Fulvia Coupe vs Giulia Coupe

[zagato]

I am in the mkt for classic. I was offered a Series 1 Fulvia coupe 1.2 have not driven as it is currently being restored. How does the car drive compare to giulia sprint 1600 gt . Anyone has driven both cars? appreciate your opinions.

[omicron]

I am in the mkt for classic. I was offered a Series 1 Fulvia coupe 1.2 have not driven as it is currently being restored. How does the car drive compare to giulia sprint 1600 gt . Anyone has driven both cars? appreciate your opinions.

I haven't driven both cars, but I can't help feeling your comparing two slightly different cars here.

The Fulvia, with its modest 1.2 litre V4 engine and 80hp engine, against an Alfa with a 1600 with significantly more power - 110bhp or so?

Equalising the equation slightly, a period magazine compared a Fulvia 1.3 to a Alfa Giulia 1300GT, and the statistics suggest that ultimate speed was pretty comparable, the Fulvia had better low down acceleration and significantly better economy, all despite on being down on power and torque to the Alfa. The conclusion was that out of the two cars, the journalist would have the Fulvia. These seem to be pretty evenly matched car.

I suspect the only way is to try both and decide from there, although you need an extended test drive to appreciate the subtle differences between both cars.

[zagato]

Thanks for your reply. Is the power difference between Fulvia 1.2 & 1.3 noticeable? What can be done to increase power in 1.2 engine?

[shaun pond]

Hi Zagato,

You have good taste in classics, and I think you can probably be happy with either a Fulvia or an Alfa.

As noted in an earlier reply, the Guilia has more displacement and hence more power and torque. Whether this matters much in the real world depends largely on how and where you'll be using the car.

For example, I ran my Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1.3 with some Alfa GTV 2000s last month during a rally here in Northern California. Notwithstanding a fairly substantial power deficit, I was able to keep pace with them, particularly in the mountains. I probably had to work harder than they did, but that was half the fun.

Had we been on a race track instead of public roads, of course, they probably would have left me for dead.

For what it's worth, I personally ended up with my Fulvia rather than an Alfa couple for a few other reasons:

First, I'm fairly tall (6'3") and I found that I fit the Fulvia better than the GTV. Both have the classic Italian arms-out-legs-bent driving position, and they look similar in size, but somehow the headroom/legroom/pedal spacing of the Lancia suits me better.

Second, I drove both (both in my case meaning the Fulvia and a 74 GTV2000). Both handle well, but I was intrigued by the front wheel drive nimbleness of the Lancia. And the Fulvia's 1.3 liter motor seemed more responsive, seemed to get its revs much quicker than the Alfa's 2.0 liter motor.

Last, while Alfas of this vintage aren't that thick on the ground, the Fulvia is several orders of magnitude less common than the Alfa here. So it's easier to me to find the Lancia in parking lots.

I'll leave it to someone more expert to answer your specific questions about the 1.2 vs the 1.3 motors and how to mod them.

But I don't think we're talking a huge difference, at least on paper: The "Lancia Fulvia and Flavia" Collector's Guide indicates that the 1st Series 1.2 motor was rated at 80bhp @ 6000rpm, while the 1.3 had 87bhp @6,000rpm and the 1.3S 90bhp at 6,200rpm.

All really subjective stuff, Zagato. Try to drive examples of both. Then pick one and go have fun.

Regards,

Shaun Pond

[omicron]

Thanks for your reply. Is the power difference between Fulvia 1.2 & 1.3 noticeable? What can be done to increase power in 1.2 engine?

Well there are things that can be done, but all these modifications tend to make the engine less road friendly, especially in towns. It depends just how you want to use the car and what sacrifices you are prepared to make.

The Fulvia engine, compared to a lot of Ford, GM or other engines in small cars is already fairly highly developed. Its already running twin carbs, its already got a twin overhead camshaft head whereas a lot of engines of this period had a single carb, a single cam head and were much cruder in comparison.

Some people have obtained, or built up 1300 engines - these in standard trim have 10bhp more and about 8lb ft more torque. They can be tweaked a little more without too much of a compromise in low speed ability. A 1600 can be sourced with difficulty.

If you went for the 1200 Fulvia, I wouldn't dispose of the 1.2 engine as people like the ability to preserve originality. They are quite rare now.

Suggest a phone call to discuss things properly.

Virtually everyone who has ever had a Fulvia has extremely fond memories of it, but I would recommend trying one to see if its the car for you. Whereabouts are you?

[zagato]

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback. I am based in sunny Malaysia. Omicron, is there any cam or performance exhaust that I can install to increase power& torque? I am really using the car for fast road & occassional rallying.

[omicron]

We have an exhaust which we're very happy with, which gives a good increase over standard, the compromise is noise - its louder than a normal Fulvia exhaust.

We have a number of cam profiles and can help select what we hope would be the best one for you.

I'd have to check the parts books, but its likely the 1.2 has a cast manifold with single pipe downpipe rather than the better 4-2 tubular manifold of the later cars and 2-1 downpipe.

The performance version of the Fulvia 1.2 - the Fulvia HF (now better known as the 1.2HF to differentiate between the later 1.3HF and 1.6HF) received the tubular manifold and that, together with different carbs and cams gave an 8bhp difference (for the road version). The main way performance was increased was a severe diet - bumpers removed, doors, bonnet & boot replaced with aluminium versions, side and rear glass replaced with plexiglass and weight saving measures to the interior trim as well.

For competition use we have some cams and exhaust which would increase power further.

[ecoangel]

Probably the fastest 1.2 Fulvia Coupe on the planet: 141 HP claimed.

http://www.dorscheid-sportwagen.de/angeb/angeb.html

I think he wants to sell the car - but suspect it isn't really a useful roadcar!

[Zag]

Hi,

I have currently a Fulvia Sport (1,3S 90 hp) and have owned (parallel) an early Alfetta GTV 2000, which isn't the same as a Giulia but motor-wise comes near and should have better road-holding (on paper at least). The two cars are very different indeed. Of course the GTV has plenty of torque and the low-revs allow nice cruising, certainly good for "lazy" shifters. However I found that the engine power came back with a bite on wet(-ish) surfaces, with the rear breaking out at the least unweighed throttle, which is kind of nice if you're alone on the road, but I appreciated it moderately as I used to drive in heavy traffic. In light snow I found the car useless (which will probably not be an issue for you...

So I have sticked to the Fulvia which will require some high revs, but which has never discomforted me in terms of road-holding, even with its rigid rear axle and leaf suspension. And as for practicability, I have just covered 2000-odd miles this year, much of it with my wife, baby-son in the back (installed seat belts), and luggage for weekend trips, whithout a problem.

The Fulvia's are delightful, even Berlina's (with 1,2 engine) I have driven are exquisite in their own way (softer suspension than Coupe or Sport).
Remember the Giulia Bertone 1,3 and the Fulvia Coupe 1,3 cost exactly the same in the period, but Lancia went bust. Probably their margins were lower than Alfa's as a result of costlier production (many cast-aluminium items, very nice but expensive engine build etc.).

Personnally, if it is for simply enjoying classic-car driving, I would settle for the Fulvia, try the 1,2 which will not necessarily disappoint you (it has lower end-gear than the 1,3 to allow similar accelerations). If you want to go for more HP, you can easily interchange it for a 1,3 or 1,3S (first series), there's plenty of possibilities to tweak it (many well-established companies who will do that for you). But that will go at a cost, money-wise and technically as it will need a compromise on things such as comfort, driver-friendliness etc. Few Fulvista do that because the standard car in itself has a very nice balance of all these parameters.

Regards

[HFil]

There's an interessanats face to face in a old italian magazine with The Lancia Fulvia 1.3s 2s Vs Alfa Giulia Gt 1.3, both with 90hp and this is the result, Alfa is more fast on high speed with better wind design, but Fulvia is more fast in all rest and have bettere times in slalom run, and better velocity on lateral circle

0-100 km/h
- Fulvia Coupè 1.3s : 11,2 sec
- Alfa Gt Junior: 12,3 sec

1 km from standing
- Fulvia Coupè 1.3s : 33,3 sec (exit speed 151,1)
- Alfa Gt Junior: 33,9 sec (exit speed 149,5)

Max speed
- Alfa Gt 1.3: 173 km/h
- Fulvia 1.3s 168 km/h

Brakes a 100 km/h
- Fulvia Coupè 1.3s: 50,3 mt
- Alfa Gt Junior: 52,3 mt

Time on ascent road (3,2km)
- Fulvia Coupè 1.3s: 2'18.6
- Mini Cooper:: 2'19.7
- Fiat 128 Coupè: 2'20.8
- Alfa Gt Junior: 2'25.6

Time of Passing
- Fulvia Coupè 1.3s: 3"91
- Alfa Gt Junior: 4"61

Slalom
- Alfa Gt Junior: 11"39
- Fulvia Coupè 1.3s: 11"40

There was also some date in old italian magazines of Lancia Fulvia 1.6HF (115cv) and Alfa Giulia Gt 1.6 (109cv), and difference are much strong than in 1.3 versions for advantage the Fulvia: in many cases for found a correct Alfa rivals of Fulvia 1.6HF, You must get Giulia Gt 1750Gtv and in many times the Gt2000cc