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Thread: Help! Misfire!

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    Help! Misfire!

    Hi all.

    Everything has been going well with the little Fulv, but today when I tried to go out for a run, she seemed to be only firing on 3 cyclinders.

    Anything common I should check for?

    Cheers
    Robbie
    Fulvia 1.3 Rallye 1968

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    Legendary Lancista lancialulu's Avatar
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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Change the spark plugs!!

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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Quote Originally Posted by lancialulu View Post
    Change the spark plugs!!
    Its definitely a good idea as a first step as I dont know how old the ones in the car are.... Do we need anything special for a 1.3 or are they readily available types?

    A quick Google says NGK BP7ES? Shall I order 4 and swap em in.... Any gapping reqs or just wang em in?
    Fulvia 1.3 Rallye 1968

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    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Below spark plug table. Whatever you do, do NOT fit the Champion plugs. They are rubbish (confirmed by several). NGK is good. Best is to use the Iridium spark plugs, they last longer and are more proof against fouling. Iridium equivalent from NGK for the BPR7ES is BPR7EIX.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Below spark plug table. Whatever you do, do NOT fit the Champion plugs. They are rubbish (confirmed by several). NGK is good. Best is to use the Iridium spark plugs, they last longer and are more proof against fouling. Iridium equivalent from NGK for the BPR7ES is BPR7EIX.
    Thanks can iridium be fitted regardless of your ignition system?

    Thanks for chart, so I can use a gap of .55 - .65mm on the normal NGKs
    Fulvia 1.3 Rallye 1968

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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    The Iridiums are recommended for electronic ignition systems (like the 123 ignition, one of the best investments you can do imho) but there isn't any reason why they wouldn't work as well on the standard ignition. The iridium allows to have a much finer point, which results in a higher electrical field concentration (see electrical field theory, that's why lighting falls in most on pointed metal objects) and hence in a better and stronger spark. The Iridiums are not adjustable, nor do they need to be adjusted.

    But there is nothing wrong with fitting the standard BP(R)7ES spark plugs. It all depends also on the state of the engine: I used to have a quite worn out engine with a large oil consumption, which made the spark plugs foul badly. When I switched to the 123 ignition with iridium plugs, I never had any trouble after that, even on the worn out engine. Good operation of spark plugs depend quite largely on how "clean" the engine runs (and that depends largely on the correct setting of idle mixture and possibly on a lot of oil being burned as I had before my engine was rebuild).

    The old ignition system of the Fulvia is a bit of a weak point of the car (not Lancia's fault, it was what was available in those days). You got the contact breaker that wears out and (mostly underestimated) needs to be adjusted correctly; you got the capacitor that fails without it being apparent and gives a lot of very strange effects; and most of all, the mechanical dynamic advance with weights and springs, that do not age very well after 40 - 60 years of age.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Legendary Lancista lancialulu's Avatar
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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    I used to have a quite worn out engine with a large oil consumption, which made the spark plugs foul badly. When I switched to the 123 ignition with iridium plugs, I never had any trouble after that, even on the worn out engine. Good operation of spark plugs depend quite largely on how "clean" the engine runs (and that depends largely on the correct setting of idle mixture and possibly on a lot of oil being burned as I had before my engine was rebuild).
    You did not want to follow Marnix before the engine rebuild cough cough.!!!!

    Why BPR7ES and not BP7ES??

    Tim

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    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    The resistor-less versus resistor spark plug has been the subject of a lot of debate. Two advices on the Internet below.

    With modern ignition systems there is no advantage it seems to use spark plugs without resistor, as the voltage is quite high and the duration of the spark is short. On older systems like the Fulvia, it may not be a good idea to use spark plugs with resistor. The resistor was added to reduce EMI interference (cracking sound in your radio). As far as I know, the Iridium is only available WITH resistor (the idea is they be used on MODERN ignition systems I suppose). I have 123 ignition fitted, and the BPR7EIX works very well, with the resitor. If you keep the original ignition, and not going to use the iridium plugs, you probably can best fit the plugs without resistor.

    "Using a non resistor spark plug on a system designed for resistor plugs will weaken your spark and therefore negatively affect power output of the engine. The resistance of the plug and that of the electrode gap add onto each other. Our coils and ignition amplifiers are designed around that total resistant. The resistance determines the strength of spark that can manage to jump the gap. If the total resistance is reduced by either reducing electrode gap or putting a spark plug with lower resistance, a spark will jump the gap before building to formidable strength. This means a weak and early spark. If your spark is weak and mis-timed for the specific variables pertaining, you obviously lose engine efficiency and power.
    Using a resistor spark plug on and ignition system designed for non-resistor spark plugs also negatively affects power output. The strongest spark possible on the system might fail to jump the gap at all if the resistance is insurmountable. Worst case scenario, non-start. This can also blow coils as their charge builds to extremes they were not designed for.
    The best is to use the specified plug and gap for the engine."

    "...has no bearing on engine performance, other than the resistor lowers the current that can flow through the arc when the plug fires, that extends the duration of the arc. which is a good thing with CDI ignition that has very very brief spark duration. also helps prolong electrode life.

    destroys CDI and certain other ignition systems if they're designed for resistors in the plug. most CDI units require a resistor somewhere. this i learnt the hard way on a motorbike with CDI when the boot broke and i just stuck the wire directly on the plug. it lasted about ten minutes, needed a new module.
    causes interference if the leads, plug boot or plug are meant to be resistive and aren't.
    its a good habit to use them anyway."
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Luckily I dont have a radio.

    I believe my engine was actually rebuilt in Belgium (along with the car) before coming to France....
    Fulvia 1.3 Rallye 1968

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    Re: Help! Misfire!

    Iridium fine-wire plugs can be used with any ignition system.
    Ed Levin
    Fulvia 1,6 HF

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