Delta headlights on a scorpion [Archive]

John O

18th November 2005, 11:53 AM

Has anyone done this? I was thinking the Delta large / small headlight combo would look great- possibly use the grille too? What do you think?I though about this as well as standard Monte headlights too when I first got my Scorpion, BUT ultimately they are too difficult to source twice, if you know what I'm saying. A single well placed stone can ruin an expensive headlight or trash a rare plasic grill. It made more sense to go the old fashioned route and source late Beta pieces. There are still enough parts out there that if I want to hoard an extra grill, it can be found without breaking the bank. If a 5 1/2" lens gets cracked, I can pick up a new set on eBay without too much trouble or expense. It really depends on how practical you want you car to be.

John O.

EVO92

18th November 2005, 12:36 PM

Guys,

Using Delta headlights is certainly a bad idea, they are already rare as rocking horse sh.. I already got spares for mine as i could see this coming.

Suggest going with whatever Andrew offers or making something up using lights from another manufacturer (In fact some Delta's are now driving around with VW lights as they are similar).

Regards,
Martin

18th November 2005, 07:30 PM

I suppose I should clarify my info about Chad's efforts. I don't think he's actually using Delta pieces. I'm certain that he would make sure to source bits that are readily available. But he is developing a quad setup with different sized lamps on each side.

Cheers,

Geoff T

21st November 2005, 02:09 AM

I am currently awaiting a quad headlight kit from Omicron. I understand that they have only just been put into production and there are a few teething troubles. From the photos I have seen, I believe they should look good once installed. The lights are standard Hella 3.5 inch units that are readily available in Europe. Not in New Zealand yet!
Will comment again once I have them fitted and operational. Light kit is almost a necessity as I cannot get a decent set of standard RHD lights.

Geoff T.

scorp77

21st November 2005, 05:52 AM

You're right Andrew, I actually have been paying more attention to headlights on regular passenger cars, and tmany VW models do have a similar setup, which I may check out.

Will

21st November 2005, 09:19 AM

Granted the Scorpion headlights are a bit wonky, but the Monte trapezoidal headlights are such beautiful units, and integrate so well with the bodywork, that I'm always amazed that so many people whose cars already HAVE Monte lights would add dual-round lamps.

And yet I've never seen anyone do rectangular with rounded corners (look at an early '80's Dodge Pickup), which at least has the potential to sylistically appear integral with the Scorpicarlo nose.

Furthermore, there seems to be an almost limitless number of scorpicarlo owners who rip out the tail lights and add round "want-to-be-F-car" tail lights.

Granted taste is subjective, but why do so many people want to make a great design look like a kit car instead?

John O

21st November 2005, 07:41 PM

Granted the Scorpion headlights are a bit wonky

Wonky? They're an esthetic mess. Down, they make the front end look like it's recovering from a death in the family. Up, they destroy two important lines: the one hip line that runs the length of the car and the beautiful sweep of the nose band. It's not that I mind pop-up headlights, I actually like them when they are a fully committed part of a design. These are just so obviously not any part of the designers orginal intentions that they just look weak and wrong.

but the Monte trapezoidal headlights are such beautiful units

Not having seen how they function, I'm going to take a wild guess. For as nice as they look, do they actually throw a lot of light? I'm going to guess not. Probably the same reason the 037 doesn't use them, they don't perform as well as a quad set-up can. Having owned a couple cars with quad headlights, I can vouch that I've never had better lighting.

And yet I've never seen anyone do rectangular with rounded corners (look at an early '80's Dodge Pickup), which at least has the potential to sylistically appear integral with the Scorpicarlo nose.

Also has the same potential to make it look more like a cheap Delorean. LOL

Furthermore, there seems to be an almost limitless number of scorpicarlo owners who rip out the tail lights and add round "want-to-be-F-car" tail lights.

Sorta like those folks who run 5 spoke wheels to maybe give their cars a hint of Maranello? :wink:

John O.

SubGothius

21st November 2005, 10:06 PM

Granted the Scorpion headlights are a bit wonky
Wonky? They're an esthetic mess.
FWIW, I gather US headlight-height regs are the only reason for the Scorp. popup setup -- it was either that, or raise the whole front of the car by that much 8O.

And yet I've never seen anyone do rectangular with rounded corners (look at an early '80's Dodge Pickup), which at least has the potential to sylistically appear integral with the Scorpicarlo nose.
Also has the same potential to make it look more like a cheap Delorean. LOL
Giugiaro's design (John Z. just built and sold it ;) ) had quad rectangulars; I think Will meant the larger, oblong, hi-lo-combo sealed-beam units (as used on most later-model popups, for instance). I've wondered myself how those might look in place of the Scorp's stock round units, retaining the popup bits; perhaps most folx contemplating the same have decided that going for the quad conversion is no less complex, plus proven attractive and eliminates the popup bits altogether to boot?

Furthermore, there seems to be an almost limitless number of scorpicarlo owners who rip out the tail lights and add round "want-to-be-F-car" tail lights.
Sorta like those folks who run 5 spoke wheels to maybe give their cars a hint of Maranello? ;)
...or how about those who change their Scorpicarlo (dig that, BTW) from its lovely and period-accurate original hue like, say, metallic minty-fresh green (saw a photo of one like that and loved it), respraying to a "Hey, look over here officer!" bright rossa? ;) FWIW, at least in light of the rarity of replacement rear valence grilles and taillamp lenses (esp. in the years before eBay), a taillamp conversion is somewhat excusable...

omicron

22nd November 2005, 02:41 AM

John O

22nd November 2005, 06:48 AM

Unfortunately it only takes a single stone to wreck a headlamp, and with no new RHD replacements, there is little alternative than twin headlamps. If a reflector corrodes it can be resilvered, but if the lens gets smashed, then you're stuck...That was kinda my point. Monte headlights "look" better, but I want to drive a robust car not a fragile art project. If I really want to drive my car and fearlessly go where ever I please, Monte headlights (as nice as they look to some) would have me worrying too much. 5 1/2" H-4/H-1 headlights are still plentiful and highly functional for putting a metric-buttload of light down the road. Late Beta grill and buckets adapt pretty easily AND make the car look like it belongs in the Beta family. One look at Tom McGaffigan's �77 should convince anyone. Kit car? Hardly.

John O.

Will

22nd November 2005, 09:24 PM

[quote="John O"][quote="omicron"]Unfortunately it only takes a single stone to wreck a headlamp, and with no new RHD replacements, there is little alternative than twin headlamps. </quote>

I've NEVER had a stone break a headlamp. And why would you use RHD replacements? (I think Chad's got RHD ones if you want)

<quote>
If a reflector corrodes it can be resilvered, but if the lens gets smashed, then you're stuck...That was kinda my point. Monte headlights "look" better, but I want to drive a robust car not a fragile art project.
</quote>

Then, sadly, you bought the wrong car!

<quote>
If I really want to drive my car and fearlessly go where ever I please, Monte headlights (as nice as they look to some) would have me worrying too much.
</quote>

About what? You might break one? OK, let me think about what I've broken on my car. Hmmmm.....noseband that flew off the first time I hit 100, broken thermoplastic corner, broken tab on that flimsy grill, stock headlight bucket, lower grill that falls apart if you breathe on it, and of course the ubiquitous hanging lamps that rip off a scorpion the first time you nose over a parking curb.

The headlights are arguably the most robust part on the front of the car, and if one was really paranoid about chips, they are practically flat, so they can take invisible shield nicely, which does not work worth a squat on the round lamps.

Let's face it, if you hit anything bigger than a paper cup with the front of a Scorpion (and you likely will unless you've done a thorough brake R&R or you don't drive it much) you will break everthing above the bumper. the scorpion bumper fits nicely under the tail of a lot of other cars, especially a Volvo- which is how I found the PO's brake line stripped in the caliper issue.

<quote>
5 1/2" H-4/H-1 headlights are still plentiful and highly functional for putting a metric-buttload of light down the road.
</quote>

As do the Monte lamps (also H4- surprised?)

<quote>
Late Beta grill and buckets adapt pretty easily AND make the car look like it belongs in the Beta family. </quote>

Actually, you need to fabricate brackets for a Beta install, which makes it about equal to the Monte install in terms of labor.

<quote>
One look at Tom McGaffigan's �77 should convince anyone. Kit car? Hardly.
</quote>

I know Tom and I'm not going to make any negative comments about his car- which actually presents nicely in person. Regarding the Beta light setup in a Scorpion, it doesn't really "fit" due to the different shapes in the outside corners. Some people will not care about or notice this. It would make me crazy, and I'd end up having to fabricate new light panels. I don't remember if Tom had beta panels or made his own, as I was quite buzzed at the tiime and looking mostly at the other end of the car- Tom's ignition is a MSTA bit of work that kinda grabs your attention, and I was also busy taking a lot of mental measurements of clearances relative to the Vx, although Tom's wedges do change things a lot there.

omicron

23rd November 2005, 04:50 AM

Well, European lamps will fit a UK Monte but will dip the wrong way and everyone coming the opposite direction will flash at you. Its not fair that the USA and most of Europe drive on the wrong side of the road!

John O

23rd November 2005, 07:08 AM

I've NEVER had a stone break a headlamp.

Then you are one seriously lucky guy. I've had stones break or crack lamps (headlights and turn lamps) on nearly every car I've ever owned, with the exception of my old Crown Vic and our current Subaru. But then, I drive my cars every day.

noseband that flew off the first time I hit 100, broken thermoplastic corner, broken tab on that flimsy grill, stock headlight bucket, lower grill that falls apart if you breathe on it, and of course the ubiquitous hanging lamps that rip off a scorpion the first time you nose over a parking curb. ,

Ummm ...scratch the "seriously lucky guy" stuff. :wink: Based on all of that, I'd say that The headlights are arguably the most robust part on the front of the car doesn't mean much. LOL

they are practically flat, so they can take invisible shield nicely, which does not work worth a squat on the round lamps.

Yes, this is true. The only round lamps I've gotten the stuff to stick too are my flat lens Auterouch (sp?) lamps. This is perhaps the best argument for the flat Monte lenses.

Let's face it, if you hit anything bigger than a paper cup with the front of a Scorpion you will break everthing above the bumper. the scorpion bumper fits nicely under the tail of a lot of other cars.

LOL. This is funnier than you know. Everything on below the bumper on my Scorp is trashed up. The front bumper on my X is just like the Scorp in that it seems to be designed to dive the car under all hard hazards!!!

Actually, you need to fabricate brackets for a Beta install, which makes it about equal to the Monte install in terms of labor.

Right, but that's still relatively easy in my book. I don't have to weld the nose of some other car onto the Scorp and I don't have to deal with someone like Al Cosentino to get the "missing half of a golden amulet" type of parts to finish the job. Thus, relatively easy - ya know, do-able within my lifetime and low bozo factor.

Regarding the Beta light setup in a Scorpion, it doesn't really "fit" due to the different shapes in the outside corners. Some people will not care about or notice this. It would make me crazy, and I'd end up having to fabricate new light panels.

Ya, they don't quite fill the space in neatly and it will make me crazy too. I really only see the headlight surrounds as a template for patterning a new set of surrounds for the Scorp. Not a big deal. I have access to a lot of scrap thermoforming sheet material, so I'm seeing black ABS as a good material to work with.

It may ultimately come down to my internal mechanism that makes me not want to do what everyone else is doing. You seem to see everyone converting there cars over to quad set-ups, where I see most going the route of the Monte lamps. In truth, I like either over the stock Scorp pop-ups - and the Monte lamps have a certain "holy $#!%" value - but for all the reasons I listed previously, I think my course is set.

John O.

Otto-valvole-per-tutte

23rd November 2005, 10:22 AM

I can remember someone once uset VW Jetta type 1 headlights?

http://is.rely.net/2-670-6943-l-KZ0HZ5bhfysZmaaRluJe8g.jpg

Will

23rd November 2005, 03:34 PM

Well, John- sure. do what you like- if you like the look of quads better personally, that's a valid factor. If cost is a factor, you'd better not like the Monte lights eithert as they are pretty expensive- $900 for my set.

I was just pointing out that if your concerns were fragility or lack of availability, neither is really true. Meaning, the monte lights are pretty durable, can be additionally protected, and they are not so hard to come by. The hard part to come by is actually the mounting spider. One downside to the monte lights is that you do have to cut a hole in the car behind each lamp. Other than that, installing the Montes - or duals- is a similar type of job.

John O

23rd November 2005, 05:39 PM

The hard part to come by is actually the mounting spider

Ya, that's the "missing half of a golden amulet" type of part I was refering to. I played scavenger hunt for 5 years with 124 Coupe for very basic parts, I'm not inclined to repeat that with the Scorpion for obscure parts that are well known to be difficult to source. BTDT.

John O.

Will

25th November 2005, 05:10 PM

I've got a few better connections than the "average" Scorpicarlo owner, but the only part I know of that's truly unavailable NOS or Repro are the stupid plastic strips that trim the tops of the door cards.

For the rest of the "unobtanium" parts that show up from time to time, I employ the "buy ahead" and the "go fish" strategies.

Buy ahead: buy a part when it turns up even if you don't anticipate a need for it in the near future, because it might be tough to find later or it's available cheaply now.

Go fish: find a guy selling a pair of scorion seats you don't need, and inquire whether he happens to have the hood latch or radio antenna you are looking for.

Then the nice thing that happens when you get further and further from stock, is more of your replacement parts are available at home depot ;)

John O

28th November 2005, 10:40 AM

For the rest of the "unobtanium" parts that show up from time to time, I employ the "buy ahead" and the "go fish" strategies. And with those precise strategies, my friend, is how I've ended up with a garage FULL of parts for cars I no longer own!!!! LOL. :lol:

John O.

Otto-valvole-per-tutte

1st December 2005, 09:38 AM

Wonder what headlights those are:

http://montehospital.com/gallery/Series-1-Montecarlos/137AS0003355_1X

Will

1st December 2005, 10:26 AM

Looks like some kind of acrylic or polycarbonate covers or plates fitted over Monte lights, doesn't it?

scorp77

1st December 2005, 02:03 PM

The '05 Ford Mustang headlights have a similar shape to the Monte lenses, but they curve too much to the outsides. I might take some measurements out in the parking lot at lunch tomorrow, but maybe I should ask the owner first!

Will

1st December 2005, 04:51 PM

=" And with those precise strategies, my friend, is how I've ended up with a garage FULL of parts for cars I no longer own!!!! LOL. :lol:

John O.

Well, here's the secret, John:

When you sell your Scorpion to the NS (Will-ism= antonym of PO = Next Sucker), first, open the top and dump in all those Dodge Durango and Jeep parts. Follow it up with misc Toyota, Honda, Nissan "metric" parts. Then seed it with a top layer of old X-1/9 parts (that I know you must have a buttload of) and finally sprinkle on any spare junk scorpion parts you want to get rid if. Advertise the car is "complete with spares" because it is. Spares for Chrysler, Honda, Nissan......

By the time the poor hapless bastard figures out that Grand Cherokee transfer case isn't a spare Scorpion gearbox, you will be jumping for joy in your newfound cavernous expanse of garage space.

If they really chisel you on the price, throw in a shoebox or two of various Lucas electrics (that your local MG enthusiast will ACTUALLY PAY YOU to take away) and a couple of Zenith carbs off a TR-7. That'll screw 'em!

You gotta love newbies! :)

1st December 2005, 09:28 PM

Wonder what headlights those are:

http://montehospital.com/gallery/Series-1-Montecarlos/137AS0003355_1X

I dunno but I don't think I like the look. Actually, I'm sure I don't like the look.

keithwwalker

1st December 2005, 10:06 PM

What I don't like, is that there are plenty of parts still in production that if someone was ambitious enough, they would scavenge these parts and design a kit for our cars.

Why there isn't a 'power pack' - ie an engine/transmission combo developed for the Scorp/Monte is beyond me, maybe the numbers aren't there.

Anyway, I have always liked these headlamps off the Lancia Y, and guess what, they are modern, and available:

http://lancisti.org/albums/Keith-Walker-s-Album/foto_16.jpg
http://lancisti.org/albums/Keith-Walker-s-Album/foto2.jpg

Keith Walker

Will

2nd December 2005, 08:19 AM

Anyway, I have always liked these headlamps off the Lancia Y, and guess what, they are modern, and available:

Keith Walker

...and totally will not fit a Scorpicarlo, so I don't understand what your point is? Unless you are talking about the round fog lights in the second picture, in which case I'd opt for any one of a number of "generic" aftermarket lamps as opposed to actually using OEM Lancia ones, although I guess you could use Y lamps if you really wanted to. I doubt you'd find that a cost effective soution though.

John O

2nd December 2005, 09:59 AM

What I don't like, is that there are plenty of parts still in production that if someone was ambitious enough, they would scavenge these parts and design a kit for our cars.
This is going off in a different direction than Will's observation, but like putting modern wheels on vintage car, I have trouble understanding the impulse to over "modernize" vintage vehicles. To me, owning and driving a vintage car is about enjoying that experience, and not trying to retro-fit a vehicle to become a vintage looking modern vehicle.

That said, all my vintage cars have electronic ignition and other little goodies that makes them more reliable and fun to use, but within a range that doesn't cancel out the car's given character. I think there comes a point in upgrading a car when it's essential character can be washed over or lost with all of the stuff that's been swapped out. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, if your idea is to use a vehicle platform as a starting point to end up with something, by intent, that is not so much like the donor.

I truly repsect the guys who've done Alfa V-6 swaps in their cars and God knows there's butt-loads of room to do it, but at that point I have to ask myself if it's really a Scorp/Monte anymore or is it something else? I don't know the answer, but I know my instincts are different.

Example: If one morning I walked out to my X and thought, "this car could be great with a V-8 in it", I'd be more inclined to figure out how to get the cash together for a Ferrari 308 GT4 than I would to attempt a V-8 swap into an X. Not because it can't be done, but because an X with a V-8 in it misses the point of what an X is naturally good at and would most likely obliterate those characteristics in favor of what the V-8 would impose - simply put, an X with a V-8 in it wouldn't drive like an X anymore, while a GT4 manages to drive similar to an X, yet having the power of a V-8 available. Make sense?

So, I guess what I'm saying is if you like the Lancia Y lights and maybe even the Y's powerplant, doesn't that say that as much as you might like to envsion those features on a Scorp/Monte, it might be time for you to buy a Y instead.

John O.

scorp77

2nd December 2005, 01:39 PM

I knew I'd offend people when I started this post, but I do like to modernize my cars, and give them a unique characteristic. I love seeing bone stock cars as they left the factory, but I also enjoy seeing "restified" cars like TLC Overhaulin' etc.
I sold my last scorpion because it was too original and I didn't want to ruin it. Now that I have one in "less desirable" shape, I don't mind tinkering with it.
You all make valid points about trying to make our cars into something they're not, but I don't feel I'm doing that. The minute my scorpion starts looking like a squished Ferrari 308 (Fiero kit) with the round taillights & gated shifter, I might as well have saved my money & bought the real thing.
That said, when I start seeing scorpions with Fast & the Furious wings & body kits or Lambo doors, I'll change my tune & start going through my parts to bring it back to stock...

Will

2nd December 2005, 02:48 PM

You didn't offend me, I no longer care what other people do to their cars. I just saw Mythbusters on TV last week and they drove two tractor trailers head-on into an X-1/9. Smashed the X like a beer can. It looked like it was in pretty good shape to when the guy who owned it "donated" it to the TV show. Not for nothin', but he should have taken the Cromodoras off first and put on stock X wheel.

But back to "modernization"- you own it, you can do what you want. Just be honest aboput why you are doing it, especially to yourself.

As an example, one Scorp owner posted pics of his scorpion (big rear wing) over at (another forum) and was justifying the installation with said wing by describing how it produced a substantial amount of downforce and thus greatly improved handling. But I couldn't help notice that wing was mounted to the flimsy little louvers in the rear decklid- the ones that you can bend under finger pressure. So how much downforce could it be generating?

IMO if you do something to YOUR car because you like it, just say "Well,I like it so F-You" and by the same token, if you see somebody else did something and say "I think that looks like crap" then so what? Should they get bent out of shape because you think it looks like crap, or isn't what you'd do? Hopefully nobody will look at your car and think or say "That's the fugliest POS I've ever seen", but so what, as long as you like it?

I came right out and said I don't care for the round headlights or taillights, but my opinion's surely not going to change what anybody else does. It's like politics. One person can't make a difference.
;)

John O

3rd December 2005, 08:46 AM

I knew I'd offend people when I started this post, but I do like to modernize my cars, and give them a unique characteristic.
Good God, man - you're going to have to try much harder than THAT to offend me. LOL. All I'm saying is, it's not my way and I don't mind sharing my opinion about why it isn't. I think round headlights look vintage & cool and have a practical side, while Will thinks maybe they look like ass and aren't as beautiful & practical as his $900-to-replace-a-pair trapazoids. I have zero problem with that, he's just letting me know his thoughts on the subject. Women sit around and talk about shoes & clothes - this is our thing. I put a post here in the context of a bunch of guys sitting around a bar table with a pitcher of Yingling (or other) - hard to get too serious or offended in that environment.

John O.

John O

3rd December 2005, 09:13 AM

As an example, one Scorp owner posted pics of his scorpion (big rear wing) <snip> how much downforce could it be generating?

Maybe enough to keep the rear lid from opening at 70 miles an hour :lol:

IMO if you do something to YOUR car because you like it, just say "Well,I like it so F-You" and by the same token, if you see somebody else did something and say "I think that looks like crap" then so what? Should they get bent out of shape because you think it looks like crap, or isn't what you'd do? Hopefully nobody will look at your car and think or say "That's the fugliest POS I've ever seen", but so what, as long as you like it?

I think this is exactly right. Your car, your money, your time spent with it as you please. My buddy Rick collects truly valuable vehicles http://rick.nerds.net/car_all.htm and he smokes in 'em and does whatever the heck he wants to with them including driving them in whatever weather he pleases. There are purists and nut & bolt polishers who give him lots of crap about it. His answer is roughly: "my money, my car, my choices, and anyone is free to pay me double what I paid to save any of my cars from whatever behavior they think offensive". One look at his genuinely rare (though not desirable to me) $60-grand Lincoln K and you'll breath freely making any mods you want to your not-really-that-rare-by-comparison (and only desirable to a few of us) $4-grand Italian "enthusiast" car. Hey, I dig the car, so it's not a put down, just a little perspective.

John O.

bjmarsh

3rd December 2005, 06:53 PM

Well the funky looking US Scorpion headlights really are not �original� as far as the overall Pininfarina design goes. They were a required add on �kludge� to meet US regulations, so replacing them with something else should not offend anybody�s sense of proprietary (not that we have much of that in our community anyway).

The Monte lights are much better integrated into the overall design and �look the business� as our friends across the pond would say. However there seems to differences of opinion on their effectiveness especially as to total light output (maybe in part due to age of some of the original components) but they sure look nice.

Quads are a practical solution to improving light output (at reasonable or unreasonable cost depending on how you get implement them). It�s a reasonable modernization than improves the usability of the car at night. and the round headlights are period correct.

Barry (currently no headlights at all, but considering adding Quads during the rebuild/ restoration)

3rd December 2005, 11:16 PM

Personally, I prefer the quads like on the 037 Rally. That's where I'm ging with mine. Never really cared at all for the Monte lights. They always looked too big to me.

Just one more opinion amongst many I suppose.

Will

4th December 2005, 07:20 AM

As far as light output, I'm sure OEM 30 yr old Monte lights might not be that bright. However, mine with quad relays and 9600K H4's put about as much light down the road as I can imagine is possible without blinding oncoming traffic without using some kind of exotic polarizing lenses.

The 037 does use quad round lamps, but there are a couple of reasons for this:
a) The nose of the 037 is a different shape, monte lamps don't fit.
b) You don't want to "put all your eggs in one basket" on a rally car. If there's any application where you risk breaking lenses, IMO chasing a horde of wide sticky-wheeled monsters down a gravel road at high speed virtually ensures a rock is going to smack something pretty hard. If that's what I were doing, I wouldn't use Monte lights either.
c) The monte lights don't allow as positive a lock to the chassis (one little tiny spring clip) and aren't really suited to super punishing vibratory environments.

But they are of course the unique lamps designed to match the car. Of course, the same can be said of the universally hated S1 wheels, so even I have to admit that it's unreasonable to expect everyone to like them.

My original post wasn't really questioning why Scorpion owners would change to quads (since the scorpion lamps are totally whack), but rather why the MONTE owners would switch to quads. Actual Montes running around with quads is confusing to me, because I wonder whether the owner just doesn't like the Monte lamps or is trying to "037-ise" the Monte.

keithwwalker

5th December 2005, 01:19 AM

You are right Will, for a cost effective solution, no one should go with modern Lancia parts, especially when you are talking about 4 round lamps.

I think instead of sourcing pricey Lancia Delta round lamps most of us could cobble together a great system using aftermarket stuff.

Here is a good source of Hella Lamps:
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/headlamps.asp

I think to be faithful to the design of the Monte/Scorp, the square glass headlights are the thing to have - but I don't want to be original with my Scorpion - I want to modernize it with all FIAT/Lancia parts, that includes the engine and transmission.

Sure it won't be original, but it will be all FIAT/Lancia and if it looks different, so much the better - it's not like original Scorpions values are 'hot', and even more to the point, the production car was substantially 'watered down' from the original Abarth/Pinifarina concept - you name it, no V-6, bad build quality, it is all reflected in the pathetic resale value (which in my opinion is WRONG).

BTW I do have the Y lights - just haven't figured out what to do with them.

Keith Walker

...and totally will not fit a Scorpicarlo, so I don't understand what your point is? Unless you are talking about the round fog lights in the second picture, in which case I'd opt for any one of a number of "generic" aftermarket lamps as opposed to actually using OEM Lancia ones, although I guess you could use Y lamps if you really wanted to. I doubt you'd find that a cost effective soution though.

lars-j

5th December 2005, 07:11 AM

The round Delta Headlight unit is 220,-EUR from FIAT here in Berlin, Germany. Only available as a unit. I got a used one from the scap yard for 15,-EUR, but that was very lucky, I never saw one on Ebay. A cheaper unit with different lamps (bulbs) from the 4WD is available from german parts supplier Bielstein, IIRC 150,-EUR.

Cheers
Lars-J

mogul_x

5th December 2005, 10:31 AM

My original post wasn't really questioning why Scorpion owners would change to quads (since the scorpion lamps are totally whack), but rather why the MONTE owners would switch to quads.

Some of them might like the 037 look, but I think it's also got to do with the cost and availability of replacement parts. RHD lamps are pretty hard to come by, so if a lens gets holed, you might not be able to get a replacement.

As for the LHD montes on quads... even though new lamps are available, they're still expensive! For the price of one lamp, you could almost convert to quads (assuming Beta parts are used) and never have to worry about it again.