15"x7 Wheels with tyres pcd 4x98 & 4x100

[FORZALANCIA]

Up for sale is a set of 5 wheels with 15x7" with new kumho tyres both 4x98 & 4x100 stud patterns

+20 offset as you can see they sit really well and are in great condition!

Wheels are alley cat made in the uk

Pics only show 4, but there are 5 and they also come with center caps not show in photos, removed due to going wider wheels

Wheels have been reconditioned and have no scratches or gutter marks!


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120832818240?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

[Andrew S]

I do like these wheels- they suit the Monte really well but your description of the pcd is nonsensical- they only have 4 holes in each wheel so which are they, 98 or 100? Can't be both!

Andrew.

[FORZALANCIA]

Well they fit my monte which has a 4x100 conversion to ford hubs with bigger brakes etc,

heres a pictures of them on both the lancia & my alfa 33 with 4x98 stud pattern, they fit both cars fine no issues.



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So i guess theres your proof :)

[Andrew S]

So i guess theres your proof :)

Proof of what, bent bolts?

98mm is not 100mm. If you fit 100pcd wheels to a 98pcd hub then each hole will be 1mm out of line. This might not be noticeable when putting the bolt through the hole but will certainly be 'felt' by the bolt upon final tightening and is very unsafe, in fact illegal. You can get pcd adjusting bolts to overcome this- if you've used them (also known as wobble bolts) when fitting them to a 98pcd then no problem but I feel you should make it clear in your advert that the wheels are 100pcd, not 98.

Andrew.

[DJ]

Well they fit my monte which has a 4x100 conversion to ford hubs with bigger brakes etc,

heres a pictures of them on both the lancia & my alfa 33 with 4x98 stud pattern, they fit both cars fine no issues.

So i guess theres your proof :)

I agree with Andrew. That seems to make no sense.

[FORZALANCIA]

Firstly they arent bolts, they are studs, second of all the wheels and nuts both have tapers to line the wheel up in the centers as well has centerbore hub ring on the wheel hub.

On wheel pcd testing machine they fit both stud patterns, need i say more.... since u havent tried or tested and dont know whats been done to the wheels urself, id refrain on raining on my thread.

They also have the 8 holes with only 4 currently drilled which cant see from the front but rear....

5229

thanks!

[Andrew S]

Firstly they arent bolts, they are studs
Ok, I didn't know that. Makes no difference whatsoever though.


...second of all the wheels and nuts both have tapers to line the wheel up in the centers
Not really sure what you mean by this...
The NUTS 'have tapers' may mean they are pcd adjusting nuts, or 'wobble nuts' as they are commonly known. If that is indeed what you're meaning then fine, no problem. PCD adjusting bolts/nuts even pass the German test so they're obviously safe. Quite a clever design in fact.
The WHEELS 'have tapers'...??? I don't understand. Can you explain or perhaps show a picture? I'm intrigued.


...as well has centerbore hub ring on the wheel hub.
A 'centrebore hub ring' is a plastic or metal adapting device that allows a wheel with a larger centrebore to fit a hub with a smaller centre flange. If your wheels have these fitted that just means your wheels are the wrong size centrebore for your hubs but they will locate correctly onto the hub with these clever devices fitted.


On wheel pcd testing machine they fit both stud patterns, need i say more....
Er, yes please, a LOT more! This is impossible. Either the machine is faulty or your wheels have oversized bolt holes, which they would NEVER have originally been supplied with.


...since u havent tried or tested and dont know whats been done to the wheels urself, id refrain on raining on my thread. thanks!

It's not my intention to rain on anyones thread Forzalancia. I enjoy being a member of this forum and I have participated in many threads, sometimes to offer advice, sometimes to learn from others. I like to think I can do both with equal enjoyment.

Trust me, I know about wheels, and a wheel cannot ever be more than one pcd when it only has one set of bolt holes! Period. End of. Not up for discussion!
Either the wheels have been altered by a fool with a drill or your pcd testing machine is junk.

But I'll say it again, they are/were very nice wheels!
Happy Christmas!

Andrew.

[Andrew S]

AHA! I see you added an extra sentence edited to your post while I was writing mine- they have 8 holes, four of which are visible only from the back! May explain some of this confusion then...
However, if they are only drilled so far then that would involve a lot of precision work to drill them through. Please post a pic- I've never come across this before!
And how would a pcd machine test holes that aren't actually holes...?

All very intriguing.

Andrew.

[FORZALANCIA]

Andrew both the wheel and the nuts have tapers so its impossible for them to fit correctly with out this...the wheels are custom items, custom drilled, just put a picture up for refercence of back to give you a better idea, will get one of the taper later, sorry these ones dont have the hub rings that the other set, got things mixed up, these are exactlt 65mm which fits perfectly onto my hub with no movement.

indeed merry xmas

Tony

[Andrew S]

I see the pic- thank you!
The holes you're measuring in the pic- are they the holes that go right through the wheels?

Andrew.

[FORZALANCIA]

Some more pics for reference and just to check its the same wheel :), yes those ones where holes that went threw, maybe in actual fact the studs on my 4x100 have been bent slightly to fit the 4x98 that would make more sense, but still duel stud patterns due to 8 holes if that makes sense.


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Also some pics with center caps if you like Ben Hur! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpoKdPNM10M


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cheers,
Tony

[HF Stinger]

Why does EVERYONE here have to be so argumentative lately.

In the very first post it says there are BOTH patterns, all these accomplished experts here and nobody has heard of wheels with two bolt patterns? LO-F'ingL

This forum used to be a lot more friendly and open minded, now as soon as someone posts something it's like a race to see who can spoil the mood or prove someone wrong... And of course you are wrong until proven right.

Bahh Humbug

Tony keep posting, I love your project.

[DJ]

Why does EVERYONE here have to be so argumentative lately.

In the very first post it says there are BOTH patterns, all these accomplished experts here and nobody has heard of wheels with two bolt patterns? LO-F'ingL

This forum used to be a lot more friendly and open minded, now as soon as someone posts something it's like a race to see who can spoil the mood or prove someone wrong... And of course you are wrong until proven right.

Bahh Humbug

Tony keep posting, I love your project.

Sorry but I think that's BS, Sean. You've said such things at other times in the past but I don't get where you're coming from with that. I don't see anything argumentative at all about what Andrew is asking. He's trying to understand and clarify information that I too find confusing.

If you read Andrew's question he's stating that the wheels clearly only have four mounting holes and that they can't possibly be both 98 and 100 PCD which is absolutely correct. These are clearly not wheels with two sets of mounting holes.

Besides, Tony has now stated that his 100 PCD studs may have been bent to fit the wheels which is exactly what Andrew has been driving at. How is this argumentative or closed-minded? There are plenty of other forums I could point you to for a much better example of that.

And in looking at that photo of the back of the wheel, I still question that the other holes are actually there for the purpose of drilling for a different pattern. Most wheels have voids between the mounting holes on the back. For one thing, they all APPEAR to have the same PCD but that could just be an artifact of the photograph. Tony, have you actually measured the non-through holes?

[FORZALANCIA]

Yes like ive said before the other ones are 100mm, the holes are ofcourse for drilling, usually they are oval or square for spacer nut head clearance.

[HF Stinger]

Either way, its very common knowledge that 4x98 and 4x100 wheels generally interchange when used with PCD variation bolts/lugs. Not just generally - you can count on it...

Maybe it's not argumentative? But it's full of setting-people-straight... Regardless, the air needs to be cleared here, it used to be alot more social

[Andrew S]

Jeez Sean, I'm glad you said "EVERYONE" was being argumentative around here now... otherwise I'd have taken it personally.

Andrew.
LO-F'ingL

[1,6 HF]

Nice to know that irony is alive and well...

[HF Stinger]

Sorry but I think that's BS, Sean. You've said such things at other times in the past but I don't get where you're coming from with that. I don't see anything argumentative at all about what Andrew is asking. He's trying to understand and clarify information that I too find confusing.

If you read Andrew's question he's stating that the wheels clearly only have four mounting holes and that they can't possibly be both 98 and 100 PCD which is absolutely correct. These are clearly not wheels with two sets of mounting holes.


Seriously DJ, you don't think Andrew's post #7 is not just a bit over the top? Im sure Andrew's curiosity was because he was truly interested in purchasing these anyway. Sorry Andrew, if you have that kind of time to tear apart someones post - for no reason than to be crotchety, Im envious of your free time.

Go ahead and take it personally if you want.

[Andrew S]

Ha ha... bless you Sean; I'm glad you wanted to make sure that you yourself were included in your "EVERYONE" statement...

Crotchety means "cross and irritable". I was/am neither. I was merely trying to understand something that I felt wasn't being clearly explained, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. I certainly didn't want to "tear apart someone's post", why on earth would I want to do that? As I had already asked for clarification and hadn't received it I thought I would spend a little more time in attempting to point out to Tony exactly what wasn't clear to me. Now, Sean, if my wanting to totally understand something has made you cross or irritated then please accept my apologies, it wasn't intentional.

Tony did explain better later on and by including some pictures I do now understand at least some of what he was meaning.

And I certainly do not wish to take your comment personally my friend, much the same as I don't want you to be envious of my free time.

Good luck with the sale Tony!

Andrew.

[HF Stinger]

Don't have to be cheeky Andrew. Don't bless me either - I personally do not see you as qualified for that.

After all of this, did you really care - or did you really just want to put someone that offered a set of wheels through the ringer... Your level of concern over the bolt spacing is not consistent with the technology involved here.

What makes me 'cross or irritated' is the fact that I personally know many members of this site that will only lurk here in fear that anything they post is going to come under heavy scrutiny and feel like they are either on trial or stupid. It's a shame, some of them are pretty colorful characters who are both knowledgeable and enthusiastic about these cars. After being down to only checking this site once or twice a month I take a visit and the first thing I see is you picking apart Tonys post because what he says isn't to your normal understanding. It reinforced why I don't come here, and everyone else is quiet. There are a handful of guys here which I truly value their knowledge - and their means of sharing it - by not belittling someone to make a point.

I have a project thread for my Scorpion restoration, it has the second highest viewing of any other post on this site. The one with the highest viewing has had no activity since 2008. I surely don't need a pat on the back, but if I were the owner of this site I would see the value in that type of 'contribution' (which I use loosely). About a year ago I migrated the project over to another website that was a bit more social and openminded, the project was well received - then I noticed I was being contacted from lancisti members who were choosing to follow along there because of the lighter mood.

DJ, I hope you accept this more as constructive criticism rather than an attack on lancisti.

[Andrew S]

Blimey, this is getting a little long winded now, don't ya think? You must have too much free time on your hands Sean; I thought my last post and also DJ's would've cleared it all up for you.

Ok, this is my last post on the subject Sean. Post what you will after this, I couldn't give a $hite.


Don't have to be cheeky Andrew.
After what you said about my previous post I think I have every right to be a little 'cheeky'...


After all of this, did you really care - or did you really just want to put someone that offered a set of wheels through the ringer....

Did I really care? Yes. If I didn't I wouldn't have bothered to post on the subject. I read the post and saw that there was an obvious error in the description. I asked for clarification from Tony. If I hadn't asked for clarification it would have meant that I'd noticed the error but didn't care about it. Which would be wrong. And I'll pose the question again with regard to your new terminology "through the ringer"- Why on earth would I want to do that?


Your level of concern over the bolt spacing is not consistent with the technology involved here.

Christ man, we're talking about one of the most crucial safety aspects of a car! What level of concern would you deem to be appropriate? To use 16 bent bolts to hold the wheels onto a sports car is fooking stupid! I was concerned for the safety of a fellow Lancisti, the future owner of the wheels and also the poor guy coming the other way around the hairpin bend as the bolts break...


What makes me 'cross or irritated' is the fact that I personally know many members of this site that will only lurk here in fear that anything they post is going to come under heavy scrutiny and feel like they are either on trial or stupid. It's a shame, some of them are pretty colorful characters who are both knowledgeable and enthusiastic about these cars.

Really? I can't imagine that's correct but as you say you know these guys personally I'll have to accept it as true. But I'll agree with you there, it's a real shame. I'd love to know why they would feel that way though- I've always found this site to be a credit to DJ and to it's members. Interesting, informative and often inspiring. I'm not at all aware of the things you refer to and I read most things on here. I myself have learnt so much from reading posts on here and also I have been thanked for sharing information that I happened to know. Which is what it's all about, after all.


After being down to only checking this site once or twice a month I take a visit and the first thing I see is you picking apart Tonys post because what he says isn't to your normal understanding.

My "normal understanding" isn't the issue here, Sean. With no disrespect to Tony; what he said wasn't to anyone's understanding. He was describing wheels with a dual pcd fitment. He was showing pictures of wheels with only one set of bolt holes which were clearly not dual pcd fitment. He did post more information as the thread went on and he did clarify at least some of it. I wasn't "picking apart" anyone's post- I was asking for clarification and for reasons known only to yourself you seem to have had a problem with that.


It reinforced why I don't come here, and everyone else is quiet.

I've been a member here long enough to know that it goes quiet every winter, particularly around Christmas time, as indeed you yourself have pointed out in your posts on this site. The very nature of our cars (yours and mine included!) is that the great majority of them are on-going-projects, or 'summer cars'. There simply isn't the same level of activity to post about at this time of year, that's all. If you go to the Betaboyz site you'll see that's deathly quiet too... or are they all argumentative and scaring people off...?


There are a handful of guys here which I truly value their knowledge - and their means of sharing it

Well, there's waaaay more than a handful of guys here whose input I value. (And valueD: Will Holding where are you mate?) We're all here to help, encourage, learn and advise where we can. Which is what makes this site great because that's what we do here, or so I thought until I read your earlier post.


I have a project thread for my Scorpion restoration, it has the second highest viewing of any other post on this site.

I am well aware of your Scorpion restoration thread Sean. I am one of it's avid viewers. You are to be commended for it. Good, well written, interesting and informative posts with excellent pictures, I for one have thoroughly enjoyed reading it to date. I notice you haven't added to it for a few months now, as also happened the previous winters, but I look forward to your next instalment.


...if I were the owner of this site I would see the value in that type of 'contribution' .

Well, obviously I can't speak for DJ but from what I've learnt about the man from his presence on this site, his posts and his occasional pm I have no doubt whatsoever that he will indeed value it very highly. In fact I would go so far as to say he will see it as the kind of thread that he started the site for in the first place.

Right, Sean, as I said earlier this is my last post on the thread- I'm finished with it. I don't like to think of my offending anyone in life; be it online or in person. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm straightforward, honest and I say it as I see it. Perhaps with occasional irony, dry humour or dare I say it even a touch of sarcasm, but nothing more. I can't imagine why it might have but if my asking Tony for clarification of his post offended you in any way I apologise.

But I stand by what I said- Tony's wheels are not dual pcd.

Andrew.

[HF Stinger]

Not that Im about to read all that, but we'll see if you hold up to your word and be done with the madness...

[77_scorp]

I think the funny thing about this forum is that everyone pretty much already knows the answers to their questions. Anyone who owns a Scorpion or Monte knows the bolt pattern, oil types, wheels that fit, brakes, upgrades, and suspension etc. For such a very elementary vehicle in all of it's simplistic nature, I would be scared to see these discussions if these cars were mechanically complex! Anyone who owns these cars has to understand them or they wouldn't be their hobby / collector car! Now if you want to argue about the small things, that could be a hobby in itself on this forum! I've seen many small time bickerings here that amuse me quite well and free of charge no doubt! Forums are the place to do it though if you think about it. I too have been slammed for my input here and I chalk it up to the fact that I know none of you personally, I'm a younger owner / enthusiast. These cars are there to be driven som enjoy the old world Italian sports cars while we still have them and peace be upon you!


Oh yeah and I like those wheels, wobble bolts or not. 4x98 is the most inconvenient bolt pattern on earth.
complex!

[FORZALANCIA]

To clear up all the BS, the wheels are 4x98, but can also be drilled to suit 4x100 as they have the 8 bolt holes with 4 pre-drilled, since most owners on this forum require 4x98 you have nothing to worry about, only post if your interested in the wheels.