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  1. #231
    Legendary Lancista lancialulu's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    I would replace the wheel bearings.... pressing them out via the inner race is possibly going to create indentations of the races by the ball bearings. You will only really know when you have reassembled them on the car.

  2. #232
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    I would replace the wheel bearings.... pressing them out via the inner race is possibly going to create indentations of the races by the ball bearings. You will only really know when you have reassembled them on the car.
    It is maybe a good idea to replace them, but I am not so sure that pressing them out with an hydraulic press would damage them when pushing them out by the inner part (there is no other way to get them out anyway). These are "conical" (there is a better, more appropriate name for it, but it slips my mind for the moment) ball bearings, meaning they are designed to take about as much axial force as they can take radially, what means in the case of these big suckers many tons of axial force. If they came out rather smoothly and without having to apply shocks (like hammering on them or similar), my guess is that it won't hurt. The (static) load these can take is enormous.

    But that is assuming they were good for starters, which is not obvious, the biggest issue being the lubrication... was there still good grease in them? And was the grease about 50 years old by now? How many km/mile did the races run with possibly bad or dried out grease? And the process of getting the hubs off the car, getting the races out, put new ones in, and put the hubs back on is that laboriously that it may be a good idea to replace them, be it a costly affair.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  3. #233
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    the simple answer would be yes, but there are things to consider. i would think, (subject to correction by our resident expert) that you would need to calculate the air consumption and expected vacuum of the engine at idle speed and make sure you could replicate that with your vacuum source. first thought would be a regenerative blower to do the work, but there may be better options.
    I will maybe later expand on the issue, but yes, a strong vacuum cleaner (remove the dust bag to remove some unwanted resistance) gives a surprisingly strong "vacuum". And using an old inlet manifold is about what I had in mind (I have one laying around that has been "damaged" by somebody providing extra suction measurement ports on #1 and #4, which is rather convenient in this context).

    In this case, it is better to work with "underpressure" (or "vacuum") as the air consumption is that tiny with butterflies closing off well that it is difficult to measure accurately.

    It is not only measuring how well they close off individually, but also the difference between the two sides of the carb.

    I will see if can look up the typical suction underpressure values of the engine running at idle with carbs in good order, and pass them on here. I never have put values on them, as I use my balancing vacuum measurement tool, and I know from experience (visually) in what range they indicate are when good.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  4. #234
    Legendary Lancista lancialulu's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    It is maybe a good idea to replace them, but I am not so sure that pressing them out with an hydraulic press would damage them when pushing them out by the inner part (there is no other way to get them out anyway). These are "conical" (there is a better, more appropriate name for it, but it slips my mind for the moment) ball bearings, meaning they are designed to take about as much axial force as they can take radially, what means in the case of these big suckers many tons of axial force. If they came out rather smoothly and without having to apply shocks (like hammering on them or similar), my guess is that it won't hurt. The (static) load these can take is enormous.

    But that is assuming they were good for starters, which is not obvious, the biggest issue being the lubrication... was there still good grease in them? And was the grease about 50 years old by now? How many km/mile did the races run with possibly bad or dried out grease? And the process of getting the hubs off the car, getting the races out, put new ones in, and put the hubs back on is that laboriously that it may be a good idea to replace them, be it a costly affair.
    Actually these bearing can crennel by just standing. I do not know about government car tests in US or Belgium but in UK any “rumble” from a bearing is a fail and no amount of new grease can deal with this. But if the bearings are good a repack is a good idea. You pick out the seal with a small jewellers screwdriver....

  5. #235
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lancialulu View Post
    Actually these bearing can crennel by just standing.
    Yes, but that is something we call "metal creep" (not sure this is correct English, very slow deformation over time, we are talking months, years applying the force in one single direction statically); the force of the hydraulic press was most likely only minutes at most.

    Quote Originally Posted by lancialulu View Post
    I do not know about government car tests in US or Belgium but in UK any “rumble” from a bearing is a fail and no amount of new grease can deal with this.
    Same here in Belgium. It is sound to fail them, as soon as this happens, deterioration is usually quick, and it is a safety issue.

    As for the grease to be used: I use this black MoS2 grease on suspension and heavy loaded bearings like this, but there may be other types of grease that are even better, not an expert in that.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  6. #236
    Senior Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Well I know the bearings where good when I was driving the car.. and I seriously doubt I did any damage to them yesterday as smoothly as I was able to remove them. I'll do a very careful inspection when I clean them out though and try to check for marking on the races. Even at 150 a pop I would be a mistake not to replace them at this point if there's even small chance they'll go bad soon

  7. #237
    Legendary Lancista bmarler's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    these bearings are angular contact design and like marnix says can withstand huge amounts of static load. the way you describe the removal process i have high confidence they will be fine. it's certainly better to re pack them than run on 50 year old grease.
    tim is right that bearings can deform from just sitting, but this usually happens if there's a static load on them. marnix is also correct that this tends to happen over long periods of inactivity. so with precision spindles we always make sure to rotate them on a regular basis if they are not in regular use.
    i guess this would also make a good case to use your cars regularly for good bearing health.
    bmarler/
    1967 fulvia sport zagato
    1961 appia vignale convert.

  8. #238
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    "angular" was the correct description that escaped me for a moment
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

  9. #239
    Senior Lancista Bart Boosman's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Before pressing out the bearings, bolt down the two inner races together to avoid damage to the bearing seal if these races come apart. Once damaged, which happens instanly, these seals are very difficult to repair and get back in.

  10. #240
    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Sound advice
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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