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Thread: Fulvia 1,3 HF

  1. #161
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    That explains completely! Wasn't criticizing, just wondering
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    Getting down and dirty

    I have taken out front subframe and rear axle units Complete With suspension etc from my car. I have started work on the rear end, dismantled the springs and rust treated everything and bead blasted all parts ready for zink plating and paint.

    Now I have only the rear axle With hubs on my working table. To loosen the dreaded ring nuts I have welded up a hub holder tool With a rectangular 1,8m long tube.

    Also bougth the correct Outer ring nut tool from Cavalitto and made my mother of torque arms ready for the job.

    Attachment 13798Attachment 13799Attachment 13800Attachment 13801

    Before I make my first atempt at loosening, I need to reasure my self that they are right hand threaded both sides (front and rear please). I also found that my rear springs dont have the anti sqeak material between the leaves. According to the parts manual and workshop manual it shoud have. Were do I get this?

    Can anyone chime in?

    Cheers

    Tor

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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    The ring nuts finally came off, not without a fight. My first attempts was fruitless, despite the very heavy tools I used.
    They would not loosen.

    Then I set up a different aprroach, I mixed 50% acetone With 50% thin penetrating oil and applyed it inside the hub and around the outer and inner ringnut. I repeated this 3 times the following days.

    Finally I used my impact wrench, first gently heating the hubs to 60-70 Celsius and then hold the wrench hammering for a half minute or so before it loosened.

    Off they come

    I took out the berarings and cleaned and checked them, both seems reusable. Now it is rust threated and been prepared for repainting, and the discs obviously need to visit a lathe to be turned Down to the 9 med mm. HF spec.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #164
    Senior Lancista Bart Boosman's Avatar
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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    They can indeed be very tight, well done!

    I made a tool with a 1" socket connection and take tool and hub to the local Daf truck repair workshop. They have this huge impact airgun. Job done in 5 seconds, every time (so far).

    Bart

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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    Quote Originally Posted by Bart Boosman View Post
    They can indeed be very tight, well done!

    I made a tool with a 1" socket connection and take tool and hub to the local Daf truck repair workshop. They have this huge impact airgun. Job done in 5 seconds, every time (so far).

    Bart
    Bart

    I managed to loosen all ring nuts at the rear end and the two Outer ones on the front hubs. The big inner bearing retainer ring nuts was stuck until I visited at truck shop With hubs and they loosened them With the "mother of" all impact airgun.

    After cleaning, glassbeading, remachining all brake discs to HF spec (each disc lost 0,8 kg of their weigth) They now looks like this:




    Before my brake discs looked like this:


  6. #166
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    Hi

    a bit of a long shot maybe... I have friends that have a 1,3HF with a troublesome issue. They persistently got oil in the cooling water after a while. The head has been off several times, inspected, tested, no joy. New head gaskets. Water pump replaced several times. All the appropriate actions.

    They are now considering to replace the head, and maybe the cylinder block as well. I personally doubt it could be the block, that's quite unlikely. The head, there it is not uncommon that there is a tiny fracture in it, somewhere hidden inside. It even has happened that there is a problem with the quality of the aluminium, the aluminium letting fluids trough with aging.

    Problem to replace the head (and maybe the block, but I doubt that's really the problem) is that it is not clear what cylinder block and head was used for the 1,3HF. Parts catalog specify specific parts for those for the 1,3HF, but it is unlikely Lancia really made completely specific block and head for the limited 1,3HF series.

    The closest I got is that they did a few specific after treatments on the standard block and head, justifying it being a specific part number. As far as I can make out, the block is just the standard 1,3 block (with the 818.302 block number on it) maybe with a very small change or addition?. The head seems that of the 303 engine (with the valves and valve seats from the 1,3S engine), possibly with some after treatment like polishing the inlet ducts? (Enzo Altorio specifies polishing the ducts in the inlet manifold).

    Anybody knows what is specific to the block and the head of the 1,3HF to justify it being a separate part number? I am aware that specific crankshaft, con rods and pistons were used, but I doubt they made a completely different block and head for it. My guess is that it is a standard head with some after treatment. The block is probably almost completely the standard 1,3 block.

    Enzo Altorio more or less confirms this in his description of the 1,3HF engine. But it is not sufficiently detailed to know exactly what is different.

    (Note that he specifies Dellorto cabs as comment in one of the pictures, but they are definitely Solex carbs, maybe C.40, not sure about that)

    Anybody?

    Thanks, Mx
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  7. #167
    Legendary Lancista fay66's Avatar
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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Hi

    a bit of a long shot maybe... I have friends that have a 1,3HF with a troublesome issue. They persistently got oil in the cooling water after a while. The head has been off several times, inspected, tested, no joy. New head gaskets. Water pump replaced several times. All the appropriate actions.

    They are now considering to replace the head, and maybe the cylinder block as well. I personally doubt it could be the block, that's quite unlikely. The head, there it is not uncommon that there is a tiny fracture in it, somewhere hidden inside. It even has happened that there is a problem with the quality of the aluminium, the aluminium letting fluids trough with aging.

    Problem to replace the head (and maybe the block, but I doubt that's really the problem) is that it is not clear what cylinder block and head was used for the 1,3HF. Parts catalog specify specific parts for those for the 1,3HF, but it is unlikely Lancia really made completely specific block and head for the limited 1,3HF series.

    The closest I got is that they did a few specific after treatments on the standard block and head, justifying it being a specific part number. As far as I can make out, the block is just the standard 1,3 block (with the 818.302 block number on it) maybe with a very small change or addition?. The head seems that of the 303 engine (with the valves and valve seats from the 1,3S engine), possibly with some after treatment like polishing the inlet ducts? (Enzo Altorio specifies polishing the ducts in the inlet manifold).

    Anybody knows what is specific to the block and the head of the 1,3HF to justify it being a separate part number? I am aware that specific crankshaft, con rods and pistons were used, but I doubt they made a completely different block and head for it. My guess is that it is a standard head with some after treatment. The block is probably almost completely the standard 1,3 block.

    Enzo Altorio more or less confirms this in his description of the 1,3HF engine. But it is not sufficiently detailed to know exactly what is different.

    (Note that he specifies Dellorto cabs as comment in one of the pictures, but they are definitely Solex carbs, maybe C.40, not sure about that)

    Anybody?

    Thanks, Mx
    I've had oil getting in the water for over 10 years.
    All tests to try to find out why have failed, and it worried the life out of me,.
    I've tried syphoning most of the resultant 'mayonnaise' out, scooping it out but it always comes back.
    Recently instead of just flushing out the cooling system with water I used a heavy duty flush with repeated flushes.
    I then refilled with fresh antifreeze, and although I still get a little mayonnaise, it's nowhere near as much as previously.
    At no time has any water got in the oil, neither has it affected the engine or cooling performance, it is just annoying that I can't get rid of it.
    But what Marnix has written about it being age related makes a lot of sense to me.
    Since the problem arose I've been on a number of continental trips of 1000's of miles, and as anyone who knows me, I have only 1091cc and 71 horses, and I use all of them!
    I think trying to find the problem by changing major components may be a bit like trying to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
    If the problem eventually gets worse, then that's when I'll worry about it👍
    Brian

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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    Anybody knows what is specific to the block and the head of the 1,3HF to justify it being a separate part number? I am aware that specific crankshaft, con rods and pistons were used, but I doubt they made a completely different block and head for it. My guess is that it is a standard head with some after treatment. The block is probably almost completely the standard 1,3 block.


    Marnix

    I believe you are right, the heads and Blocks were probably picked and marked directly from the productlon lines after initial machining. Thereafter designated for further work and ended up as Complete HF tuned engines. With head and Block separat parts numbers from the others. I believe they picked the best parts after performing their normal quality/measurement Control.
    I confess I dont have accurate knowledge about this, but it is unlikely Lancia dident do it this way. I have at least one "evidence" from my own HF engine that support my thinking:
    My Block was still bearing the original sandcast grey engine paint, it was never repainted. On the rear side of the Block, in the middle between cylinder 3 and 4 it was a vertical yellow paintmark (Applied by a brush).
    This could be the marking after selection from the Production lines. But as I said, Im not sure of this.

    Brian
    To determine if the oil comes from the head or Block you have to dismantle your engine and pressuretest each component separatly. A major job offcourse and you are probably not reached this point yet.
    I have heard that a common point for head leakage could be the two oil supply holes for each cam (porous cast and ore Limited casting thicknes at this Points). I have also heard that spezialised Companys could repair this kind of leaks, probably a kind of re lining of the oil passages. Also heard of specialized firms that offer a kind of pressure/Chemical treatment of the Whole water side Surface inside the head. Not a cheap treatment I think.

    Tor

  9. #169
    Legendary Lancista Fulvia-hf's Avatar
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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    The head of the 1300 and 1600 HF (know only of series one cars) have markings separating them from the normal castings. 1300HF heads have the standard 818140 code cast into the front but a unique number has been stamped on the face of the distributor. This is the only tell tale I know of visible from the outside. The inside is different in that it takes 1300S size valves (one year before the 1300S was released) and that the ports are not only polished but also enlarged a bit. They look stunning! The Fanalone head also bears a stamped number on the distributor face. 1200Hf heads did not have those marks. The only way to tell a 1200HF head from a latter stock 1300 head is the casting date near the #1 exhaust port. It should read 1966.

    Cheers,
    William

    PS engine block and crankcase on 1300HF engines are similar to their normal 1300 sister AFAIK

  10. #170
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulvia 1,3 HF

    Thanks William

    that's very useful information indeed.

    Mx
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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