Stopping Rust

[ecohen2]

I am back from Rome and awake at stupid hours of the morning. I was watching SPEED channel this morning and they were pushing this product on Two Guys Garage:

http://www.counteractrust.com/promo%20events.htm

The way they explained it, actually makes sense. Any thoughts?

Ed

BTW... People in Italy call our car a LanCHA

[bjmarsh]

Ed,

Never believe anything you see on TV!, especially at "stupid hours of the morning" It sounds like "Snake Oil" with "Magic Properties".

"The wiring harness red wire is connected to the battery's positive terminal, the black wire goes to battery ground, and the green wire is connected to body ground".

Well "battery ground" and "body ground" are the same thing. It probably sounds more high tech if you have to attached 3 wires instead of 2. If the maker of this gadget cannot figure out how to connect a simple 2 wire circuit, you can guess ther rest....



Barry

[John O]

I would normally agree that it's snake oil, but they have an impressive client list with testimonials. It's too easy to call these clients up to verify what they're saying. It might actually work though I'm at a loss to understand how when the "capacitive pads" don't actually touch bare metal. Who knows ....?

John O.

[bjmarsh]

John,

You may be right about snake oil. I Checked their web site:

"At CounterAct we are trained and educated science professionals and we will not try to sell you vegetable choppers, CD song collections from the 60s or snake oil to cure your rheumatism as a side line."

Reminds me of the line from Ghost Busters, "Back off man I'm a scientist!"

If you look at their site there is a lot of pseudo-science mumbo jumbo but very little in the way of real facts. Among their Professional Affiliations and Accreditations: The are a member of SEMA, the aftermarket auto suppliers group whose members have brought you cutting edge technology such as 6 inch mufflers for Hondas, 22 inch diamond studded rims for your SUV / PU (Bling) and megawatt stereos.

At the turn of the century (20th not 21st) there were dozens of patented electronic gadgets that did everything including curing the common cold. Just because something is patented does not mean it works.


BTW, you can capacitively couple a charge on something without having to touch bare metal. The issue remains; any proof that this applied charge does anything to prevent rust? As for their references, check the various ads for miracle grow, diet pills etc. They all have someone who believes in them. I'd be very skeptical of somebody who makes claims but does not publish their test reports or their test methodology.

Barry Marsh

[ecohen2]

What makes me think this is real, is when you look at all the magazine articles about it. They are far more informative then the website, which I admit looks like crap. It appears that this has been around for quite a few years and lots of people have had success with it. What better car to test it on than a Lancia?

Ed

[SubGothius]

BTW... People in Italy call our car a LanCHAJust curious, did you literally mean "Lan-CHA" (short-a, 2nd syllable emphasis) or "LON-cha" (a-as-in-father, 1st syllable emphasis)? Myself, I admit I tend to say LON-chya, which sounds less mistakable for "Lancer" and a bit more familiar to those old enough to remember seeing dealership signs that seemed to say "LAN-see-uh". At any rate, I think it's properly said like "Launcher" without the "r", non? :?:

P.S. Could be an amusing poll -- "How do you say 'Lancia'?" :lol:

[John O]

P.S. Could be an amusing poll -- "How do you say 'Lancia'?" :lol:

Careful what you wish for, we might get a thread like this:

http://www.mirafiori.com:8080/forumdemo/nonmembers/index.cgi?do=showmsg&conf=Gener._F_I_&msg=96052

8)

John O.

[ecohen2]

It sounded like Lan-CHA from the car folks... The "cia" in Lancia is like the cia in ciao. Its a cross between a cha and a sha sound.. Nobody knew what a lan-see-uh was.. The emphasis was on teh CHA part of it...

I stopped and asked a couple of places for models, t-shirts or parts and they all kind of chuckled when I told them what the car was. The best guy was from a toy shop who remembered the car and could not believe I had one.

Ed

[A1.6HPE]

Hello,
Don't start down the pronunciation route!

BTW... People in Italy call our car a LanCHA
To be consistent one would have to say Italia. So don't say Lancia as the Italians do unless you go all the way and refer to the capital of Italia as Roma, etc, etc, etc.

No doubt North Americans will pronounce my 7th word above differently from the way that I do, plus spell centre as center, etc, etc, etc.
If one says "Lancha", one should also say "BMV" and "Dammler Benz"!

Count me out of this one, Leo

[Frezer]

Over here in the Netherlands people also tend to call it LanSia, but indeed, Italians say lanCHa (with the first "a" a little longer than the last).

Regarding the rust subject. A method that does work, and that is also based on (very small) current, is mounting zink blocks against the bare metal. Because of the potential difference between steel and zink, the zink starts to corrode first because it is less noble(I don't know the right English word, this is a direct traslation from Dutch), on behalf of the steel. This is a common method used on ships and other large under-water constructions. I don't know why nobody uses it on cars, maybe the more complex structure that prevents very small currents to flow easily.

Cheers, Merijn

[Will]

On the original thread:
My ex-partner and I bought a bobcat in the early 90's that has a similar device- touted as the be-all-end-all for agricultural or mining equipment that had to sit outside in the mud.

There was only ONE SLIGHT PROBLEM with it.

This type of equipment isn't used every day, and our machine would sit quietly for a few weeks and drain the battery dead as a post.

Maybe it works if you have it in something that's operated every day to allow the battery to charge up nicely, but even then you might want a deep cycle job or second cell.

Or, I guess you could plug in the vehicle to a trickle charger. That's too much work for me, or at least requires a degree of forethought I'm not willing to undertake. Rather, we pulled the hot lead off the offending item and sprayed the edges of the machine and bucket with cold galvanizing compound, which leads into the second part of the above thread re: zinc.

Zinc is better when it coats all of the metal's surface- cold galvanizing is basically a zinc-rich paint that you can spray in places like inside your door and rocker panels. It works pretty good from what I can tell.

Can't say the same of the anticorrosive electrolytic device, since we lost patience with it pretty early in the game.

[John O]

Ya, I was thinking about the battery consumption. Would probably be fine for my X which I drive most days, but for the cars we have which get driven around maybe once a month??? So, I'd have a battery tender keeping the battery charged up while the rust do-hicky drains it down. I'd never remember to keep it all set-up.

John O.

[ecohen2]

Yeah, I am not sure about it. I really would like to keep my car rust free, but the thought of having it stripped down, zinc'd and then repainted seems like overkill. If I had my choice of moving to a desert or spending $200 on this thing I would move, but since I have to stay here I might spend the $200 and trickle charge the battery.



Ed

[Wallace]

It's a while since I did chemistry at school - but I thought the "sacrificial anode" bit (eg attatching lumps of zinc to the body) only works if the steel to be protected is sharing the same electrolyte - eg it will only stop it rusting if it's imersed in water !!

[ecohen2]

I think you are correct about that... Otherwise the zinc would not prevent oxidation.

Some body shops will do a zinc undercoating, so everything under the paint is sealed in zinc. This works until you scratch through the paint and the zinc or if they don't dry the car properly before painting it..

Ed

[Frezer]

It's a while since I did chemistry at school - but I thought the "sacrificial anode" bit (eg attatching lumps of zinc to the body) only works if the steel to be protected is sharing the same electrolyte - eg it will only stop it rusting if it's imersed in water !!
Aah, that was the problem with it. Thanks!

[Will]

For long term storage, have you thought about a hyperbaric bag and dessicant tray?

For little stuff like heads, I wrap 'em up in Cortec. Works great!


PS> I just took heat for my "general lack of politeness" on the Scorpion Yahoo list, so I'm trying to be more laid back. How's "have you thought about" in context above? Please help me not be an asshole ha ha....

"Have you considered trying 4x98mm wheels on your FIAT?"

" I wonder what would happen if one added a headlight relay?"

" Perhaps turning the knob inside the back edge of the roof would cause it to release upwards?"

How's that?......OK, I'm still an asshole then. :( can't change my spots.

[Hamish]

And why should you worry Will :?: No point in changing your spots now.... this insufferable "you're terribly rude" culture is something I encounter a lot on many angling websites. I am also a correspondent in a well known UK fishing magazine so at times I have to "moderate" my language a bit but the inent in my reports remains the same - just hidden a wee bit by using big words :twisted:

Live and let live - if it's a square call it a square etc etc

Daily rant over :oops: :wink:

[John O]

PS> I just took heat for my "general lack of politeness" on the Scorpion Yahoo list, so I'm trying to be more laid back. Laid back is okay, but I don't know what that really has to do with politeness. Ya, like we're all supposed to be "chill" now or we're just another bung hole. I can screw that while I'm sucking on my gin & tonic. Tell it the way you feel, Will. One man's "rudeness" is another's "directness".

John O.

[ecohen2]

Ok this maybe way too serious for this forum, but I just had a conversation about forum with a guy in my office.

I made the point that people write stuff and based on where they are from it may seem completely ok, but based on where other people are from they take it as being rude. The internet is making our culture more uniform by not allowing us to have our regional differences...


Just a thought...

[Wallace]

Don't worry about it Will - your advice and technical knowledge is (almost . .) always 100% spot on - and we all know that your posts
tend to be to the point and no offence is ever intended. .. .

Maybe newbies to the forum should read some old posts to "get the feel" of how people are - then they'll hopefully get some ideas of what all our personalities are like and not take offence when people are just being themselves . .

[Tony K]

It's a while since I did chemistry at school - but I thought the "sacrificial anode" bit (eg attatching lumps of zinc to the body) only works if the steel to be protected is sharing the same electrolyte - eg it will only stop it rusting if it's imersed in water !!
Aah, that was the problem with it. Thanks!

Yes - the two of you are correct. For it to work out of the water, you would pretty much have to attach a sacrificial anode every few inches . . . or store your Lancia underwater! :wink:

Zinc plating/galvanizing is like covering the entire thing with a sacrificial anode . . .