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Thread: First Startup

  1. #31
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    Re: First Startup

    Michael, congratulations on the arrival of your baby. Now the fun begins. It will certainly be gratifying as you complete each task and bring the car to where you eventually want it.

    How did you find the car? Did anyone have a look at it before you purchased? Just curious as I am on the hunt for one as well.

  2. #32
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    Re: First Startup

    Quote Originally Posted by 4thinline View Post
    Michael, congratulations on the arrival of your baby. Now the fun begins. It will certainly be gratifying as you complete each task and bring the car to where you eventually want it.

    How did you find the car? Did anyone have a look at it before you purchased? Just curious as I am on the hunt for one as well.
    My car was advertised on Hemmings' website. I talked to the dealer in the Netherlands and bought it unseen. They have another one listed now. Bulent and Jan are pretty decent sorts. I think they were straight with me - 90%. The other10% I'd chalk up to car dealers and cultural differences. The ocean transport was very easy, but the shippers work with a company in Houston that is just awful. I would say I might buy another car from these guys. It might we worth having someone independent go look at it, or if you're planning a trip. The problem is, their cars are priced right and go fast. Most of the cars I've seen in the US are Series II, which I have nothing against. I just like the look of the Series 1 cars. I'd love to have a 68 Zagato, but I'll keep dreaming of that. I will say, my car is fresh out of Italy in 2018. Any cars that have been driven year 'round in the Netherlands must be rough. Mine is very solid (so far). I'd give it a Hagerty rating of 3 - maybe 2.8, but it will be a show stopper a year from now.

    Now that I mention it, in addition to a horrible Customs Broker who was also supposed to be the US transport, but that's another story, the DMV in Oklahoma have been a royal pain in the tuchus. I started early Thursday with all my papers - Title, EPA, DOT, Customs, insurance, etc. and tag agency had to copy everything and send it to Oklahoma City. They said they'd call me. About 2:00pm they called to say everything is okay, they just need the title translated into English to be sure there aren't any leins against it (from Italy, from 1968?). I'd been warned about this, so it wasn't a shock - just an irritant. Two hours later with Google Translate, I went back to the tag agency with my translation. They said they'd send it off to OKC, but I needed to give them all the papers from the morning, again. Oklahoma City doesn't keep anything - neither do they.
    Friday morning, the tag agency called to say, OKC couldn't read the copy of the title. I took it to a friend's office who has a really fancy copier and copied the title and sent it off again. Remember - it's in italian, which they can't read anyway (even though I gave them the translation). At 4:15 Friday, I received a call from the tag agency. Everything's fine now. All I have to do is surrender my original Italian title. Hell, no. I'm not going to do that. It's part of the provenance and an historical artifact that should remain with the car. Tomorrow, I'll be on the phone with my political representatives. The girl in the tag agency said, if I don't surrender the title, I'll never be able to register my car in Oklahoma. Fortunately, never is my specialty.

    Oh, I almost forgot - they are also planning to charge me hundreds of dollars in penalties because I didn't register the car within 30 days of the bill of sale. It took 8 weeks to get it here from the Netherlands. They're from the government. They're not happy until we're not happy. It's just stupid annoyances. It's interesting that it was much easier to get the car from the Netherlands to Jacksonville, Florida than from Jacksonville to Tulsa. And, it was easier to get it through US customs, than the Oklahoma DMV. Okay, I'm done ranting.

  3. #33
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: First Startup

    Michael

    while probably not a nice remark to say to you, I am kind of relieved that even in the US you have bureaucratic hassle. I thought our Belgian administration had exclusive rights on that...

    They are masters at setting up "mission impossible" scenarios over here. Like X saying "you first need a form from Y before we can do that". Then Y saying "we can't proceed until we got the form from X first". Me, in desperation: "could you talk between each other, to see who's going to take the first step?" Reply, from both sides, rather enthusiastically: "certainly not, that's not our job! You have to arrange these forms yourself personally!"

    For the title: we have something here that is called a "legalized copy" (somebody in administration verifying that the copy has the authentic contents of the original, and putting some kind of impressive stamp on it). In some cases, they would accept that as in lieu of the original (most likely not until a lot of bargaining).

    We have some of these "mission impossible" "time overdue" penalties here as well. At moments I resign myself to accepting those to be some additional tax income for them...

    Good luck with the administration. Sometimes getting through the administration seems like a tougher proposition than restoring the car.

    [Anyway, what where you thinking of? Buying a European car? Most politically incorrect! (I am joking, your President has just been on visit here, claiming Europe is a hostile "country" from his viewpoint. So I couldn't resist).]

    Mx
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  4. #34
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    Re: First Startup

    Michael, sorry but I had to smile as I read your reply. It is the same everywhere it seems. Bureaucrats needing to justify their jobs so make everything look like it is a Herculean task. If they can squeeze a few more dollars out of your pocket, so much the better.

    Good to know that the dealer was on the up and up for the most part and you would be willing to work with them again.

    Is your car a light blue colour? I saw a '68 1.3 Rallye advertised on Hemmings. Or maybe that is the one that they advertised next.

    Looking forward to your continued posts and progress.

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    Re: First Startup

    I can relate to your transport frustrations. Mine started in Italy when they changed the export rules right as I was arranging shipment and no one knew what to do. Luckily my guy on the ground was great and definitely earned his money sorting everything out. Once the car got to Baltimore the forwarders got stupid and couldn't figure out how to clear the car. It was in port a week before they could get the paperwork sorted out. Eventually, the car showed up at my house in perfect order.

    I went through Transglobal Auto Logistics and got a very good price for door-to-door transport. The European end was bad and the customs clearance was sloppy but overall I'd probably use them again as I'd know that I need to be more involved with pushing the process along. I thought I'd just send my check and sit back and wait - not the case!

    However, I live in Illinois which is the land of inefficiency and I was worried about getting the car registered. i called up the main DMV office and read their grey market documentation which did include a notarized, translated copy of the bill of sale and some other document. When I showed up the the DMV at the capital I had all my ducks in a row and got the plates no problem. The lady told me that most people have to come back two or three times because they don't have all their documentation.

    Anyway, the hassle was worth it as I'm sure you are finding out.

    -Mike

  6. #36
    Legendary Lancista 1,6 HF's Avatar
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    Re: First Startup

    Make photocopies (or color scans) of the original Italian docs, and "surrender" those instead of the originals.
    Ed Levin
    Fulvia 1,6 HF

  7. #37
    Senior Lancista bmarler's Avatar
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    Re: First Startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Krafty View Post
    My car was advertised on Hemmings' website. I talked to the dealer in the Netherlands and bought it unseen. They have another one listed now. Bulent and Jan are pretty decent sorts. I think they were straight with me - 90%. The other10% I'd chalk up to car dealers and cultural differences. The ocean transport was very easy, but the shippers work with a company in Houston that is just awful. I would say I might buy another car from these guys. It might we worth having someone independent go look at it, or if you're planning a trip. The problem is, their cars are priced right and go fast. Most of the cars I've seen in the US are Series II, which I have nothing against. I just like the look of the Series 1 cars. I'd love to have a 68 Zagato, but I'll keep dreaming of that. I will say, my car is fresh out of Italy in 2018. Any cars that have been driven year 'round in the Netherlands must be rough. Mine is very solid (so far). I'd give it a Hagerty rating of 3 - maybe 2.8, but it will be a show stopper a year from now.

    Now that I mention it, in addition to a horrible Customs Broker who was also supposed to be the US transport, but that's another story, the DMV in Oklahoma have been a royal pain in the tuchus. I started early Thursday with all my papers - Title, EPA, DOT, Customs, insurance, etc. and tag agency had to copy everything and send it to Oklahoma City. They said they'd call me. About 2:00pm they called to say everything is okay, they just need the title translated into English to be sure there aren't any leins against it (from Italy, from 1968?). I'd been warned about this, so it wasn't a shock - just an irritant. Two hours later with Google Translate, I went back to the tag agency with my translation. They said they'd send it off to OKC, but I needed to give them all the papers from the morning, again. Oklahoma City doesn't keep anything - neither do they.
    Friday morning, the tag agency called to say, OKC couldn't read the copy of the title. I took it to a friend's office who has a really fancy copier and copied the title and sent it off again. Remember - it's in italian, which they can't read anyway (even though I gave them the translation). At 4:15 Friday, I received a call from the tag agency. Everything's fine now. All I have to do is surrender my original Italian title. Hell, no. I'm not going to do that. It's part of the provenance and an historical artifact that should remain with the car. Tomorrow, I'll be on the phone with my political representatives. The girl in the tag agency said, if I don't surrender the title, I'll never be able to register my car in Oklahoma. Fortunately, never is my specialty.

    Oh, I almost forgot - they are also planning to charge me hundreds of dollars in penalties because I didn't register the car within 30 days of the bill of sale. It took 8 weeks to get it here from the Netherlands. They're from the government. They're not happy until we're not happy. It's just stupid annoyances. It's interesting that it was much easier to get the car from the Netherlands to Jacksonville, Florida than from Jacksonville to Tulsa. And, it was easier to get it through US customs, than the Oklahoma DMV. Okay, I'm done ranting.

    not all states are tough. (well, maybe it's just the location you go to.) i bought my appia from the widow of a collector. the car had been sitting in the garage since his passing, about ten years or so. when we went to the local agency, she came along with what i thought was the washington state title. it turned out she had a signed california pink slip from a prior owner from 15 years earlier, the title was never transferred into her husbands name. i was horrified, here i was with a pink slip signed to a dead guy from 15 years ago. but the agent just took the pink slip and asked me, "you want to put new plates and tabs on it now?"
    bmarler/
    1967 fulvia sport zagato
    1961 appia vignale convert.

  8. #38
    Active Lancista Castagnero's Avatar
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    Re: First Startup

    Quote Originally Posted by Krafty View Post
    ......
    .........
    ...........
    Okay, I'm done ranting.
    What a frustration Michael! Can imagine those people and all that paperwork is the last you want when you finally got the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4thinline View Post
    Michael, sorry but I had to smile as I read your reply. It is the same everywhere it seems. Bureaucrats needing to justify their jobs so make everything look like it is a Herculean task. If they can squeeze a few more dollars out of your pocket, so much the better.

    Good to know that the dealer was on the up and up for the most part and you would be willing to work with them again.

    Is your car a light blue colour? I saw a '68 1.3 Rallye advertised on Hemmings. Or maybe that is the one that they advertised next.

    Looking forward to your continued posts and progress.
    I bought mine there also.
    My car sat next to the red rallye from Michael when I was inspecting mine.
    I am not entirely sure I will work with them again.
    No, the light blue 1.3 rallye is already sold to another customer.. (Its not advertised any more)
    Last edited by Castagnero; 16th July 2018 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #39
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    Re: First Startup

    After a call to my state senator this morning, I was able to speak to some adults in the room who were able to help me with the title issue. They wanted to put a notation about the historic nature of the original Italian title, then I was able to get my license tag late this afternoon. With all the fees, this flimsy piece of aluminum cost about the same as ocean freight for the car. Next year, it'll be about 30 bucks. So, the good news is, the light at the end of the tunnel was the exit, not a train coming the other direction. The junior varsity I was dealing with at the tag agency told me I could keep my original Italian title only if I never wanted to register the car in Oklahoma. It's just so unnecessarily complicated. The funny thing is, since I finally acquired my license tag late this afternoon, and we're leaving town for two and a half weeks in the morning. So, the Fulvia will be getting plenty of rest next to my 1951 Chevy pickup for several days. I will be visiting Mr. Fiat in Atlanta for some pedal pads, suspension rubber do-dads and one or two other widgits while in Atlanta.

    An interesting note for Americans wanting to import European cars is, get two bills of sale, one for your records and one dated about 45-60 days after. Oklahoma (and other states I suspect) is very firm about registering cars within 30 days after the date of the bill of sale. In my case, 30 days after the bill of sale, my car was just being loaded on the ship in Antwerp. It's all going to be better from here.

    Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement.

    M

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