What is this switch?

[ecohen2]

I have three switches on top of the transmission. #1 has a bunch of wires and is not visible from this photo. The #2 has two wires, I am guessing this is the resverse light. The #3 has no wires... What is it and do I care??

I circled #2 and #3 in green. The #1 is behind a hose...

http://www.sensory.com/users/edcohen/lancia/trans.jpg

Thanks,
Ed

[cthargiss]

These switches control the fast idle solenoid in the emissions control circuit.
Your #1= 5th and Reverse
#2= 3rd and 4th
#3= 1st and 2nd
You only care if you are trying to keep the emissions system totally stock.
Craig

[ecohen2]

I was trying to keep my car smog legal.... But it seems like its going to be more trouble then its worth..

Where is the reverse light switch if its not one of those?

Should the third one have wires?

[Will]

On the switch with 4 contacts, make sure you find the orange wire, and if you disconnect it, insulate it well! That thing feeds directly to a fuse, IIRC it's #1. At any rate, it's the one the instrumentation, etc. is on, and the wire going to the switch is small enough that if you have an 18A fuse in #1, it'll smoke and melt stuff under your dash nicely when the wire grounds out on the transmission.

[ecohen2]

Ok, I am still confused and the wiring diagram isn't really helping much.

#1 does appear to be the emissions stuff, which is hooked up on my car, but who knows if it is actually working.

#2 to me appears to be the reverse light switch.. If not, where is that bugger?

#3 doesn't appear to be anything of importance.. I don't seem to have any wires for it..

Ed

[DJ]

Ok, I am still confused and the wiring diagram isn't really helping much.

#1 does appear to be the emissions stuff, which is hooked up on my car, but who knows if it is actually working.

#2 to me appears to be the reverse light switch.. If not, where is that bugger?

#3 doesn't appear to be anything of importance.. I don't seem to have any wires for it..

Ed

#2 is indeed for the reverse light. Perhaps it also does some emissions stuff. Can't imagine you need all 4 wires just for the backup light.

Someone probably already removed the wires for #3 which went to emissions gear.

[Will]

I'm not sure from memory that I can say for sure which order they are in, IIRC the 5th/reverse is in the middle. At any rate, it's the one with four wires. If you are losing the emissions, this is the only one that matters!

You need to isolate the orange wire so it doesn't short to chassis. Then, you need to make sure you retain the brake light switch function. Everything else can come off- leave the switches in place unless you have plugs, else crap can get down into your gearbox. Ditto on the bolts for the air pump if I recall, put bolts in those holes to seal up the gearbox, and/or a vent on one might help mitigate leaks.

There also seems to be some sort of difference on the reverse shaft detent on the Monte. Don't ask me to explain what it is, all I can tell you is that I bought a new reverse switch from Chad and the "nose" of the switch seemed to be too short, it did not work. So, don't follow my example :), just keep the existing.

[ecohen2]

Thanks for the info... I am going to try and safety and emissions next month after I get a windshield. I know my reverse lights are flakey which is why I was looking for that switch.

If I don't / can't pass emissions I am going to gut everything and probably upgrade the exhaust and carbs. Ill just register the car someplace far far away where they don't care.


Ed

[Will]

How restrictive is your emissions test, does everything have to be bone stock, or just spew waste products under certain limits?

The reason I ask is that the FIAT or Beta FI are both options that are neither prohibitively costly nor terribly complex to install.

[ecohen2]

Basically they shove a pipe up the exhaust and then run through the gears on a dyno. I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I had a real hard time passing in a 86 Mazda RX-7 with brand new emissions stuff on it. You can fail for a spike during a shift...

Its pretty brutal..

Ed

[mogul_x]

Ed,

Is it just a tailpipe test, or is there also a visual inspection? New Jersey, for example, tests tailpipe emissions and does a visual check for a catalytic converter, if the car is supposed to have one. Pennsylvania visually checks the entire system to make sure nothing has been removed or bypassed. You can fail the visual test even if the car passes the sniffer.

Fortunately, cars registered as antiques and classics are exempt.

[ecohen2]

For my Mazda it included the visual.... However, the DC DMV didn't even have a listing for a Lancia Scorpion, so I doubt the city run inspection station will either. I have all of the proper parts from what I can tell including a new shiny air pump. Hopefully they take a look at it and wave me by.

If you are not familiar with DC, its pretty weak on the services side, but strong on the fine and enforcement side. Everything from parking to inspection. My favorite saying is "DC is a great place, no car tax and we have the roads to prove it!"

Ed

[Will]

Scott;
In Ed's case, he can leave the cat in place, replace with a free-flow, or probably even core it out if he goes to FI. The Beta system looks pretty darn stock.

[ecohen2]

I doubt the DC guys can even find the cat in a Scorpion...


According to the DC DMV: http://www.dmv.washingtondc.gov/info/forms/InspectionFailureBrochure2_pdf.shtm


Specifically for the converter:

Visual Catalyst Inspection
All gasoline-powered vehicles 1975 and newer and less than 8501 lbs gross vehicle weight will receive a visual catalyst inspection. Vehicles will fail the visual inspection if the catalyst is missing or has been tampered with. The catalyst must be repaired prior to reinspection.

Waivers will only be granted for work performed by a certified mechanic on specific emissions related repairs costing $450 or more

[mogul_x]

The Beta system looks pretty darn stock.

If the FI system has something that looks like a carburetor, air pump, and EGR valve, it might pass in PA. If any of that is missing, it will fail, no matter how clean it runs. They check the engine against the emissions control diagram for the vehicle. (or are supposed to , anyway)

It looks like they only visually check the cat in DC, so Ed doesn't have to worry about keeping the rest of the system intact as long as it passes the emissions test.

[ecohen2]

The bummer is that if I can't register this car somewhere around here, I will have to part with it. Its too big and too nice to sit in a garage without being driven..

[bjmarsh]

Ed,

If it's stock w/ all emission equipment still intact why can't you get it smogged? a stock Scorp w / new cat will pass the strict Cal test. If your missing major smog equipment items it will be tougher (or impossible).

BTW, mine passed without the previously mentioned switches ( 1/2nd, 3/4th and 5th) connected. All of these switches and their functions are documented in the Beta emission control system manual. As long as your major systems are intact and functional; carb, egr, cat, air pump you should be able to smog it. If the Cat is original, it may be difficult to pass, plan on spending $125-150 for a new aftermarket cat.

Barry

[John O]

The bummer is that if I can't register this car somewhere around here, I will have to part with it. Its too big and too nice to sit in a garage without being driven..

Ed,

I couldn't find anything about historic or antique plates on DC's site, but I never could find it on Maryland's either and we have 4 cars tagged this way. I've been promised by a Montgomery county cop who is one of our DCfiats guys that if you daily drive a car with historic plates no cop will ever stop you - they just don't care. I daily drove my 124 Coupe with historic plates for 2 years and no-one ever bothered me.

Here's a quote I found on the web about dc antique plates:

The District of Columbia has long offered historic motor vehicle license plates... The District defines "historic motor vehicle" as any vehicle 25 years old or older or any vehicle at least 15 years old and of a marque no longer manufactured.

"the [historic] motor vehicle has been or is being restored, preserved or maintained as an exhibition or collector's item because of its special historical value or significance, has not been substantially altered or modified from the manufacturer's original specifications and is used on the public highways for the transportation of passengers or property in conjunction with exhibitions, expositions, parades, tours, club activities, or similar activities or events, including transportation directly to or from such activities or events, but in no event used for general transportation."

That sounds like #17 to me.

More important, for you this means no inspection neccessary. Get your Antique plates so you can drive it while you're sorting it out ...and you can take your time about it. When you think you're ready to put it into daily use and you want more ligit plates, they are only an inspection away.

John O.

[ecohen2]

Hmm... Ok, I live walking distance from the DMV, ill stop by on Saturday and see what they say about this. Last time I was there, the woman had no idea what I was talking about...

Thanks!
Ed

[SubGothius]

Quite a lot of the most fiddly smog eqpt. has to do with tweaking things to reduce emissions when the engine is cold, or to get a cold engine in smog tune running smoothly during winter in the frozen north without running it crazy rich, and all had much to do with certifying the car for sale when brand-new. If your cat is functional and the other major smog eqpt's at least present to pass a visual check, then you should pass fine, 'specially if you drive the car to warm it up to normal operating temp first before they sniff the tailpipe. ;-)

[ecohen2]

The cat is new along with the airpump.... I guess ill find out soon enough!

DC is a fun place to live, but a really REALLY bad place to own a car. They make it very difficult to do anything.


Ed

[ecohen2]

Switch #2 which is suppose to be the reverse lights appears to have some questionable wiring. Can anyone describe where the wires come from that lead into switch #2?

Mine are just two wires that are both grounded and not really attached to anything. If I can find the bundle where they are suppose to originate from I can hook them up again. I have lots of extra wires just hanging out in the engine bay...

[Will]

Ed:

Orange wire. See Wiring diagram. Heed earlier post, also consider dropping #1 to an 8A fuse until you've got it right.

[ecohen2]

Ed:

Orange wire. See Wiring diagram. Heed earlier post, also consider dropping #1 to an 8A fuse until you've got it right.

I thought the Orange wire was the high powered one connected to switch with 4 wires... This is the middle switch that has two connection. Both of mine I can tell are not right. I am looking for where the wires come from inside the engine bay.