Beta 2.0ie

[Skufy]

My coupe hasn't moved for months, at least 6 possibly 9. Old battery back on + slight oil top up and away she goes, what fantastic lttle cars these are. A quick blast and everything seems ok. - Just thought it might be of interest as things have been a bit quite on the forum.

[SubGothius]

Thx, Skufy! That's reassuring to know, as my own Zag has been laid up since Thanksgiving (late-November banquet holiday in the States) with a slipped timing belt (http://lancisti.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1292), now safely back at home again where I can finish the t-belt work I started on it back in late January (very long story about where it's been in the meantime and why I haven't finished the job before now). If all goes smoothly with the t-belt and tensioner bearing refitting, it should fire right up for me, non? 8)

[Pope1]

It should fire up but may take some time to do so. After a few weeks without use, mine normally takes a bit of cranking then a pause of a minute or two before a second round of cranking does the trick. Hope all goes well Tye.

[Skufy]

My 1600 car model took some cranking but that was more porous pipes and finally the petrol pump. The ie went straight away, only problem looks like a rear brake light. Come on, get those cars running.

[A1.6HPE]

After being parked up for a while the carburettor cars always need the float chamber filled before they will fire up, hence the long cranking period. An injection car benefits from virtually instant pressurisation from the high pressure (18psi) electrical pump. Fit an electrical pump to a carburettor car and you avoid that horrible long cranking activity. I say horrible 'cause the oil pressure will not get much build up. If you only use a Beta occasionaly it is worth fitting an electrical pump to quicken the engine start time. Same applies to any carburettor and mechanical pump set ups. I would expect a VX car to fire up quickly though due to the electric pump.

Leo

[SubGothius]

Fortunately, my carb'd 2L Zag already has the electric fuel pump mounted in back and hardwired thru igniton accessory power, so I'm already used to turning the key partway and letting the pump build a column of fuel up to the carb before cranking by now. ;) 8)

[Pope1]

If I only leave my car a few days, it starts quickly, but after a week or two there can be quite a delay. I suspect that all the fuel in the carb evaporates due to the warm weather over here.

What would help a lot would be for the pump to come on when the ignition is turned on so that the carb could be replenished before starting to crank the engine. I think I read somewhere that, as a safety precaution, the fuel pump on a carb-fed car is not activated until there is some oil pressure. Is that correct?

If so, it might be worth my while wiring up a manual bypass switch to activate the pump for those occasions when the car has been left for some time. I suppose I could take the carb top housing off instead and pour some fuel in but that is just a bit of a pain as far as I am concerned. Thoughts anyone?

[A1.6HPE]

Hello Chris,
Yes - easy enough to wire up a manual override switch. I used to hate that long cranking period and felt that I was probably causing more engine wear than lots of normal driving miles.

The petrol evaporates quickly even in cold Scotland!

Leo

[Pope1]

Yes very good point about the cranking. It sometimes seems to take forever and has even been known to make my battery give up if it's not in fine fettle. I'll rig something up as soon as my car comes back from it's penultimate date with my bodywork expert. Thanks for prompting me to do something about it Leo.

[Will]

You know, you might also consider trying something else here:
I don't know how well this would work in practice, but if your switch disconnected the starter rather than connecting the fuel pump, you could simply turn off the starter and move the key to the crank position for a few seconds. This should also open the 5th injector, and the switch could serve dual purpose as an anti-theft device.

Just an idea.
-Will

[Pope1]

Interesting idea Will but unfortunately I don't think it would work with the carb cars. I think you need to have oil pressure on a carb car before the fuel pump will start up but please correct me If I've got that wrong.

[SubGothius]

My car has the fuel pump wired to run whenever the ignition's on; I usually turn the key (without cranking) and leave it on while I buckle up and settle into the seat, which is about long enough to build a column of fuel to the carb (since the anti-drainback valve in the fuel line, as typical, doesn't work very well) -- I can usually tell it's ready to go when the sound of the fuel pump shifts from a higher-pitched whirr to a low gurgle -- then I can usually fire it up without any problem.

I don't think the starter-cutout switch idea is practical, at least not without serious mods to the ignition lock, as the ignition switch is rigged to make it impossible to crank a running engine -- after you turn the key to the cranking position once, you have to turn the key back to the off position (thus cutting the engine if it's running) before it will let you turn it to the crank position again (bit of a pain when making repeated starting attempts!).

'Twould be easier to just rig the fuel pump power (or ground?) thru a switch, with obvious anti-theft advantages as well -- you could either hide the pump switch, or rig it thru a spare, stock switch on the dash (same as I have my radio wired, so I can turn the radio on/off sans key and without removing nor fiddling behind the anti-theft trim plate hiding the radio ;) ).

[Will]

Chris;
In the "crank" position, the fuel pump should have power without oil pressure. Lancia handled this in some IMO stupid ways, like installing two electronic relays in the scorp/monte. Not sure what the carbed betas use as my only Beta was FI. The "correct" way to handle this in my book is to use the Holley oil pressure safety switch, a 3-terminal switch that powers the pump when cranking or when there is oil pressure, and does away with the relays.

SubG;
If you wire a switch so that it supplies power to the pump when the car is not running, I'm at a loss as to how that prevents theft? My concern is that if left on (a very likely scenario) it prevents the pump from getting shut off in the vent of a crash (engine stopped) or loss of oil pressure.

What I have done on my car:
I have a pushbutton starter in the engine compartment, and also a switch that kills both the fuel pump and the ignition lead to the coil. My fuel pump is loud (holley blue) so I can tell when it is running. The next time I rewire, I'll be adding the Holley switch mentioned above (provided I can find the box I stashed it in!)

-Will

[Wallace]

On the first engine I built, I had all sorts of weird arrangements with diodes and relays which cut the ignition if no oil pressure or too high boost (bypassed when starting). They didn't last long - the engine cutting if going round a corner so hard that the oil pressure light came on - and so killing the engine - was NOT a good idea.

The engine cutting in and out occasionally on full boost acceleration was even worse - it didn't do the drivechain one ounce of good and the noise of the petrol backfiring in the exhaust tended to get you noticed . . .

If you're really, really sad you can buy a gadget in the UK that squirts petrol into the exhaust so your car spits out flame . .. . "just like a race car".

Yeh well, mine did it for real.

[Will]

Wallace;
I saw a guy that put in an ignition switchover that routed to a second coil that was attached to a spark plug in a weld bung just shy of the tailpipe; the engine would cut out for a second and blue flames would shoot out of the tailpipe. Then I saw some video of some ricer maniacs that had LP BOTTLES! connected to the exhaust that would shoot flame about 20-30 FEET OUT THE BACK OF THE CAR!!!!
Totally sociopathic, but I can think of a few instances where it might have been gratifying to flip a switch and casually FLAMBE' the asshole following....but we digress from the topic!

[Pope1]

My car is away for a few days so when it returns I'll investigate further. Seems to me that one could go either way with this; a switch to enable/disable the starter when the key is in the crank poition or a switch with a time-out facility that allows you to prime the carb if the car hasn't been used for a while. Going the latter route would probably address the safety concerns associated with leaving the switch on.

[Wallace]

Hey Will . . maybe you could combine the anti-theft device with the propane bottle
. . check out this link and watch the movie (yes it is a bit off topic . . ).

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/