exhaust

[jp]

can anyone tell me where I can get a performance exhaust for an 82 Zagato? International does not have anything. I put a K & N filter in and now of course I really hate the stock exhaust!

Nothing is more amusing than to come out of Target and see 6 people standing around "Livia" checking her out and asking questions...

JP

[sickchilly]

There really isn't anything wrong with the stock late model FI exhaust. It already has a very well-flowing 4-2-1 setup from manifold to down pipe. You can take it to any exhaust shop on the planet and have a new center pipe made up, a flow master type muffler forward of the fuel tank crossways and finally a nice resonator with chrome tip just aft of the left rear tire. Flows great, sounds great, easier to source parts and all done locally.

One place you can improve things is to put a flex coupling (like the ones used on modern FWD cars) between the center pipe and down pipe to take care of engine flex which some times causes cracks in the down pipe.

[Gregory Smith]

Trent's right, a stock engine, even a 2l, will do fine with a stock exhaust. Occasionally they come up used or NOS on eBay. Many of these have a twin outlet which can be hard to fit in the single outlet cutout in the rear valence, usually they get hung lower in the rear.

As for K&N filters, you might want to study this report:
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

K&N filters are a good idea in that you can wash, oil and reuse them, but as far as protecting your engine, they may not be as good as an old-fashioned paper element, and may not flow very well once they get partly soiled. None of this may make a bit of difference your engine's lifespan. I ran a K&N filter in my Scirocco for 13 years, but who knows if it lasted as long or not because of it? The one thing I do know is I spent an awful lot on cleaner and oil for the thing.

[badboyboogzy]

if your prepared to wait for about 2 months you can have my whole ansa twin pipe setup from the 421 back as im changeing to a straght thru stainless otherwise try remus exahusts my ansa is in great nick it just seems to me to be to restrictive as it gos thru a silencer then a back box left right left right out thru a muffler seems silly when i can just go from the 421 straght to the muffler and whammo 20 ponies and more burble throaty growl but the ansa is second hand and remus can make anything for anything being german they seem to know what they are doin a guy here got a full remus setup including 41 headers and man alive it sounds like a ferrari and the flow was work out to be 70% better than standard and 59% better than ansa bassically i rekon go to a jap tuner and say put a preformance exhaust on there please with mandrel bending nothings simpler
renay
bbb

[jp]

thanks for the feedback, given that I drive the Zagato only 5 months a year, abut 3K, I guess it sounds like I should not worry about K&N??

JP

[Gregory Smith]

Well 3K a year won't put much wear on it, K&N filter or not, that's for sure.

I had the same realization when getting new tires for the Budget Zagato recently. I had a difficult time trying to explain to the salesman that the various mileage warranties didn't sway me much, since I use it mostly for pleasure driving and would likely not reach the warranty mileage before the tire is old and cracked.

[sickchilly]

I had the same realization when getting new tires for the Budget Zagato recently. I had a difficult time trying to explain to the salesman that the various mileage warranties didn't sway me much, since I use it mostly for pleasure driving and would likely not reach the warranty mileage before the tire is old and cracked.

Hmmm... they just looked at mine and said, "WTF is that?" Then another said, "bitchin' interior, dood."

[SubGothius]

I'm still tempted to try this idea for a custom exhaust: Stock 4-2-1 header (replacing my Cali garrote 4-1 header :evil: ) -- I've read that the FIAT stock 4-2-1s are about equal to custom headers, albeit less loud, so would imagine the same goes for Lancia 4-2-1s;
Max-Flow honeycombed catalyst (http://SportsCarConverters.com/);
Unmuffled mandrel-bent pipe from the cat back;
SuperTrapp muffler tip (http://supertrapp.com/) -- some have claimed SuperTrapps are too noisy/raspy, but I suspect that impression comes mostly from the example of peacocking racers who've installed only the shortest/loudest ST models and bolted in as many diffuser discs as will fit (thus increasing volume and high-rpm power at the expense of low-end torque and a mellower note). I'm still not sure which exact ST model I'd get, been meaning to email them for suggestions to meet my objective: a mellow, throaty exhaust note, nothing too raspy or "flatulent". :P
Also, I concur on the K&N issue; even for reusable, freer-flowing filters, one can do better -- e.g., Airaid (http://airaid.com/) and also S&B (http://sbfilters.com/) (the latter appears to be what Redline Weber (http://redlineweber.com/) resells) seem to offer a superior, well-developed and thoroughly modern product, whereas K&N (or rather, whatever corporate conglomerate bought them out) seems to have rested on their early laurels and then spent most of their capital and profits on little more than profuse advertising and retail market saturation, rather than improving their actual product over the years. Seriously, hold a K&N up to a light, and you can actually see pinholes of light shining through; that may not sound like much of concern, but that's the size of dust particles that can pass thru the filter, and I'd rather not accumulate microscopic pitting on my valves and seats, not to mention getting dirtier oil quicker... 8O BTW, those overpriced filter reconditioning kits can be replaced by a cheaper treatment of Simple Green (or the rival, purple stuff that I gather is a more potent solvent), rinse and dry, followed by a light-grade, tacky lubricant oil (a la chainsaw oil).

For disposable paper filters, based on the same test you reference, I liked the balance of characteristics demonstrated by the Wix; I'm thinking of getting an olde-skoole, open-sided pie-tin style air cleaner housing (the biggest that will fit underhood -- more filter surface area = freer airflow) and going with either a Wix paper element or the aforementioned Airaid or S&B elements.

[badboyboogzy]

that little diddy you said there sounds like a plan to me 4-2-1 pipe - cat -freflow tomuffler of any design like a signal one or even a new titainium one big trotty warble sound and you meet the smog reqiurements with the cat i just have to ssay that i wish i still hd mu stock exhaust and not forked out all the money i did for a complete ansa system it ws a waste of mney they are crap
bbb

[dmurrell]

I was having some problems with all of the joints in the stock exhaust manifold and tried unsuccessfully to find a header. I eventually saw one come up in eBay for an 1800 (I think it was an ANSA). Anyway, since it touched the firewall I was faced with either a) modifying the header b) modifying the firewall with a BFH.

I chose to lengthen the downpipes for all the cylinders by welding in short extensions. I also had to weld in a bung for the o2 sensor. Then I sent the entire new header (after a test fit) to Jet Hot to have it coated.

I removed the entire center section of the exhaust and had a shop put together a new middle section including a performance catalytic converter.

So now all I have muffling the sound is the final stock muffler. It sounds pretty good and flows really well! I'm not sure it sounds exactly like I want, but it is pretty good!

Regards,
Dave

[SubGothius]

FWIW, the SuperTrapp I mentioned isn't a normal free-flow or "sport/performance" muffler; indeed, it isn't a typical-design inline muffler at all. It serves as both a muffler and very sporty-looking tip, and fits on the very end of the exhaust pipe, taking up the final 10-24" (depending on which ST model you get) at the tail end. That muffling tip contains a stack of "diffuser discs", which provide the muffling effect, and which you can change/fine-tune on-the-fly. Adding more disks creates a larger, less-restricted stack of diffused openings, which means less back-pressure, more high-RPM peak HP (at the expense of low-RPM torque) and louder exhaust; removing discs creates a smaller, more-restricted stack of openings, which means greater back-pressure, more low-RPM torque (at the expense of high-RPM power) and quieter exhaust. Thus, you can fine-tune the power/torque/noise characteristics of your exhaust yourself, and change those characteristics at-will as needed (e.g. for street-driving vs. track/racing days).

And no, they're not paying me to say this; I don't work for them. ;) Just seems like a nifty and intriguing idea, that's all. :D

[Will]

Here's (part of) what I learned about Zagato exhausts :

a) Get the exhaust from a FI car- It's already got a 4-2-1.

b) The FI cars don't NEED a cat- they have a center muffler and then a seperate resonator in the back. You can do away with the first (center) muffler and replace it with a slot tube or glass pack just to take the bite off the shock wave, and then throw a $50 muffler/tp combo on the back. Ask Bob Goldberg about the $50 unit, I think he found it somewhere real common, like Pep Boys.

c) DO take out the upper and lower manifold sections and weld them together. The bolt securing them is for shite and damn near impossible to replace. They do weld, you just need to grind the edges or clean them up with a flap sander first and then use maximum voltage with a slow wire feed so you are penetrating the cast iron (or steel, not sure which) deep enough.

d) DO put a flex joint in place of the spring-device. If you are too cheap to do this, DON'T OVERTIGHTEN the nuts on the springs!!!!!~
If you do, and then pump enough power through the drivetrain, you will find the exhaust manifold ripped off your head and your head pouring oil!
BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!!!!

e) You can capitalize on the FI 02 sensor/bung to set up your carb. It works. If you want a snazzy wideband, there are under $200 now.


f) If you are going to add a catalytic converter, watch the temperatures. Some of these free-flow 2 way cats don't run very cool, and catching the bottom of your car on fire would suck.


Hope this helps.