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  1. #631
    Senior Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    About lights not showing bright versus generator/alternator:

    1. The brightness of the headlights (if we are talking comparing with the same type for different setups, so not normal versus H-type) depends in the first place on the voltage supplied to them. The generator regulator regulates to about 14V (that's the normal voltage) same as does the regulator of the alternator. So there isn't going to be a difference in brightness of the lights with alternator.
    2. there is a difference at slow running. If you got a car with generator running on idle and go out to check on the lights, you will see the lights less bright. That is because the generator isn't up to bringing the voltage up to 14V at idle RPM. The alternator does better in that department (one of the reasons why car manufacturers changed over to alternators when reliable semiconductor power diodes became available for them), normally going to 14V even at idle RPM.
    3 As Tim says, the fulvia wiring leaves a lot to be desired in terms of parasite resistances in switches, wires, (corroded) connectors, and earth connections, sometimes dropping the voltage across lights etc (especially devices that draw significant current) with 1V over even worse. I have no doubt that when they were new, if wasn't as bad as now about 50 years later.
    It's been a while since I've driven the car, but I just remember the headlight brightness changed with RPM of the engine. I'm sure the problem was mostly not the dynamo since it was charging the battery to some degree at the time. I still had instances where I would drive the car for a bit, then leave it sitting for a few days off and it would not crank after that without charging, so there may also be some parasitic draw issues present somewhere (or maybe even a bad battery. As many times as it died, it cannot be in great shape). Can't really test any of that out at the moment since my car is apart so it's a problem for "future Austin" as I like to say.

    In any case it will be nice to have a little extra power on hand though if I decide to add some additional electrical components in the future (think EFI related components).

  2. #632
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Be careful assuming you just need more electrical power. Sometimes it is just the grounds and simple stuff due to age. I'll admit I do not have the skills you have shown in this thread but I've been playing with cars and keeping them running for over 45 years. My signature line shows the fleet in my garage that my wife and I keep running (up to and including a few engine rebuilds... but we don't do body work). I had some strange electrical behaviour on our Fulvia and documented it here for others to learn from my experience:

    http://www.lancisti.net/forum/showth...rical-Behavior

    HTH
    Life's too short to drive boring cars. Nothing boring: 1968 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3, 1969 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 1973 Opel GT, 1973 Porsche 914, 1973 Triumph TR6, 1979 Triumph Spitfire, 1966 Lotus Elan, 2005 Lotus Elise, 2003 Jaguar XKR

  3. #633
    Senior Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DrinkMan View Post
    Be careful assuming you just need more electrical power. Sometimes it is just the grounds and simple stuff due to age. I'll admit I do not have the skills you have shown in this thread but I've been playing with cars and keeping them running for over 45 years. My signature line shows the fleet in my garage that my wife and I keep running (up to and including a few engine rebuilds... but we don't do body work). I had some strange electrical behaviour on our Fulvia and documented it here for others to learn from my experience:

    http://www.lancisti.net/forum/showth...rical-Behavior

    HTH
    That's quite the fleet! I can't imagine keeping track of that many cars and keeping them all maintained. I also love that you say "my wife and I". I don't believe I'll ever get my fiancé to help me with the fulvia lol. She loves old cars but has no desire to wrench on them; maybe it's because I look like a coal miner every time I come back from working on mine....

    Anyway, thanks for linking your thread; I've read through it just now and will keep it in mind when I get to a point where I can start working through the electrical system. I really do appreciate all the advice you guys that have much more experience than me give. It's not like I never did anything mechanical before I worked on this car, but a lot of the things I've done (and will probably have to do) in this thread are new to me so it helps a lot to have people drop little tips or tell me I did something wrong, etc.

  4. #634
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Taddraughn View Post
    That's quite the fleet! I can't imagine keeping track of that many cars and keeping them all maintained. I also love that you say "my wife and I". I don't believe I'll ever get my fiancé to help me with the fulvia lol. She loves old cars but has no desire to wrench on them; maybe it's because I look like a coal miner every time I come back from working on mine....
    .
    First have your fiance do clean tasks like helping to get tools out and sort them. Then more and more complex tasks. Here is my wife changing the master cylinder on our Alfa (floor mounted pedals):

    Life's too short to drive boring cars. Nothing boring: 1968 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3, 1969 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 1973 Opel GT, 1973 Porsche 914, 1973 Triumph TR6, 1979 Triumph Spitfire, 1966 Lotus Elan, 2005 Lotus Elise, 2003 Jaguar XKR

  5. #635
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    I wasn't implying I am against changing to an alternator really. I am just stating the brightness of the headlights won't change with an alternator, except for that lower voltage at idle RPM (and slightly above). At one point I considered changing to alternator myself, one of the reasons being a dynamo seems to require maintenance sooner. In the end, I decided that the dynamo does fine. I have several spare dynamos laying around.

    I DID change the dynamo regulator to an electronic equivalent however. The original is really a relay switching the stator winding current quite rapidly on (to full current) and off again. That relay will one day have reached its limit of switchings, and be stuck either in off (so no electrical power anymore from the dynamo) or a lot worse, in the fully on position (making the dynamo stator winding burn out). The electronic version does not do the crude "on-off" switching but regulates stator winding current in a continuous way in function of the power needed. It also picks up activating the dynamo at a lower RPM (be it still not at idle). The electronic regulator is more gentle on the dynamo (and the battery for that matter) also protecting against overcurrents.
    The dynamo only gives 30A (which makes for 14V x 30A = 420W in theory, but better count on something like 300W). Unless you intend to drive for long periods with all 4 headlights on (in Europe we rarely drive with all four on for longer times), there isn't a problem of electrical power deficiency really. Other appliances added such as an electric fuel pump, a car radio (in those early days, a car radio worked with radio tubes!), etc are quite marginal in power consumption compared to the headlights (unless you intend to add a strong radio broadcast station in your car).

    But anyway, if you like the alternator setup better, go for it.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  6. #636
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DrinkMan View Post
    First have your fiance do clean tasks like helping to get tools out and sort them. Then more and more complex tasks. Here is my wife changing the master cylinder on our Alfa (floor mounted pedals):

    I am sending this picture to my wife, as a hint. I somehow doubt my wife will take the bait however. My wife and I have a different view on those classic cars: my wife feels they are for driving; I kind of feel like it it is a big boy's giant, heavy, expensive "meccano" to play with (not sure "meccano" is known everywhere: the construction boxes containing all kinds of metal bars, screws and nuts to assemble mechanical things).
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  7. #637
    Senior Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    I wasn't implying I am against changing to an alternator really. I am just stating the brightness of the headlights won't change with an alternator, except for that lower voltage at idle RPM (and slightly above). At one point I considered changing to alternator myself, one of the reasons being a dynamo seems to require maintenance sooner. In the end, I decided that the dynamo does fine. I have several spare dynamos laying around.

    I DID change the dynamo regulator to an electronic equivalent however. The original is really a relay switching the stator winding current quite rapidly on (to full current) and off again. That relay will one day have reached its limit of switchings, and be stuck either in off (so no electrical power anymore from the dynamo) or a lot worse, in the fully on position (making the dynamo stator winding burn out). The electronic version does not do the crude "on-off" switching but regulates stator winding current in a continuous way in function of the power needed. It also picks up activating the dynamo at a lower RPM (be it still not at idle). The electronic regulator is more gentle on the dynamo (and the battery for that matter) also protecting against overcurrents.
    The dynamo only gives 30A (which makes for 14V x 30A = 420W in theory, but better count on something like 300W). Unless you intend to drive for long periods with all 4 headlights on (in Europe we rarely drive with all four on for longer times), there isn't a problem of electrical power deficiency really. Other appliances added such as an electric fuel pump, a car radio (in those early days, a car radio worked with radio tubes!), etc are quite marginal in power consumption compared to the headlights (unless you intend to add a strong radio broadcast station in your car).

    But anyway, if you like the alternator setup better, go for it.
    I switched to that electronic regulator (sold on many VW parts websites) back when I had the car together and was trying to figure out the charging issue. It definitely helped! Although I did take the old one apart and found all the contacts to look quite good; so it was probably still functional. I have wondered why Fulvia parts suppliers aren't really selling that electronic regulator. It's such a cheap part and works better than the original. I suppose they probably like selling the old style regulators for a lot more money.

  8. #638
    Senior Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Big thank you to Mr. Fiat in Atlanta. I bought a floor from them and asked them to get it out quickly if they could because I wanted to install it this weekend. They got it in the mail the next day and it arrived this afternoon! They don't have a massive selection of fulvia parts, but they are another US based supplier to consider.


  9. #639
    Master Lancista GlynW's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Good call to replace the driver's floor section, rather than just patch it. Mine was very similar and had rotted out in the front corner, near the sill. However, as hard as I tried to patch it, the distortion to the remaining floor meant that it flexed like a biscuit-tin lid every time I put weight on it. In the end I removed the whole section and fitted a rigid, ready-made panel. That also made fitting heat-sealed, waterproof panel-deadening material to the floor much easier.

    I agree with Tim's comments about earths and wiring connectors. I found that the earths to the body were the real weakness, so I made a good earth connection on the battery tray at a point where it would remain dry (connected directly to the battery earth), ran separate wires along the loom into the trunk and engine bay, and connected any items needing an earth to this, via spurs at their points of attachment to the bodywork. That way I could leave the bodywork covered in paint and I have not had any earthing issues since. Even the alternator warning light stopped glowing!

    Great to see the progress & thanks for all these details.

    Glyn

  10. #640
    Senior Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quick update this time; only worked on my car yesterday. Since today is father's day I'm going to spend some time with my dad.

    It took me longer than I thought to get the floor ready; about 4-5 hours to get the old floor cut out, cleaned up, and the new floor trimmed and fit up.



    Here's the floor after I was happy with the fit up and had started tacking it in. As with last time, tons of tex screws and the little eastwood panel clamps helped get everything lined up and held in place for the welds.



    And here's where I finished for the day.. Not quite welded out on the bottom so probably 1 hour or so left before I'm done completely with welding it in. So at this point I'm practically done with welding on the front of the car; Really feels good to say that! I gave the middle floor that I didn't replace a scrub with the wire brush to get the surface rust off and then gave it a spray with some eastwood internal frame paint that I've been using inside enclosed metal areas to keep it from rusting again.




    A couple thoughts.. I'm still not sure if I want to do a full seam in the corner where the inner sill and the floor meet. Leaning towards it at the moment as it may give more rigidity than just the plug welds that are underneath.

    Also, the Mr. Fiat floor, which I'm sure is the same as other vendors are selling, didn't fit as well as the Omicron made panel. Some of the beads in the floor lined up while others didn't... Definitely took some massaging to kind of "blend" the lines that didn't quite line up. I suppose you can expect to do some finagling with body parts supplied for a 50 year old car, but I was ready to call out Omicron for taking months to make my passenger side floor panel while this place got me one in less than a week.. I guess you can either have perfect quality or speed, but maybe not both.

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