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Thread: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

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    Master Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    If you intend to replace them (recommended anyway) and there is no issue in damaging the ball joints, I do that with a large bearing puller/pusher. Hook it behind the flanges of the suspension arm, and the screw pin in the centre of the ball joint where the grease nipple was located. It probably damages the ball joint by deformation of the top, but if the idea is to replace them (that's the only reason I get them out anyway) that doesn't matter. Slightly heating may also help, but that will almost certainly damage the ball joint, and possibly the suspension arm as well. Another thing I would possibly do if the thing refuses is getting it extremely cleaned first and trying to totally degrease it first, then cleaning (with rust removing fluid) in the ultrasonic cleaner (that's the reason it needs to be degreased first) for a long time, next keep it in for a long time in rust penetrating fluid. Things tend to come out a lot easier after that.

    They probably wouldn't have been that difficult to remove at the time, but these things have been there for decades probably, and some difficulty is to be expected.

    Just suggestions, there may be easier/better solutions.
    The top ones were definitely difficult due to being rusted in place. I already have all new ball joints so no issue with damaging them. I'll try to clean and remove the rust for the lower two.. Seems they'll be harder to remove than the tops.

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    Master Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lancialulu View Post
    The UK Club has a tool to extract for hire but unfortunately could not hire out to US. Here is a pic if you want to make one.
    Thanks for the picture.. I might be able to make something similar with my uncles plasma table.

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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmarler View Post
    dude, you're gonna hurt yourself doing that. i can't believe there's not a ball joint press at that shop. not only good for removal, but good for assembly as well. hf has cheap ones that will do it. (not as good as a good one, but ...)

    and by all means, don't drift out the bearings. i haven't done mine yet so i don't know what the casting looks like, but i'm sure there's a way to press them out in a controlled fashion. use that smart noggin of yours.
    I tried a few different removal tools that either didn't fit well or just weren't powerful enough to get it out. These things are really seized in there (probably due to the rust). Certainly using a giant sledgehammer isn't the safest method and that's part of the reason why I stopped after getting the top two free...

    Only the inner race is exposed for pressing the bearing out, which will hopefully work okay with the big press we have and an appropriately sized socket or something. I just don't want to put too much force on the inner race a mess it up

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    Legendary Lancista bmarler's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Taddraughn View Post
    I tried a few different removal tools that either didn't fit well or just weren't powerful enough to get it out. These things are really seized in there (probably due to the rust). Certainly using a giant sledgehammer isn't the safest method and that's part of the reason why I stopped after getting the top two free...

    Only the inner race is exposed for pressing the bearing out, which will hopefully work okay with the big press we have and an appropriately sized socket or something. I just don't want to put too much force on the inner race a mess it up
    as was mentioned, soaking the ball joints can really help to loosen them up. i use the old 50/50 atf & acetone solution as it's cheap to make a large enough batch to soak a large part in.
    i hear what you're saying about the bearings, apply force with caution. clean all the crud out of the path of the outer race and hold your breath. others have been successful so you can do it too. if i had mine that far broken down there's no way i'd leave out servicing the bearings. you would always be wondering when they'll fail...
    bmarler/
    1967 fulvia sport zagato
    1961 appia vignale convert.

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    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    If you got an hydraulic press, and the arms are out anyway, I would go that way. With suitable sockets or whatever that can support it underneath of course. As always with these things, safety precautions are called for. We want to hear the continuation of your story, not that you ended up in hospital.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    I appreciate all the safety comments. Definitely don't want to end up in the hospital from working on my car.

    Today there was the car show that I wanted my Fulvia to be in.. Seems like a foolish goal to have had, but it's my first time restoring a car like this. Some wonderful cars at the show but not too many Italian cars (besides loads of ferraris and a couple alfas). British section was by far the most interesting.

    Inspired by the show, I decided to put a carb back together. finished cleaning all the hardware in my ultrasonic cleaner and put it together with all new jets (except starter jet). Looking at the idle jets it's VERY obvious someone cleaned the idle jets improperly. The holes on the old ones are much bigger than the new 47.5 I got. Glad I decided to get all new jets.



    I am wondering what this single small fabric washer that came in my kit is for though. Anyone know? I think I figured out where the extra c clip shown in the photo goes. Also, is it okay that the travel of the needle valves is different? both the 1.3 and 1.1 new needle valves have much more travel than the old one.





    If these things run half as well as they look I'm going to be very happy with them!!





    Now I just need to figure how how to set up the accelerator pump/ what some good base settings are for everything...

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    Legendary Lancista bmarler's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    don't worry about extra parts in the kit. there's always something that doesn't have a home due to the various versions of the carb over the years.
    to check the accelerator pump you'll need some small tubing. (i use weed eater fuel hose) attach it to the brass tube where it comes out inside the venturi.
    route that into a graduated cylinder to measure.
    i'm not really sure what you mean about base settings, there's really only the sync and idle mix to deal with. for the sync you'll need to either hook a manometer to the intake ports or use a uni-sync or similar tool at the inlet trumpet.
    setting the mixture has been covered many times, a little use of the search tool will turn up a very good explanation by marnix.
    bmarler/
    1967 fulvia sport zagato
    1961 appia vignale convert.

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    Legendary Lancista Marnix's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Looks very neat yes.

    For the float needle valves: it actually doesn't matter how far they go OUT. It is how far they go IN that matters. Turn them upside down, and look if the length with the needles fallen in is the same.

    I thought I covered the setting of the acceleration pump gain somewhere? Or was it in a private message somewhere, don't remember. Attach two small tubes coming in from the inlet side to the acceleration pump injectors inside the barrels, and let the tubes discharge in a cc measurement can. TOTAL gain (so for both sides added together) is between 6 to 10 cc at 30 strokes. Give initial strokes till both sides are streaming nicely before measuring, the pump and channels need to fill up first. I usually aim for 8 cc, but the setting is not very critical really.

    As discussed, your carbs have a cast that was prepared for internal balancing, but they didn't implement it. You will have to try to twist and turn the butterfly valves so that the remaining air leak is as much the same as you can get it. Look trough the carb from the input is side as if looking trough binoculars towards a strong light source. If everything is good, you should see the butterfly opening almost completely closing off the light, but there will still be a bit of light "leak". You should attempt to get the amount of light "leak" as much the same as you can get it by twisting and turning the butterflies. Luckily, for the C.32 it seems to be a bit less critical than for the large size carburetors.

    I had a download somewhere that discusses all the balancing and mixture setting stuff. Don't recall what it was named. Part of it is not applicable to your carbs, because they didn't implement the internal balancing on yours.

    Good luck. Prepare for quite some time needed to get the settings right but the pay-off is great: when they are set correctly, the engine runs great.
    Lancia Fulvia 2C 1964
    Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1,3 1968
    Porsche 924 1979
    Alfa Romeo 33 1.4IE 1993

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    Master Lancista Taddraughn's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Looks very neat yes.

    For the float needle valves: it actually doesn't matter how far they go OUT. It is how far they go IN that matters. Turn them upside down, and look if the length with the needles fallen in is the same.

    I thought I covered the setting of the acceleration pump gain somewhere? Or was it in a private message somewhere, don't remember. Attach two small tubes coming in from the inlet side to the acceleration pump injectors inside the barrels, and let the tubes discharge in a cc measurement can. TOTAL gain (so for both sides added together) is between 6 to 10 cc at 30 strokes. Give initial strokes till both sides are streaming nicely before measuring, the pump and channels need to fill up first. I usually aim for 8 cc, but the setting is not very critical really.

    As discussed, your carbs have a cast that was prepared for internal balancing, but they didn't implement it. You will have to try to twist and turn the butterfly valves so that the remaining air leak is as much the same as you can get it. Look trough the carb from the input is side as if looking trough binoculars towards a strong light source. If everything is good, you should see the butterfly opening almost completely closing off the light, but there will still be a bit of light "leak". You should attempt to get the amount of light "leak" as much the same as you can get it by twisting and turning the butterflies. Luckily, for the C.32 it seems to be a bit less critical than for the large size carburetors.

    I had a download somewhere that discusses all the balancing and mixture setting stuff. Don't recall what it was named. Part of it is not applicable to your carbs, because they didn't implement the internal balancing on yours.

    Good luck. Prepare for quite some time needed to get the settings right but the pay-off is great: when they are set correctly, the engine runs great.
    Oh yes, I forgot you already told me about the acc. pump. I'll try and find your document for the mixture settings.

    I was putting together the second carb today and everything went well until I realized that there are two different accelerator pump springs in these carbs. One is very strong and fits tightly on the base of the pump. The other is weaker and larger. I'm assuming the shorter wider/ weaker one is the correct one? Are these available anywhere to buy?


  10. #220
    Legendary Lancista bmarler's Avatar
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    Re: Taddraughn's Fulvia Coupe: Progress Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
    Looks very neat yes.

    For the float needle valves: it actually doesn't matter how far they go OUT. It is how far they go IN that matters. Turn them upside down, and look if the length with the needles fallen in is the same.

    I thought I covered the setting of the acceleration pump gain somewhere? Or was it in a private message somewhere, don't remember. Attach two small tubes coming in from the inlet side to the acceleration pump injectors inside the barrels, and let the tubes discharge in a cc measurement can. TOTAL gain (so for both sides added together) is between 6 to 10 cc at 30 strokes. Give initial strokes till both sides are streaming nicely before measuring, the pump and channels need to fill up first. I usually aim for 8 cc, but the setting is not very critical really.

    As discussed, your carbs have a cast that was prepared for internal balancing, but they didn't implement it. You will have to try to twist and turn the butterfly valves so that the remaining air leak is as much the same as you can get it. Look trough the carb from the input is side as if looking trough binoculars towards a strong light source. If everything is good, you should see the butterfly opening almost completely closing off the light, but there will still be a bit of light "leak". You should attempt to get the amount of light "leak" as much the same as you can get it by twisting and turning the butterflies. Luckily, for the C.32 it seems to be a bit less critical than for the large size carburetors.

    I had a download somewhere that discusses all the balancing and mixture setting stuff. Don't recall what it was named. Part of it is not applicable to your carbs, because they didn't implement the internal balancing on yours.

    Good luck. Prepare for quite some time needed to get the settings right but the pay-off is great: when they are set correctly, the engine runs great.
    do you think he should adjust the butterflies if he hasn't disturbed them or the internal balance screws? i would think he could just leave them alone and save a couple of hours of agonizing over how big the crack of light is compared to the one on the other side...
    if, however the balance screws have been disturbed then you must certainly need to adjust the butterflies for the best fit.
    bmarler/
    1967 fulvia sport zagato
    1961 appia vignale convert.

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