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  1. #1
    Master Lancista
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    Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Although I thought I was being careful getting the engine out, unfortunately I've lost the plot on where one particular wire came from. I took the 1st photo when unassembling the steering rag joint (series 1 coupe). The wire in question is only about 10cm long and is the one that is connected to the copper plated bolt. This end of the wire has a ring connector and the other end a very narrow spade connector (that you can just about see at the left hand side of the bottom of the rag joint). The 2nd photo shows this taken off and to be honest the spade end looks like it's probably not been connected for a while as it's clogged with grime so it maybe that it never was.
    I think the wire that comes down the steering column in the 3rd photo just goes through the centre of the rag joint and then connects to the spade connected inside the brass ring shown in the 4th photo (where the spade is located at about 3 o'clock). But it's the wire that was connected to the copper bolt that's got me stumped.


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    I've had a look at the handbook, parts book and wiring diagram and to unfortunately haven't managed to figure this out. By the way the horn and the main beam flasher all worked fine before I took the engine out. Whether they will when it goes back in shortly is another thing...
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  2. #2
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    I am not really sure anymore, but I seem to recall that there is ground wire bridging the fabric disk. But as far as I recall, there are ring connectors on both sides of that wire. One ring goes under a bolt on the steering shaft (the thicker part of fork on the shaft itself, not the thinner aux cross member), while the other connects to the bolt on the other side of the disk on the linkage interconnection part to the steering box. The idea is that the fabric disk is non conductive, and the steering shaft needs a ground connection for the light flashing/horn switches on the steering wheel. The cross member on the fork (the thinner crossmember on the steering shaft end) is embedded in rubber in its seating, so it can't be counted on to conduct a ground connection.

    Hope that clears it out.

    I have seen these "pink" colored fabric disk recently showing up. I am not sure about these, but be aware that the original Lancia disks had spring steel reinforcements inside the fabric disk. They are quite important, without them the disk misses the necessary strength to withstand the forces (which can be quite heavy, for example at parking the car) of the steering wheel. The non-reinforced disks tend to desintrate after some time as a result. At least they did in my car, but that was the "beige/yellow" coloured disks that were for sale on Ebay some time ago.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  3. #3
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Looking closer at the pictures, I am convinced that "small" spade connector you see is not a spades connector at all, but the connection end of the ring connector with the ring broken off.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  4. #4
    Master Lancista
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Looking closer at the pictures, I am convinced that "small" spade connector you see is not a spades connector at all, but the connection end of the ring connector with the ring broken off.
    Marnix, you're a genius - mystery solved! I've looked more closely and you're right it's not a spade, but what's left of a broken ring connector. I'm guessing that I thought what was left around the bolt was a washer so never thought any more of it - probably it was hanging on by a thread, but just enough to keep working.

    I know what you mean about the fabric discs. This one was from Cavallito so I'm hoping it will ok, but I'll keep the old one just in case. In practice the old one was a bit frayed but the core seemed actually ok.

    On a similar vein, I've found that ebay exhaust hangers aren't a patch on the originals either - the original had a thin plate of reinforcing metal though the middle that the replacements just don't seem to have. But even these probably don't have anywhere near the stress being exerted on the steering rack.

    Thanks for your help solving this one by the way.

  5. #5
    Senior Lancista simon down's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Thanks, this was really useful. So if I have understood this correctly there is a wire with the spade female connector that goes through the insulating material (rag, though mine is polycarbon or nylotron) onto the male spade connector on the brass ring. The length of wire with the two ring connectors bridges the insulating material to provide a ground. My wire was also missing one ring connector.

    Below is a photo of the ground wire going from one side to the other. Is this the right place for it?

    Cheers
    Simon

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  6. #6
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Yes that is correct. Be it, the Original wire had just two ring connectors, no spade in between. The wire goes under the fork, not over it.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  7. #7
    Master Lancista
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    After reassembling my car (1 month to take it apart and 3 years to put it back together again), I've trying to troubleshoot a couple of niggles that aren't working. One of them is the horn. The central button on the steering wheel flashes the lights wonderfully, but the outer steering wheel ring does absolutely nothing. I'm struggling to get my head around how this steering wheel outer ring actually functions as a 'switch' for the horn. I've looked at the wiring diagram and it's not much help to be honest (which speaks volumes about my abilities!). There's only one wire running down the steering column which I understand is the light flasher. But does anyone know how the horn 'switch' gets power please? Am I missing a wire? Any reason for the cut-out notch in the brass ring in the 2nd pic?

    p.s. I also recognise that I need to re-run the wiring over the fabric collar through the hole in the collar not on the outside.
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  8. #8
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    It isn't that hard to understand, but I admit I needed some time myself to figure out, and the diagram is maybe not clear.

    One wire goes through the steering colum, over the flexibel coupling, to the rotation contact ring on the steering house. The other makes contacta to the rotation contact at the steering wheel, and the wire goes down with the wiring of the flasher/headlight wiring. BOTH are GROUND contacts, i.e. they activate by connecting the wire to the GROUND. The steering shaft is actually connected to the GROUNd by a ground bridge wire over the flexible. In the electrical diagram you can see that both activate by making contact to the ground (drawn inside the steering wheel).
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  9. #9
    Master Lancista
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Thanks Marnix - I had to come back to your explanation a couple of times before the penny has finally dropped, but now I've finally got my head around it. I'd forgotten (after reassembling it about a year ago) that there is a wire behind the back of the brass contact ring (and for some reason I'd convinced myself there wasn't). I've since taken it apart some more and sure enough the wire is there, all present and correct.

    For some reason the upper contact ring on the steering wheel it's self isn't activating it, so probably a case of sorting out that little sprung metal prong that forms some sort of contact - probably needs adjusting to bridge the gap. But by temporarily short-circuiting it, I've now successfully got the horns all work for the first time in 3 years - music to the ears!.

    Once again - huge thanks for all your help. I'm going to try and post the complete restoration on wordpress as it's been 3 years of my life and I wouldn't have got through to the other side without this forum.

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  10. #10
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone know where this wire goes?

    Most likely the horn contact inside the steering wheel top is not making contact to the sliding contact pin that rotates over the fixed contact ring. Corroded, or bend, or whatever. Can probably be fixed easily.

    Or the top is not pulled close enough (there is a strong spring pulling the top out, and that should be pulled in by the fixing of the steering column over the flexible to the steering house) for the sliding pin to make contact with the contact ring. Try pushing the steering wheel in as far as it goes and try if the contact works then.

    For your information, about the steering column / fle-flexible arrangement: the steering column contains two perpendicular end arms. One is fixed on the the steering column, and is to actually apply the steering rotation forces to the steering house (quite heavy forces on that one). There is a cross member that is inserted in the steering column end and fixed with a spring pin, and there is a silent block rubber. This cross member is there to pull the steering column towards the steering box fixing part (against the spring on the steering wheel). I had TWICE that the cross member axle that holds it in the steering column broke, so the steering column is not pulled towards the steering house, and pulling the flexible in a wave form.

    If it is not clear: the arm on the steering column serves to hold the steering rotational forces, the cross memeber to pull the steering column against the spring in the steering wheel towards to steering house.

    I did notice that the flexible in your car is indeed pulled in a wave form, so that needs checking.

    Btw, as an additional remark. The flexible is a critical part. The original from Lancia contains spring steel reinforcements inside the rubberized fabric. Aftermarket flexibles usually do not, making them not as strong, and they tend to break down quite fast. For a while, it was possible to use a similar (strong) flexible from a Mercedes classic car, but that part is no longer available anymore. Getting good flexibles is a real problem now.

    Hope it is clear.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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