Beta Water Pump Blues

[Betazag]

Hello all. I need some advice. Two days before a local road rally, my water pump went out in my 82 Beta Zagato. I have all the repair manuals and decided to take on the task myself even though I am just a shade tree mechanic. I got to the point in the manual where it said to take off the timing belt cover(small metal one, not the big yellow plastic one) and I was dissapointed to see that it does not look like an easy job. It appears that I have to remove the timing belt tensioner nut...any concern that my timing belt will reposition if I do this? Also, I am afraid that this cover will not come off unless I take off all belts and pulleys around it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am almost ready to pay the big bucks for someone to complete this for me. Thanks, MR

[sickchilly]

The cover does come off, but it's a very tight squeeze. On mine, I have to remove the fuse box from the firewall and life the cover out that direction, right up against the firewall, sort of twisting it to one side.

If yours still has FI and AC, you may need to loosen the AC hose brackets to move them a bit and remove the ignition module/coil.

It helps to have long fingers and skinny hands too. ;)

Be persistant though, it will come out of there. I think removing the fuse box is the secret though.

[Betazag]

Thanks for the advice Trent but I think you are talking about the big yellow timing belt cover...that is already off. I am talking about the black metal cover at the bottom of the timing belt...the water pump is partially behind this cover...one part of it is held on by the timing belt tensioner nut...one of the water pump bolts holds the cover also. MR

[sickchilly]

Oh, nevermind then! When you said not the big yellow timing cover, I assumed you had a big aluminum one like mine. That's why I was puzzled as to why you couldn't get it off! 8)

So you mean the sheetmetal around the crank pulley then? Well that one is a biatch and a half. Luckily it's a 2-liter only thing. Mine doesn't have it. The FIAT's were plagued with the same thing. You have two choices. Hack it off or remove the crank pulley. Once most people get this thing off, they leave it off. Makes it so you don't have to remove the crank pulley the next time!

[Betazag]

Well, after spending a few hours fixing my seat backs and getting them reinstalled (leather wasn't sticking around the edges and the plastic was broken in places) I looked under the front and noticed water/coolant leaking out. Bridget had sat for about a week so this wasn't a good sign. The water pump is now leaking, I think it is on it's last leg. I want to ask this question again; will the metal cover that is bolted to the water pump come off without having to take off the timing belt tensioner and/or the crank shaft pulley? The reason I question it is because one of these covers was on ebay and when I took a look at it off the engine, it looked like it might curve around these pulleys while not being fastened by them. Can someone help me here before I take this on? Also a question about the water rail that bolts on to the water pump; can this wedged off to remove the water pump without removing the bolt located under the distributor that holds it down? I don't think the water rail would have to move very much but I wouldn't want to damage it and make it leak of course. Shorcuts are so much easier if you can get away with them! Thanks for any advice. Mark R

[Pope1]

Mark,

Must admit I am not completely sure which metal cover you are referring to but here is the good news as I see it. I have changed the water pump on my VX (twice) WITHOUT having to disturb the timing belt and tensioner at all. My car does not have AC so I'm not sure what effect that has on things.

The cover that you are referring to isn't the water pump pulley by any chance? That does have to come off, and can be a little awkward due to the limited space, but can be done without any drama.

Regarding the metal pipe, I had to undo the bolt at the gearbox end to allow the pipe to flex sufficiently without doing damage. I would NOT recommend trying to wedge it off the pump without releasing the other end first. It's just one bolt as I recall and it makes a big difference to how much the pipe will move.

Hope that helps. Shout if you need more specific info.

[Betazag]

Hey Chris. I have taken the water pump pulley off with a little persuation. The metal cover that I refer to is not on all Betas from what I understand. I have an 82 with a 2 liter engine. Not sure which models have it. It basically protects the belts from debris I guess. I was hoping someone would tell me that it would come off with just a few bolts! As far as the bolt holding the water rail on the tranny side; can you get to it underneath or do you have to move a lot of stuff out of the way from above...ie: battery tray, air meter etc.? Thanks, Mark

[johnnyb]

Mark,
I have the head off of my 2.0 right now and there are 2 bolts holding the water rail at the tranny end of the block. They are easily accessed by removing the battery tray w/air meter.
John

[Pope1]

Hey Chris. I have taken the water pump pulley off with a little persuation. The metal cover that I refer to is not on all Betas from what I understand. I have an 82 with a 2 liter engine. Not sure which models have it. It basically protects the belts from debris I guess. I was hoping someone would tell me that it would come off with just a few bolts! As far as the bolt holding the water rail on the tranny side; can you get to it underneath or do you have to move a lot of stuff out of the way from above...ie: battery tray, air meter etc.? Thanks, Mark

Glad you managed to get the pulley off. I now understand about the metal plate. My car doesn't have one, instead it has a 2-piece plastic liner that fits right inside the fender and is screwed in place. How is that metal cover fastened?

John is quite correct and my apologies for saying there was only 1 bolt at the tranny end.

[Betazag]

Chris, one bolt fastens the cover and water pump to the block. Another bolt fastens the cover to the block. These are the only two bolts that I can see that hold the cover. But like I said, the cover goes behind the timing belt tensioner and the crank shaft pulley and I can't tell if these have to come off to remove the cover. It won't budge though even with the two bolts removed. Someone suggested cutting the cover off. It would be messy and difficult to do that. But if I could get this cover off, I am in the clear and can do the job myself and save some moola. I am definately going to have to put it in a shop (of Horrors) if the TB tensioner and drive shaft pulley has to come off. Anyone out there have one of these metal covers that you could email me a pic of? That would at least show me what I am up against. Thanks, Mark R

[Pope1]

Mark, I assume that the metal cover is the same thing that was mentioned here

http://lancisti.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1803

Someone posted a photo but I cannot get the link to work. Maybe you could post a request in that thread too.

[Betazag]

Hey Chris. The cover you last refered to is not the one I am talking about. I feel that the crank shaft pulley as well as a few other things will have to come off to get this little roadblock out of the way. I have talked to a mechanic that is eager to take one of my legs in return for replacing my water pump. :lol: Hey, I am ready to get Bridget back on the road where she belongs. MR

[Pope1]

Well at least it wasn't an arm and a leg :D .

Would appreciate a photo of said cover at some stage if possible please. Your car sounds radically different to mine in that area so I'm curious to actually take a peek.

On the basis of "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours" here's a glimpse of what mine looks like with the fender liner removed.
http://home.caribsurf.com/chrysalis/pump.jpg

Now I've found this photo, I'm wondering whether you were referring to the metal piece in front of the pump where the brake lines run 8O.

[Betazag]

C:\Documents and Settings\Mark Raines\My Documents\My Pictures\cover.jpg[img]

[Betazag]

Well, I finally had my water pump replaced. The drive shaft pulley does have to come off to remove the water pump. My friend/mechanic was putting the drive shaft pulley back on and the timing belt slipped when he was tightening the nut, so he had a time getting everything lined back up again. I will try and post a pic of the timing belt cover plate again...my first time failed. MR