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Thread: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

  1. #21
    Active Lancista Akonaut's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    such a simple design, with no sign of wear i'd be perplexed too. where does the adjustment screw take up the slack in the assembly?
    The distance between the vertical and the horizontal axles is closer than the sum oft the inner radiusses of gear and worm. The gear in the Vertical shaft is located above the horizontal axle. When you turn in the adjustment bolt you basically run the Vertical gear into the worm gear bringing their teeth closer together. You can overdo it and block the gear. Ich the Play is set too tight you will Terminate the Steering box.

    Was this understandable?

    (Sorry for Typing errors, working with my iPad and this f***** Auto correction is set for German and Unterstands nothin') No Complaint nonetheless, Having a good Time in NY at the moment

    Hubert

    PS als you See, we use Capital letters much more offen than in British English/American English
    Last edited by Akonaut; 22nd October 2018 at 10:11 PM.
    Flaminia GT 3C, Flaminia Convertibile 3C, Flaminia Coupé-project-, Flavia Convertibile 1.8, Fulvia Sport 1.3S, A112 Abarth 70HP, Mercedes Benz Unimog U406

  2. #22
    Legendary Lancista bmarler's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    ich the play...
    perfectly understandable. then tims box has to have either a worn bearing or the gear(worm) is hiding the wear very well. interesting as there's ample room for adjustment.
    bmarler/
    1967 fulvia sport zagato
    1961 appia vignale convert.

  3. #23
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Maybe a bit on setting the adjustment screw of the steering box. There seems to be some misunderstanding about this.
    The right setting applies ONLY to the straight ahead position: it is in that position that there should be only a marginal play, just enough to make that the gears don't lock. In any other position than straight ahead, there WILL be rather considerable play. It doesn't matter that there is more play in a turn, as the wheels will give some force going back to straight ahead in a turn, which will cancel the play in the box.

    Actually, the adjustment screw does not as much PUSH the central gear down, but the central gear is HANGING from the adjustment screw with the clips (only when on a bump in the road or whatever would push the central gear upwards, then the adjustment will act as stop).

    To set the adjustment screw correctly:

    1. turn the adjustment screw slightly out in case the adjustment screw was too tightly screwed in, or even fully in
    2. make sure the STEERING BOX (not the steering wheel!) is exactly in the straight ahead position; the steering wheel can not be relied on, as it can be positioned in any position on the steering shaft. We are also assuming the alignment of the wheels is done properly.
    3. turn in the adjustment screw fully in (but do NOT force!)
    4. turn out again about half a turn to 3/4 turn

    It may be required to activate steering a bit by gently turning the steering wheel a bit left and right all the time while doing the adjustment, to arrange the central gear to settle each time at a slightly lower or upper position. Btw, I do the adjustment with the front wheels raised, not touching the ground. Otherwise the steering is too heavy by the wheels resisting (like the heavy steering when parking).

    By no means use the steering box on the road with the adjustment screw all the way in: the gears may lock, and there have been instances that the steering box housing has cracked from the resulting forces doing so.

    With the adjustment screw now set approximately right, drive the car, and feel the steering wheel for too light or too heavy. Adjust the adjustment screw a little bit for the desired feel (like with 1/10 of a turn each time) till it feels right. In = harder, out = lighter. You may need to have to to do this several consecutive times till it feels right, and after a while you may have to readjust a tiny bit, as the whole thing settles down after driving for a while.

    Make sure the box is full of gear oil (up to the underside of the filling hole). Under no circumstances put grease in it (like you wouldn't put grease in your gearbox instead of oil)
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  4. #24
    Legendary Lancista lancialulu's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Maybe a bit on setting the adjustment screw of the steering box. There seems to be some misunderstanding about this.
    The right setting applies ONLY to the straight ahead position: it is in that position that there should be only a marginal play, just enough to make that the gears don't lock. In any other position than straight ahead, there WILL be rather considerable play. It doesn't matter that there is more play in a turn, as the wheels will give some force going back to straight ahead in a turn, which will cancel the play in the box.

    Actually, the adjustment screw does not as much PUSH the central gear down, but the central gear is HANGING from the adjustment screw with the clips (only when on a bump in the road or whatever would push the central gear upwards, then the adjustment will act as stop).

    To set the adjustment screw correctly:

    1. turn the adjustment screw slightly out in case the adjustment screw was too tightly screwed in, or even fully in
    2. make sure the STEERING BOX (not the steering wheel!) is exactly in the straight ahead position; the steering wheel can not be relied on, as it can be positioned in any position on the steering shaft. We are also assuming the alignment of the wheels is done properly.
    3. turn in the adjustment screw fully in (but do NOT force!)
    4. turn out again about half a turn to 3/4 turn

    It may be required to activate steering a bit by gently turning the steering wheel a bit left and right all the time while doing the adjustment, to arrange the central gear to settle each time at a slightly lower or upper position. Btw, I do the adjustment with the front wheels raised, not touching the ground. Otherwise the steering is too heavy by the wheels resisting (like the heavy steering when parking).

    By no means use the steering box on the road with the adjustment screw all the way in: the gears may lock, and there have been instances that the steering box housing has cracked from the resulting forces doing so.

    With the adjustment screw now set approximately right, drive the car, and feel the steering wheel for too light or too heavy. Adjust the adjustment screw a little bit for the desired feel (like with 1/10 of a turn each time) till it feels right. In = harder, out = lighter. You may need to have to to do this several consecutive times till it feels right, and after a while you may have to readjust a tiny bit, as the whole thing settles down after driving for a while.

    Make sure the box is full of gear oil (up to the underside of the filling hole). Under no circumstances put grease in it (like you wouldn't put grease in your gearbox instead of oil)
    All good stuff but this is not how the repair manual says to adjust. 00/14 says screw on the adjuster and back off 1/6th turn and lock. This is what I do.

  5. #25
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Quote Originally Posted by lancialulu View Post
    All good stuff but this is not how the repair manual says to adjust. 00/14 says screw on the adjuster and back off 1/6th turn and lock. This is what I do.
    Fine. I like to be able to set it that it "feels" right. The initial opening of half a turn to 3/4 was maybe on the large side and stated to prevent people without experience to not open it up sufficiently, and have "locked" gears when test driving. By doing it incrementally till it feels right, you will probably end up near that value. But I found it is a bit hard that way on my car, the wheels not coming back automatically in a turn when I release the steering wheel. It is probably due to the steering box not being "new" and the gears having slightly been worn.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Just a small addition: I specify a larger than normal initial turning out for another reason. The 1/6 out is very much assuming the steering box is exactly in (it own) straight ahead position when adjusting and probably also assumes that the wheels have been perfectly aligned as well (aligned with the steering box). If somebody without the necessary experience sets it to 1/6 turned out with a steering box NOT set to its perfect straight ahead position, it may get tighter when turning and STILL lock the gears and cause damage. I am trying to make sure people don't break there boxes by my ill founded advice here. You are hardly a reference towards the average experience level here (meaning there are few around with your level of experience)
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  7. #27
    Legendary Lancista lancialulu's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Just a small addition: I specify a larger than normal initial turning out for another reason. The 1/6 out is very much assuming the steering box is exactly in (it own) straight ahead position when adjusting and probably also assumes that the wheels have been perfectly aligned as well (aligned with the steering box). If somebody without the necessary experience sets it to 1/6 turned out with a steering box NOT set to its perfect straight ahead position, it may get tighter when turning and STILL lock the gears and cause damage. I am trying to make sure people don't break there boxes by my ill founded advice here. You are hardly a reference towards the average experience level here (meaning there are few around with your level of experience)
    Marnix thanks for the compliment! I was agreeing with you on set up but pointing out the factory method of adjustment. Wheels not returning to center can be a mix of stiff track rod ends (any or all of the 4), stiff upper and lower ball joints, incorrect toe out and castor angle which is fixed on a Fulvia unless you have adjustable wishbones and frankly you would not want to go messing with the factory suspension geometry. Well I wont!

  8. #28
    Master Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Where did you manage to find a seal kit for the box? I'd like to purchase one if someone has them in stock.

  9. #29
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Quote Originally Posted by lancialulu View Post
    Wheels not returning to center can be a mix of stiff track rod ends (any or all of the 4), stiff upper and lower ball joints, incorrect toe out and castor angle which is fixed on a Fulvia unless you have adjustable wishbones and frankly you would not want to go messing with the factory suspension geometry. Well I wont!
    All the rod ends, and suspension balls have been replaced not that long ago. It is just the steering box. When setting that a bit less tight than normal, the car returns to straight ahead, no problem. So it can only be the box I think.

    I know it is not in pristine condition. I got my car long ago from the States; it is one that was imported there directly back in '68 and at a later time some idiot over there - that I privately call "the butcher" - has been working on it. His primary tool seems to have been a large, heavy hammer. There where marks and scorns everywhere, including on internal parts like in the steering box. I was intending to replace it by a box in better condition I got, but there seems to be always a carb job intervening
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  10. #30
    Active Lancista Akonaut's Avatar
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    Re: Fulviasport 1.3S 2.S drivetrain questions and issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Taddraughn View Post
    Where did you manage to find a seal kit for the box? I'd like to purchase one if someone has them in stock.
    Found that in my inventory. Sorry, no supplier known to me.

    Hubert
    Flaminia GT 3C, Flaminia Convertibile 3C, Flaminia Coupé-project-, Flavia Convertibile 1.8, Fulvia Sport 1.3S, A112 Abarth 70HP, Mercedes Benz Unimog U406

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