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Thread: thirty grand!

  1. #11
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    Re: thirty grand!

    yep it's gonna be there for a while...

  2. #12
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    Re: thirty grand!

    yet another one for $30k has popped up

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/153512930072

  3. #13
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    Re: thirty grand!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeroten View Post
    yet another one for $30k has popped up

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/153512930072

    pretty nice
    77 Scorpion

  4. #14
    Master Lancista Tony K's Avatar
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    Re: thirty grand!

    I think that is a reasonable asking price for an excellent low mileage Series 2 Montecarlo in the USA.

    At the current exchange rate, the ask of $34,000 is about 30,000.

    Typical asking prices in Italy are generally in the mid to upper teens in Euro, a few in the twenties:

    https://www.subito.it/annunci-italia...cia+montecarlo

    This particular example, aside from the ridiculous front air dam, appears to be a very low mileage and very original car with good documentation, so it is to be expected that the asking price is going to be at the high end of the range. If this car were in Italy, and truly in exceptional condition, I could see them starting out asking between 25K-30K.

    For a North American buyer though, there is added value -- when you factor in the cost of shipping and import duties of bringing one to the US from Italy, the gap starts to close.

    There is also an intangible value to the car being already here in the States and titled -- available to inspect without a costly transcontinental trip, lots of uncertainties and risk from shipping and handling eliminated, no worries or red tape associated with importing, and possibly additional third party costs eliminated too.

    And the seller is taking offers, so presumably the car may be bought for a few or even several thousand less. At the end of the day, it is easier in most cases to lower the price than raise it.

    Another factor to consider is that a rare car like this has the possibility to sell to another country. When dealing in multiple economies, a shift in currency valuations can quickly make a car on the other side of the ocean very attractive or very expensive. And we are always one political or economic moment from that possibility.

    So when you are selling a rare car that trades on a global market, it makes sense to price it for the market where they are most valuable and there is the most demand (Europe>US in this case). It also makes sense to therefore price it in the local currency of that market, as the values of old cars tend to fluctuate with less deviation than the values of currencies. But then what does a seller do when seller and car are not in said market? You price it in your local currency and price it high. That gives you both room to negotiate (it's easy to come down on a price) and a buffer in the event your currency starts to fall. In this case, if the dollar weakens against the Euro, that Monte will start to look attractive to European buyers. If the dollar strengthens against the Euro, there is room to negotiate (and it could be a lot) and buyers on both continents have options. And as it sits now, it is priced competitively against buying a similar car in Europe (taking condition into account) and importing it to the U.S.

    Lastly, there is the phrase with unique cars: "Find me another." It's probably the only 15K mile S2 on the market. It's one of very few in North America. If you're going to ask a price, ask high. With a unique example there is no market to support or suggest a price, so you ask all the money in the world that is reasonable, see what comes out of the woodwork, and negotiate a price with the best buyer. If you start out by asking less, you might be leaving a lot of money on the table (which is not fair to you as the seller), and you also have the potential to negatively affect the more typical examples on the market.

    Over the years, I've sold a couple of rare, highly original collectible cars to people that I probably shouldn't have. Cars that survived for decades nearly intact to how they left the factory, very complete cars with notable "unobtainium" pieces intact, full service history, etc. Things that collectors want, but that are not on the radar of the average or new-to-the-breed enthusiast. And of course those cars, which today would be deemed "survivors" and "incredibly intact," were stripped of those details and histories by their loving new owners, and turned into just another average example of the breed.

    It is absolutely true that when someone owns a car, it is their car to do with whatever they want. On the other hand, some people view themselves as custodians of collectible cars and seek to preserve them. So if you have a collectible car or unique example with parts on it that other restorers would pay an arm and a leg for, how do you ensure the car will go to the 'right' buyer, someone who will appreciate what it is? You raise the asking price. This keeps the newbies and the cheapies away, and when the right 'custodian' comes along, you make the price more attractive to them and arrive at a mutually beneficial deal. So I understand the asking price on this nice S2 Monte, and hope they find the right buyer.

    Cheers,

    Tony K.
    Last edited by Tony K; 6th June 2019 at 04:23 PM.

  5. #15
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    Re: thirty grand!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony K View Post
    So when you are selling a rare car that trades on a global market, it makes sense to price it for the market where they are most valuable and there is the most demand (Europe>US in this case). It also makes sense to therefore price it in the local currency of that market, as the values of old cars tend to fluctuate with less deviation than the values of currencies.
    I agree with many of the points you made and find this discussion interesting. The big issue at hand, I think, is that the car isn't really trading on a large scale on the global market. Why is that? Why wouldn't Euro dealers start importing cheap Scorpions from the U.S. and resell them at a profit? Because unless a dramatic shift in currency happens, as you mention could, obviously they aren't seeing enough profit to be made for whatever reason. Why that is, I don't know.

    But I do know that here in the U.S., the Scorpion is still a pretty niche car. The Montecarlo even more so. So if someone on a budget, which is most Scorpion owners, has a choice between an excellent Montecarlo at $30k or a very good Scorpion at $12k (especially if the output has been increased, bumpers swapped, etc), the Monte's going to be a tough sell. A 30% premium for a genuine Monte is one thing, a doubling in price is another.

  6. #16
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    Re: thirty grand!

    I concur, this is a great discussion!

    These cars are definitely niche. They're not hugely valuable.
    I also own a Ducati Paso 750, and it's in a similar boat.

    I'm enjoying watching the prices climb on scorpions, and I don't believe they'll go down as Lancia's rally heritage continues to increase it's fanbase thanks to the modern internet.

    It'll be interesting to see how things go with mine once it's running... I expect it'll be a hit at Radwood!

  7. #17
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    Re: thirty grand!

    Quote Originally Posted by RJ80 View Post
    Why wouldn't Euro dealers start importing cheap Scorpions from the U.S. and resell them at a profit? ...

    But I do know that here in the U.S., the Scorpion is still a pretty niche car. The Montecarlo even more so.
    I suspect it would be tough to sell a Scorpion in Europe -- even one that had been modified.
    Ed Levin
    Fulvia 1,6 HF

  8. #18
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    Talking Re: thirty grand!

    Quote Originally Posted by lancia_x120 View Post
    That interior is a night mare
    that is being polite
    77 Scorpion

  9. #19
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    Re: thirty grand!

    Quote Originally Posted by scuderia View Post
    that is being polite
    one of the key reasons I took mine on. I'd rather buy a scorp that needs mechanical help than one that has cosmetic issues.

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