motor shock

[jp]

does anyone know of a source for the small motor shock for a Zagato?
mine is completely shot.Thanks
JP :roll:

[Jim Keller]

Hoefully someone here has a good NOS or used one, but you might call C. Obert & Co. Expect to pay around $75 and up when you find one new. Check your other motor mounts while your here, they are probably in dire need of replacement. If they are, they will put more stress on your new dog bone mount and wear/ruin it prematurely.
Not to worry you but just to prepare you, motor mounts are very hard to find and one of the most expensive parts to obtain if you can find them so be prepared to take a while to find them if it turns out that way.
You may end up just pulling yours, taking it to a machine shop and having new bushings installed. I know some folks have done that.
I think the shorter carb dog bone is easier to find than the longer fuel injected style but I'm not positive on that

[Gregory Smith]

If just the little motor shock bushings are worn out, you may find replacement bushings at a local parts store. I found a set of generic alternator bushings that fit well.

[SubGothius]

Actually, the longer FI dogbones (upper torque rod mount) are easier to find and still in stock at the usual suspects (Vick (http://vickauto.com/), IAP (http://international-auto.com/), Obert (http://fiatplus.com/)); the shorter carb-model dogbones are NLA. Last time I'd inquired of him, Chris Obert suggested shortening a FIAT dogbone (for a 128 or X1/9, I think it was?). Apple Motors (http://applemotors.com/urethane.htm) implies on their site that they may refurbish dogbones with poured-in polyurethane, or you may find someone local who can do it. IIRC, the Beta Boyz (http://betaboyz.co.uk/) may be considering a polyurethane rebush kit for the dogbones soon; ESMAT (http://esmat.net/CLASSICBUSHES/UK/indexCB_UK.htm) in the Netherlands seems to offer an "engine silentblock bush upper" kit for Betas (thinking this means the dogbone bushes?), as well as polybushes for earlier Lancia models, FWIW.

Beta Boyz are also putting the finishing touches on an improved, polyurethane-cushioned rear-lower transaxle mount (as those OEM/NOS units are long since NLA), to be "available soon".

Rear-lower engine mounts are still commonly available, last I'd checked, from Vick, IAP, etc. No word about the NLA front-lower mounts, but I'm suspecting those don't get much abuse (no exhaust heat nor oil contamination breaking them down, at least), and perhaps could be easily recushioned from polyurethane rod stock if necessary?

[Jim Keller]

Wow!
Vick's and IAP must have found some for the 2.0L FI cars in the last two years then as they did not have any and were unable to get the upper dog bone for our 82 Zagato back then, or any other one of the motor mounts for that matters. I was told I bought C. Obert's last one at the time but he has many good resorces so him having one doesn't surprise me, but the possibility of Vick's and IAP having them again does. IAP is very good about listing items in their catalog but not having nor being able to aquire them when you go to order.

[jp]

it turns out that the small engine shock is all right, but the front lower is shot to hell. I added water wetter to the new fresh coolant, has anyone used it and noticed a difference?
JP

[Jim Keller]

My local body shop buddy uses it in his Lotus 7 replicar thats powered by an RX7 rotory, it brought the temps down quite a bit so he stuck it in the Factory Five Daytona Cobra Coupe replicar we built two years ago before he even started it. From everything I have heard and read, the stuff is awesome.

[Tony K]

The Lotus people with whom I used to associate all swear by it. I put some in my Esprit and I think the difference was more in my head than on the temperature gauge; but many people claim noticeable temperature drops. I guess there are other factors that affect its effect. :?:

[PeterCoupe]

All

Regarding upper dogbone, I fitted poly bushed made for Lancia and it's not good at all.
First one of the bush holders cracked and then the other, beyond welding possibility. Next thing that would deffinetlt carck would be weld at the fron of the car that hold dogbone, 100% sure it would.

Poly are too string for that application, instead I went to wrecking yard found same bushing size dogbone from some other car a bit longer, shortened and welded, now it's OK.

I would stay away from poly bush in that application, for everything else around the car is poly OK.

[Jim Keller]

Thats good to know, I never thought about cracking the steel part and not having the rubber flex will certinly do that!. I have seen them broken, but only on Zagatos that have taken a hard hit on the front, not from fatique

[SubGothius]

Re: failure of a rebushed dogbone, I think that'd be mostly a matter of having used the wrong "shore" grade of polyurethane (and/or prior damage/weakness in the dogbone metal itself), which can be made anywhere from chewtoy-soft to nylon-hard (e.g., Betz Boyz' suspension polybushes come in two grades, one 10% stiffer than rubber for street, the other nylon-hard for racing). IIRC, Allen Lofland tried pouring his own poly into old dogbones, following an online MR2-owners' mount-refurbishing tutorial as a general guide, but the poly shore grade he chose wound up being a bit too soft (?), so the motor was rocking around a bit too much, (mebbe split the poly apart as well?). Getting that shore grade just right has also been the final fine point for the Beta Boyz to start offering their rear-lower transaxle mount, FWIW...

[A1.6HPE]

Hello guys,
This sounds like an interesting topic but I am struggling with the jargon. Could someone please describe the dogbone? At first I thought that is what I would call the wishbone - Y shaped thing that the front hub swivels on, and is hinged at the subframe side. Then I thought that it may be the steady bar that runs from the bonnet/hood hinge panel to the end of cylinder head.
As for the "motor shock", I guess that is the "engine mounting"?

Lost (in Scotland)
:?: :?:

[Pope1]

Hi Leo,

Dogbone = engine stabiliser bar as per your second assumption.
Motor shock - I assume that this is the little vibration damper at the cambelt end of the engine.

Hope that helps (and hope my assumption is correct) :lol: .

[DJ]

See the following eBay link for a "dogbone" currently up for auction by Vick's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=7970019529&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[SubGothius]

In the parlance as used in this thread, I think the original poster meant "motor shock" = motor mount. Then again, upon review, maybe not...? :?

However, speaking of the long-NLA, mini-shock-absorber-type dampers attached to the cambelt end of the engine and outer (port-side) end of the gearbox, just thought I'd mention here what someone on the lanciabeta Yahoo!Group (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lanciabeta/) once attested to -- viz., that the engine shock-absorbers/dampers from a Renault 21 turbodiesel are ever-so-slightly shorter but will fit and do the job (now, if only we could get a batch of those over here to the States somehow...!). Also, has anyone tried rebuilding these dampers? Are they even rebuildable? FWIW, I've gathered that it's functionally OK to leave these dampers as-is if they're shot, just so long as ye don't mind tolerating the extra engine vibration (which by now you're prolly used to already anywho).

P.S. Good to see you back on the board, Chris! :D Was just thinking the other day, with all this talk of Popes in the news lately, that you'd seemed absent lately... :lol:

[Pope1]

Thanks Tye. Yes, I've been very busy for the past few months. Just got back to Barbados after 6 weeks in the UK so I've actually been able to enjoy my VX again this week. :D Will try to do a better job of keeping up with the forum in the coming weeks.

[A1.6HPE]

Hello guys,
Thanks for the explanations on the jargon. I should have thought of checking Ebay - its the centre of the modern world.

Leo

[jp]

Chris from Obert just emailed me to say they have a front lower mount
$175.00

Got a Pioneer cd deck in with a little help from a heat gun- I will post a pic when it is all done and speakers are in

JP

[Allen Lofland]

My experimental dog bone bushing repair with the liquid poly from McMaster's per the mr11 page Has indeed worked out very well. I was at Apple motors last summer and he is doing basically the same thing.
I see no need to pay big bucks for a replacement bar when all you need is a can of the liquid poly and a box with some sand in it to hold the object while you pour in the poly.
I did have the first set come loose from the metal, seems that the poly doese not want to stick to the steel, I would suggest that if you are trying this that you carefully remove the old rubber and KEEP the plastic liner that is against the steel and pour you liquid against the plastic liner.....
The only problem I have found with this is IF the poly comes loose it will allow the dogboce to lip back and forth and that is easily fixed with washers :)
Works for me. As for any of the vendors having this for the Zagato,,,,,NOT, I contacted them all. If they find some, they are supposed to forward one to me ???:(

[jp]

well, it turns out the mount Obert has is the rear, not the front lower, so I will keep looking

I am really happy with the new Falkens

JP

[SubGothius]

Yeh, I think I saw Obert had eBayed off the last front-lower mount he had -- prolly the last NOS one in stock anywhere, at least in the States -- a couple-few months ago.

You might be able to rebuild your old one. I think the top plate that bolts onto the front frame rail may separate from the cup portion that fits into the rail somehow, so you could remove the mount, dig out the decayed rubber bushing from inside the cup, replace with a fresh polyurethane donut or drilled cylinder, reassemble and presto, new mount!

[jp]

Thanks Tye,
I will give it a shot

JP