volumex how to add 130tc cam and smaller pulley

[rossocorsa]

getting a bit in advance of myself here because the bodywork on the coupé is still half finished however I've been thinking about the engine situation.
I have a set of strada (read Ritmo if you're mainland european) 130tc cams and a one tooth less smaller supercharger pulley. I don't want to set the world on fire just a little more edge to performance so I intend to keep it otherwise as lancia intended with original carbs etc. Question is mainly about the cams my understanding is that it's best to fit just the inlet cam as fuel consumption will suffer badly if the 130tc exhaust cam is used as well. The cams were acquired without pulleys. I noticed that lancia chose to open the inlet much later on vx than on non-vx cars again i guess for economy. If I use the betas cam pulley on the 130tc inlet cam will the cam open at a similar position to in an unmodified beta vx or will it open more like a 130tc .....in other words is the opening angle defined by the cam or its pulley? what is anyone's experience on this? also what point for opening seems the most desirable bearing in mind the car needs to be useable and reasonably economical to run

[Will]

The index mark on the cam wheel corresponds to the tip of the nose of the cam on #4cyl.

Thus, the centerline (peak) of the cam stays the same when changing to a more agressive cam, and the cam both opens earlier and closes later.

Who told you the fuel economy suffers and how much? Seems to me even if there were fuel blowing straight through:

a) It would only occur under WOT (at boost)

and

b) It could not be much more than the normal amount of fuel for the air charge passing through the motor (i.e. extra air/fule MIXTURE might get pushed through, but that's a big diffeence over FUEL getting pushed through!)

c) Any extra unburned mixture going through would probably wreak havoc on a catalytic converter, but could help from cooking the exhaust valve!

I say try it and see what your fuel economy is. Chances are, if you are driving a Vx in the first place then optimum mileage is not your top priority.

I also think you'll find the short duration Vx cams are designed more for torque than fuel economy, the entire Vx motor is going to rotate at a lower peak RPM than a non-vx motor.

[rossocorsa]

so I figure that you'd say what the hell and try both 130tc cams and see what happens? certainly I'd be willing to trade a little torque for a more sprightly top end, the ample torque and consequent lack of traction from junctions in wet weather can be embarrassing anyway. I agree that the vx is not very economical (even Dr Masala at lancia commented on this when I had a guided tour of the lancia collection a few years ago!)this seems to be more in heavy acceleration than constant load I know this is the case for all cars but it is more exaggerated on the vx in that its quite economical on a cruise on the motorway but very heavy when having fun on a twisty back road, I was told that this was partly due to the extra energy needed to accelerate the blower rotors but that could well be rubbish . the comments I have seen about economy ,as I recall, relate to increased overlap meaning there is a lot more unburnt fuel getting through, of course on a European car a catalyst is not a consideration

[Hamish]

Alan,
Will's right enough about the cam - it's an easy fit but some vernier pulleys would be nice to help set up the timing optimally :wink:

If you're going down the smaller pulley route and the cam(s) then I'd think about a different carb. I'm sure you'd get it rolling roaded anyway, but something else might be prudent for power and - oddly - you might get slightly better economy (no really, sounds daft but that's how it worked for me :!: ).

As far as setting up the timing etc- well, I'll leave that to those who know best. I'd stick with the 130 inlet and standard VX outlet. I set up my old VX with an approximate guess based on "safe" lancia settings - took it to a rolling road and 3 hours later it was out and running like a dream. Will has possibly explored this route more than most on the forum so his findings should prove useful :wink:

Have a squint for those ex- BWE/Evocars torque steer spacers - they do help. Perhaps the Betaboyz may resurrect the idea :?:

[rossocorsa]

did you use another carb then Hamish? I decided against the big weber dcoe route as despite having all the bits to do it (I've since sold 'em on ebay)it looks untidy under the bonnet and a bl**dy tight fit plus in any case it'll never be quicker than the Delta (in a straight line ....on the bendy bits it'd eat it for breakfast! ....) so I only want to crank up the fun factor a little

[Hamish]

Alan,
Ended up with the standard carb heavily re-jetted and choked, but the 40DCNF was the best all round with "all the bits" with the benefit of keeping it all standard looking under the bonnet (yes, it can be done with a 40DCNF).

[andybeta]

Aren't the characteristics of the 130TC cam rather inflated for the VX supercharged engine? I heard the IE cam was just as good, a fraction of the cost and a lot more plentiful.

With a 45 DCOE side draft, engine bay space is actually improved IMHO.
It is altogether a lot more simpler and neater. Take a look at my engine bay. And a properly prepared VX engine really flies.

It might give an Integrale a run for it's money, but then you have to compare like with like. 200+bhp through the front wheels is never going to compete with at least 225bhp through a decent 4WD system along twisty roads. Be sensible.

A decent 4-2-1 or 4-1 exhaust manifold and two straight through boxes will make a considerable difference as well.

DCOEs and parts are available again through Webcon. If you did decide to go DCOE go for the 45, as it's worth it, use a linkage that goes underneath the carb. Much neater. Space problems, what space problems?

Maybe the std carb will not keep up with the wilder profile of the 130tc cams. Stick to a std VX exhaust cam.
Andy.

[Hamish]

Andy,
Undoubtably the 45 is best for out and out power, arguably a 40dcoe might be more driveable :?: but until someone sets up 2 cars so equipped for a test we won't know :cry:
With the 130TC cam you do need, as you suggest, a bit more carb. It is possible to do the necessary with a standard carb (as I did) but it cost a fortune in 'new bits' (chokes/tubes/jets) to get right, a 40DCNF would have been cheaper and simpler in the long run (as such a carb subsequently did :wink: ).

Unless I've misread what Alan is looking for, it's for a wee bit more oomph but also with an element of originality :?: Certainly the true potential of the VX engine comes around with a DCOE/DHLA (or even throttle body/mapped ignition/direct injection :twisted: ) conversion but for something a wee bit better than standard I maintain that the DCNF route is the simplist and easiest route and it will cope with the 130TC inlet cam.

[rossocorsa]

as you may recall I had a rough hpe vx with 40dcoe conversion this car had the beta ie inlet cam and standard blower pulley plus 4 into 1 exhaust. power on cam was just WOW! absolutely bonkers fast but it was not good below 2000rpm I'm sure it could have been sorted but I never got around to it as the rest of the car was very bad indeed. I kept the parts for the coupé but in the end decided that it was better to keep closer to standard on engine layout and keep the car looking quite subtle so let those bits go. I already have the 130tc cams so that's not an issue if I didn't I wouldn't chase them as they are rare and expensive as has been mentioned and I still have the engine as a spare (it has had a bottom end rebuild amongst other things) less supercharger and the 4 into 1. I don't want to chase ultimate power because after the delta hpe it'll always seem a bit slow anyway whatever i did and I also don't want to tempt fate too far on what is after all quite an old engine if I can get to 150bhp or there abouts that'll be fine and dandy

[Otto-valvole-per-tutte]

A friend of mine put a 130 TC cam in his standard Beta Cpe VX and this was the result:

http://www.lancisti.org/forum/modules.php?set_albumName=album87&id=Volumex_130TC&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

[rossocorsa]

I know rolling roads are notoriously inaccurate but out of interest is this at the wheels or corrected to din standard and are the lower curves before the cam change?

[Otto-valvole-per-tutte]

Alan, i might speak to him next week and then i'll ask.

Cheers, Pieter

[Fingers]

If you're only looking for a little more oomph, I wouldn't even bother fitting the cam, I couldn't believe the difference with just adding the smaller supercharger pulley and a 45DCOE, it really was a different car. But with the GC IIIa cam it's now a bit of a fire breather, but I think because of the supercharger it's still ok for around town driving. And it will most definitely give and 8v Integrale a run for it's money, revs very nicely up to 7500. I'm running 32mm chokes in the DCOE as I can't get anything smaller to get the velocity up, so I think that has the effect of moving the power a little higher up the rev range. Oh yeah, and the noise it makes a WOT is great too.