Drove a Beta for the first time, have questions... (long!)

[Tony K]

Hi all,

I have always heard nothing but good things about how a Beta Coupe drives, and I always liked the looks of them, and one came up for sale not too far from me and I am interested in buying it.

It is a red 77 with a stock 1.8. I just went for a quick look/drive last night to see if I would like it; I'm thinking about going back for a more in-depth look later. This is the first Beta Coupe I have seen in person in many years, and the first time I ever paid close attention to one in person. It drives nicely, but if I buy it, it would need a lot of details to tidy it up, and I would want to use it like a regular car in the warm months, so little things like door locks would have to work, and it would have to be presentable and comfortable to non-"car people". So here are a couple of questions:

1) Seat belts - Again, this is the first time I ever drove one - The anchor point and reel seem very odd to me - the belt came out of a low-positioned retractor below the rear quarter window and I actually had to bring it up from behind over my shoulder from there; there was no kind of shoulder-height guide fixed to the pillar like all other cars with shoulder belts I have driven (even from the early 70s) have. Are all Beta Coupes like that, or was something missing from this car, or are later ones different? I felt very concerned about what would happen in an accident with the direction that the belt would be pulling - essentially down behind my shoulder. I didn't feel like I could get the belt to lay over me properly. Can anyone tell me more about seat belts on Betas, if this 77 Coupe I drove is normal, etc.? Anyone have photos?


2) Keys/locks. I don't think this guy has a key for the door locks. I would obviously need to lock the car when I go places. How would I go about resolving this, and how much hassle and money would it realistically take in the end?


3) Carpet - the carpet is filthy in this car and I don't know if it would clean up. What is the best source (preferably in the States) that anyone knows of for QUALITY carpet (not those guys in Missouri...), preferably in the original style of weave, and about what should I expect to pay?


4) Dashboard - dash is cracked in a few places. Are replacements available? What can be done to fix it? I've heard very bad things about "Just Dashes" from the Porsche community. Is there a source for NOS or reproduction or refurbished Beta dashboards (anywhere in the world?) . As a least-desirable option (but if I have no other choice), does anyone sell a thin plastic molded cap for these dashboards?


5) Steering wheel - how easily can I fit a normal MOMO wheel to it - are hub adaptors available? The present owner actually cut away the original steering wheel and drilled holes in what was left of it at the core to mount a tiny odd-shaped MOMO-like wheel, and I am uneasy about this method for safety reasons, in addition to the fact that it is ugly. Or are old original steering wheels in good condition easy enough to come by?


6) Chassis parts - this car has about 100k miles on it. It drives very nicely and the struts are still good. However, as things wear and need replacing, how obtainable are suspension and chassis parts for this car? What about hoses, belts, etc.?


7) Is the parking brake cable available? What are my chances of finding the rest of the parts for the parking brake mechanism (new or secondhand)?


8 ) The doors seemed to dip/sag just a tiny bit. Barely, just enough to notice. Normal? Are bushings available?


9) This car had the air conditioning removed from it. What are my chances of finding the components to make it work again?


10) Ancillaries - This car has a full-size spare. It is most likely missing the tool kit, jack, owner's manual, and spare tire cover. What other "finishing touches" like this are often missing from old Betas? (For example, Porsche 944s often don't have their battery cover, Scorpions don't often have the tray below the engine, etc.) What kinds of things like this get lost over the years on a Beta Coupe - what should I be looking for to be present/missing on this Beta?


11) In general, do Beta coupes have issues with water leaks in the body? (Seals, doors, water getting in the trunk/boot). (This car does not have a sunroof..) How about wind leaks - on the freeway, will a proper Beta Coupe have a tight seal, or will I hear wind leaks by the doors?


Okay, these may seem like goofy questions, but I want one as a real car, not a toy to polish and show to people and never seriously use. In other words, is a proper Beta Coupe as civilized as some of the cars you would find on the road today? i.e., will my not-interested-in-old-cars passengers feel like they are in a real car?

A lot of "restored" cars that people take to shows look very nice, but have a lot of things missing or not working, like heat, parking brake, lights, ventilation or AC, locks, etc. Can I expect to operate a Beta Coupe with these kinds of things in order?

Finally, can anyone provide some good detailed photos to give me a good idea of how a Beta "should be"? I have an issue of T&CC magazine with a Beta buyer's guide, but it is not very thorough. Can anyone with an excellent Beta provide phtotos from throughout the car that I can use as a reference for how everything throughout the car should look, particularly areas that are most likely to have been compromised over the years? I would appreciate it very much! (either email me tony.krncevic@aw.com or post in a photo album)

I really enjoyed driving the car. It indeed felt very light, nimble, and direct. I realized instantly why I have heard so many people praise the Beta as a driver's car! So I am seriously thinking about getting one; I just have a few concerns...


If you read this far,

Thanks,

Tony

tony.krncevic@aw.com
419-464-6309

[mogul_x]

2) Keys/locks. I don't think this guy has a key for the door locks. I would obviously need to lock the car when I go places. How would I go about resolving this, and how much hassle and money would it realistically take in the end?

As it happens, I have a complete, matching NOS lock set for a Beta Coupe. Doors, glovebox, fuel door - all of it. I bought it for the glovebox lock (to use on the Stratos replica as the trunk lock), but it seemed a shame to split a complete set, so I didn't use it. If you want it, I'll let you have it at my cost (around $140, if I remember correctly).

Otherwise, there's a guy in Australia who sells Beta key blanks on E-bay from time to time. I think they're $30 apiece, and he can cut the keys from the lock code (which you can find on the lock cylinders). His E-mail address is: sales@keys4classics.com



is a proper Beta Coupe as civilized as some of the cars you would find on the road today? i.e., will my not-interested-in-old-cars passengers feel like they are in a real car?

I've only driven in one - Jim Keller's '82 Zagato. It was remarkably contemporary in terms of ride, handling, and overall comfort. Reminded me a little of a late '80's BMW I rode in back when it was new.

Scott

[sickchilly]

It took me a while to come around to the Beta way of life, but once one fell in my lap and I learned some tricks to working on it, I grew to love it.

1. This is the way the belts are on all models. A little weird. The only thing that bugs me is the lower belt recepticle on the "stalk" sometimes digs into my hip.

2. http://keys4classics.com/html/Lancia_1.html - the door locks are pricey and not every typical locksmith can cut them. Best to order them from that web site. You'll need to find out the lock code.

3. Lancia used very high quality wool loop carpeting. Often times it will clean up very well. Just take the whole thing out of the car, hang it up somewhere, soap it and pressure wash it.

4. You can find caps occassionally from the usual vendors that don't look too bad if installed properly. Otherwise, start looking for a good used one.

5. There was a thread here a while back. I believe either Omicron or Monte Hospital in the UK has the proper adapter/hub?

6. It took me a while to research struts for these things. They are available, but a little pricey depending upon what you find. Search my posts for lots of info. One bonus about this being an early Beta is that you can rebuild the strut inserts with some skill, motorcycle fork oil and seals. Nearly all of the bushings are available from the Beta Boyz. (Join that MSN Group).

7. I'm sure it is. If not, I'm sure a suitable replacement can be found. Cables are generally easy items to substitute. I'd bet IAP or Chris Obert can get them in the US.

8. No idea, my car's practically new still.

9. Pretty good. I can put you in touch with someone for original bits. It would be better to adapt some later model or aftermarket bits though as the original system used that ineffecient piston type compressor.

10. Toolkits are basically the same as FIATs only in a plastic "Lancia" case. You're better off assembling your own roll if you're really going to attempt roadside repairs. The factory toolkit is nothing to be proud of. If you want to know what it looks like, check out my web site. Did it have the matching vinyl spare tire cover? That's about it for the trunk besides jack.

11. If it doesn't have a sunroof, you shouldn't have to worry about water leaks. Mine's pretty quiet and civilized on the highway. Most of the noise is actually motor noise.

They are great "real cars". I drive mine every day to/from work (about 35 miles a day), get groceries, road trips, shuttle daughter around, etc. Perfectly civilized. And the interior gets stares everywhere (check my web site to see what I mean... lol).

It's also funny when people come up to check it out and see what it is, then you hear them whisper "what the heck is a Lan-see-ah Bee?" Hehe.

[Jim Keller]

Looks like your questions were answered pretty good. Only comments I have are sometimes a part or two, especially trim items not available new, may take a while to track down and can get expensive if you need them right now. There are no real "Lancia" vendors in the US, just Fiat vendors that happen to have some Lancia "mechanical" parts and those parts are getting very very hard to get. Brake pads are available but rotors are getting hard to sorce. Tune up stuff is still readily available as it's the same as Fiat. Electrical switches, (like ignition switch and "headlight/turn signal/wiper stalk switch), are amost impossible to find, typically expensive when you do and a common problem on the Betas. Most of the trim stuff I ever had to replace had to be sorced from private individuals, (or in some cases, I have purchased whole cars just for one trim piece, switched out the piece and sold off the car), with exception to buying Bruce's Parts Bin's last NOS dash several years ago. He and others still have the hard glue on dash covers. Those look pretty good once installed properly but are hard plastic and not the soft vinyl of the original
I would suggest you go clear through the car "BEFORE" you put it into daily service or you will get frustrated with things breaking or not working all the time. Even after snuffing everything up to "as new" or better on our 82 Zagato, it still required about $500 plus a year just to keep going plus what ever we spent on continued improvements and of corse, once you own one you have the expense of all the get togethers around the US you simply can not miss! ha ha ha
I have owned many many Zagatos, 2 Scorpions and several Beta Coupes since I discovered them by total accident in January 1998. I really like them a lot and that comes from a hard core Ford Mustang muscle car freak that wouldn't give ya ten cents for any 4 banger foreign car prior to owning our 82 Zagato. My only problem I ever had with the comfort was on the 78 and older models, the seats, and seat belts in them suck and at 6' 2" tall, I can not fit, I have to slouch real bad and tilt my head down even to just ride in the passenger side, something I am no longer able to do since they installed all these rods, screws and other peoples bones in my upper and lower spine over the last three years! I now will only look for 81 or 82 Zagato's and Coupes and Scorpions now unless I am buying it for a parts car or to fix and resell.
One other thing to keep in mind, a carbed 1.8L is weak on power, has basically no torque requiring you to run at higher revs to get anywhere with them and shift a lot, all my 2.0L FI Betas you could stick in fourth gear at 25MPH and they didn't seem to care and would accel up to any speed decent without having to down shift. Also, the carbed Betas only get about 20 to 24 MPG on fuel, I have never had a proper running FI 2.0L beta that got less than 29MPG and our good 82 Zagato regularly pulled downed figures from 31 to 34 MPG
When you are looking it over, pull the trunk carpet and check the strut towers, especially around the seams for rust. Check the cross member under the radiator for rust through, mainly driver side, this is where the whole front subframe is bolted on and common problem area. Check the bottoms of the doors, rear floor pans and cross member by pulling up the rear seat bottom and pulling back the carpet and running your hand up under the carpet towards the front seats, they rust bad along the floor at the rear cross member if it has any window leaks. Check the front floor pans along the rocker edges, front edges and shifter tunnel. inspect the front and rear window edges, especially the bottom of the front windshield piller for rust. Inspect the rear swing out windows for operation and rust problems. Make sure all electricals work good or you could be in for a hell of a nightmare. Check every dang motor mount, (especially the dog bone and firewall at trans mount), as those can not be found very easily and are probably one of the most expensive parts to buy If and only IF you can find them. suspension parts are easy to come buy normally so no biggie there however, struts will run about $130 to $150 each if you need those. There is more, but thats about all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment!

Good Luck!

[cthargiss]

Hi Tony--
I drove a Beta Coupe daily for 27 years and 300Kmiles, so here goes:
All of the responses from others are good.

1) The shoulder belt position is correct, and actually in the same position reccomended for race cars. You will get used to it, and is actually safer than the high mounted ones.

2) Get the NOS set offered above.

3) The carpet WILL clean up, and if the heel pad is worn out, it can be relaced by any good auto interior shop.

4) Bruce's Parts Bin

5) Nardi USA has a hub by Jet that accepts both Nardi and Momo wheels. I have a spare Personal hub and extender for Nardi. I may have a spare used stock wheel around somewhere.

6) Suspension and chassis parts still availabe from the usual suspects, plus, things like ball joints and tierod ends available through NAPA and the like. Belts ,hoses, filters ets. also available.

7) IAP, Bayless, Oberg, etc. still have most brake parts, including the cable and hoses. Major brake supply houses like Olympic have or can get rebuilt calipers and pads. I have had excelent service from Autospeciality Super-Lux pads #D-2021SD front, #D-2022SD rear.

8) The doors are full adjustable by loosening the hinge screws and moving the hinge up,down,in, out etc.

9) The A/C compressor is the same as Scorpion, Fiat and is readily available. all the other parts with the exception of the condenser and its fan can be had from the usual suspects. If you need the condenser and fan, try Bayless.

10) The spare tire cover, if missing is nearly impossible to find, but a parts store cover in brown makes a good substitute. The jack is a standard Fiat/Lancia item. Tool kit same as Fiat.

11) Beta Coupes seal pretty well. If the door and window seals are in good condition, you should have no wind leaks, but notice a little wind noise from the drip gutters. The only suspect water leak spot is the windshield seal. Rust areas to look for: 'A'-pillars, roof leading edge, wheel arches, rocker panels, door bottoms, strut towers.


A properly sorted and maintained Beta Coupe makes an excellent and reliable daily driver. The Headlight switch can be burned out by high wattage lights, but can be rebuilt. Oberg might have one NOS. The Beta may be the best nasty weather car I have ever driven, and goes anywhere in snow with studded tires.

Craig

[chrisc]

Pity youre not in the uk, I have a complete carpet in good condition including the stuff like spare wheel cover you could have for about nothing. Likewise the dash.

AC parts will be hard to find - youll be better off getting a new system working off the original controls bearing in mind how refrigerant laws have changed etc.

The doors sagging worries me. Ive never encountered a beta where the doors sagged. Im wondering if theres some shoddy repairs to the a or b pillars or perhaps some accident damage. Or i could have just been lucky in not ever seeing one where the doors sagged. As stated, easy to adjust if the metalwork is good.

[sickchilly]

The spare tire covers are really impossible to find? Good to know since I happen to have one! (Brown, one minor rip... can be fixed.) :wink:

[Tony K]

Hey Everyone -

Thanks for the great replies!

Scott - if I buy this car, I'd like to take you up on the offer.

Trent - if I get this car (it has the brown/tan interior), wanna sell that tire cover? (By the way, I'm the same Tony that your old cassette player is en route to.. :) )

Jim - If you have a spare weekend in the near future, I'd love to see your cars! - I'm not too far away in Toledo.

Chris C - Again, if I buy the car, would you be willing to sell and ship overseas? I'd do what I can to minimize the effort on your part.

Andrew (Omicron) - I read your reply on the yahoogroup - Keep me posted on the engine mounts. This car has 100k miles, so I will assume it will need them. . .

Craig - Thank you especially for the confidence on the seat belt - that is really my biggest concern with this (or another) Beta - I can relate to Jim, in what he said about seats and seat belts, as I am a tad over 6'2"!


All of your answers are very encouraging to me. A few more details on the car:

- It doesn't look rusty at all. The present owner has had it for about a year and drives it daily. He says that he drove it this winter, but that he is the first person to drive it in snow/salt. The car looks the part; as dirty as it is in the engine compartment, there is no rust or salt in the areas I would expect to get the most spray. No visible rust on the body anywhere. I didn't get to examine the underbody or remove the trunk/boot lining, but I will be going for a second look.

- The red paint is without major marks or rust bubbles, but it is repainted (a slightly different shade of red than the original) and glancing at it from an angle reveals a lot of shadows and textures, so I have to examine it more closely for past repair.

- The panel gaps are all straight, and the inside of the fenders/engine compartment looks all straight. I'm not suspecting any serious accident repair, but again, have to look closer.

- Really it drives nicely except it is hard to shift (bushings? ...and I believe Bruce has these?) But it makes very few squeaks/rattles over bumps, the steering feels good and the brakes feel good.

- As for the sagging doors - it is just ever so slight; I just barely feel something touch as I am pulling it closed. I more suspect 28 years/100k miles to be the culprit than rust or accident. But again, I have to go back and take a closer look.

The car is filthy and a little shabby in the details (example: engine compartment rubber weather seal is missing, lid latches are painted over; trunk carpet is all wavy, dirty interior, cracked dash with residue from tape that was once put over it, windows a little hard to wind up... that kind of stuff). There is dirt in every crevice of that car and it looks like it has been there for years. I am thinking it will be more of a cleaning job than anything else, but an extensive one at that.

Getting back to the struts - they are still good; My question was more in anticipation of the future - I know what a toil it has been for Scorpion/Montecarlo struts - was wondering if Betas were the same. I am unsure about how ball joints, tie rods, bushings are on the car...

What appeals to me about this car is that if I buy it I can DRIVE IT HOME. The lights and turn signals work, the brakes are good, it runs okay, has a good exhaust system, the heat works, nothing is held on with coat hangers or tape, nothing important missing (like mirrors, etc.), decent tires, nothing about the car would make it a menace or hazard on the road. I could buy it and drive it; it's just dirty and a bit shabby in the things that are not necessary for getting from point A to point B.

I'm gonna take a closer look at it as soon as I get the chance . . .


Additional replies to my initial post still welcome! Also, any detail "how it's supposed to be" photos of areas that commonly are awry on older Betas would be appreciated, as I have no good example to compare it to. (...or Jim, how's your 76?)


Many thanks,

Tony

[badboyboogzy]

m8 im in aussie for years just drove my holden commadores or fords never really cared for cars then i got a beta ive spent way to much on it and will spend much more but now im in love they have a habit once you have a beta you become part of an elite group of people classic car owners we the beta cultre we of the lancia we who send parts to everyone if one doesnt have another is bound to if you need stuff for your car try the noemal places first like fiat lancia dealers and mechacnics then come to the real heart and soul of beta parts and accesories betabiyz launcesti and the other sites mentioned in the links page if you cant get it in here you cant get it its interesting to know about that bron spare whell cover i have one thats like brand new not a blemish on it i always hated it now im tinking twice BUY THE BETA BECOME ONE OF US THE RITUALS ON THE FIRST SUNDAY OF EVERY MONTH PLEASE BRING YOUR OWN CHICKEN

i hope you do get it m8 they are a gret car with classic lines and unlimited potential depending on what you do whether it be onaturale or blinged out or just daily driver with a sleeper inside this is the ultimate car sdince i got mine my life changed and thats no joke it changed i started to care more for things and life i started to appreciate things and enjoy simple pleasures like a long drive down a coast line or blowing away a boy racer who has a brand new car wwith 50grands worth of mods just because it was a beta


Lancia Beta Coupe even th name sounds sexy

Lancia Beta Coupe With Delta Intergrale Engine and four whell drive system hmmm

bbb

[Tony K]

BUY THE BETA BECOME ONE OF US THE RITUALS ON THE FIRST SUNDAY OF EVERY MONTH PLEASE BRING YOUR OWN CHICKEN

bbb

http://www.holy-secrets.com/chicken_sacrifice.gif


http://touregypt.net/featurestories/zar5.jpg




Seriously, though, if the car is good and I can secure a place to keep it, I think I will go for it... 8)

[Jim Keller]

Hi Tony,
Too-Lee-Doo?!!! :D (got that from an Indian guy that asked for directions from me at a gas station in Columbus one night, took me about 5 min of talking to him to realize he wanted to go to Toledo! ha ha), yup! your about an hour and a half away! But you'll have to settle for pictures, newspaper and mag articals on the walls, (and a beer or cup of coffee), to see our cars, unfortunatly, my spine took a crap three and a half years ago and I lost my job due to same, (have had 4 spine and one other major surgey in the last 3 years), we have had to sell off the cars to keep the house :cry: . Things are looking good though, :lol: hope to be back in da car buiss 8) by late spring or early summer if all works out ok. Maybe even sooner! :lol:

[A1.6HPE]

Hello Tony,
The HPE seat belts are fed through a hanger that is just above the rear window just behind the b pillar. The hanger is supported by a tall bracket that bolts on inside the panel (behind the trim). I don't know if these brackets could be fitted to a coupe but I think it would be the solution you are seeking. I'll go and take some photos and post them in my album (Lancias and Leo Capaldi). May take me an hour to do it though.

Leo 19:30 (Scotland)
Coupes are nice but HPEs are better!!!

[Tony K]

Leo - Thanks for posting the pics. That bracket arrangement makes a lot more sense than how the coupe has it. Whether I purchase the car referenced in this thread or another, this looks like a good solution, provided I can mount the bracket with the proper strength and position (...and make it appear factory!)..

I very much appreciate your posting the pics!

[badboyboogzy]

after a wjile you do get used to the coupe seatbelts although the hpe ones are ok in an ahpe that bit of metal sicking up behind the 1/4 window in a coupe would be damned ugly you see othere betas are for people who want to experience betas but cant find a coupe there was a debait a few threads ago about coupe or hpe or whatever and i thinkconclusivly coupe came out ontop the lines the class the buety the fact that my m8 has a fully convertable one which makes it even more stunning being as its still a coupe but woth no roof and no spider rear piller either its compleatly convertable like that mythical one that exists factory made the prototype or something one off made from factory but obviously his not factory but nice all the same the seatbelts doo cut in a bit at first i resolved this by using those padded protecter things you get in packs with the car seat covers and then when i was used to it it was fine now i prefer it to most modern cars does the car have the original seatbelt holders which when you take the belt loop it snaps into place by the handbrake its not like a plug typ at all i forget what they are called by the coupe and love it better yet buy the coupe i have here in oz and love it more ITS RED with a brand new soft hide two tone lether interior

bbb

[Shant Fabricatorian]

Just quickly on whether it’s a good daily driver, absolutely. Just remember that because it was very advanced for its time, the specification stands up to comparison with modern cars – five speed ‘box, twin-cam motor with what is a very advanced spec even today, very effective four-wheel discs, well-located struts all around. I’ve never read a report which criticises the Beta’s handling (aside from minor quibbles which happen in all cars) and it is a lot of fun, much more so than feel-free modern cars. I use it everyday and to my surprise it’s been almost totally reliable, as long as you take care of it (as I’m sure you realise) – just preventative maintenance like keeping fluid levels up and sorting small problems before they become large ones. One of the good things about the Beta is that (at least IMHO) it’s one of the first cars which really ‘looks’ modern. You can tell, for example, that as graceful as a Fulvia’s lines are, it’s clearly a product of the ‘60s. But the Beta was part of the new generation of Italian metal, along with Bertone’s mid-engined efforts, the Alfasud, the 127, Mk1 Golf (designed by Giugiaro of course) and the rest of that generation that really formed the blueprint for modern cars. Strut suspension, disc brakes, overhead cam motors, and a move towards a ‘modern’ look. It’s a difficult thing to describe but I suspect you know what I mean. It took the rest of the industry at least until the eighties to catch up, some might suggest certain manufacturers still haven’t…

The stickiness in the gearchange is almost certain to be bushings. There’s one particular bushing in the linkage which wears quickly and there is a knack to replacing it but once you learn it’s not too hard. Not sure for LHD cars but the linkage in RHD versions is so incredibly convoluted I still shake my head that it works at all, let alone as well as it does.

Just one word of caution about fitting different steering wheels. I have a Momo Prototipo sitting in the cupboard opposite from where I’m writing this and I’ve held off fitting it instead of the stock factory item. Obviously this is down to personal preference, and you probably aren’t too bothered about it as you haven’t commented on it (not that I noticed anyway), but since your car doesn’t have power steering (at least I don’t think it should), small wheels can present a bit of a problem when it comes to tight manoeuvring. The ratio is something like 3.9 turns lock-to-lock which isn’t that quick but even so it weights up considerably at anything below about 5km/h. I find the stock response when I tell people about this is that I should, “Drive it like a man”, but it’s just something to bear in mind...(For reference, my Momo’s outer circumference is almost identical to the stock item’s inner circumference, and even that sort of minimal difference can have quite a significant effect at that speed.)

Is air-con essential? One is tempted to say just drive with the windows down...my car does have the air-con system but it’s never worked in the time I’ve owned it and I’ve never felt the need to spend money to make it do so. I know previous owners have to little effect, and much the same applies for a colleague with a blue ’77 HPE, but that might just be unlucky. It seems from the responses here that it’s perfectly possible to make it work well.

[bobg]

i have used carpeting out of a hpe model and will sell cheap. email me offline to discuss at goldtown43@hotmail.com

also other knick knacks you may need if you decide to get this.

bob

[chrisc]

On that note, if anyone in the uk needs hpe carpet, I still need to clear out some of my stuff, especially as it looks like I might be moving house (buying one!) in the near future. So, carpets and boot carpets going free to anyone who can collect them - Frome, somerset

[mogul_x]

Scott - if I buy this car, I'd like to take you up on the offer.


OK - keep me posted. If I could also get the old glovebox lock from your car after you switch everything over, that would be great.

[Tony K]

Scott -

I decided to "think about it" for a little (like a week), and, surprisingly, the ad disappeared right away! Usually Lancias are advertised for months and months, especially in Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, etc. when they do turn up.. I wonder if the guy sold it, but I won't be able to contact him until I get my cell phone bill! :(

I like the 70s Betas because of the interiors and chrome bits, but I like the 81-82 cars because of the fuel injection/2-liter . . . I wanted to drive or at leas *see* a FI car before jumping on the first 1800 carb Beta I look at . . . A friend turned me on to a 1-owner 1970s 1800 coupe that is priced above average, but doesn't need anything. I'm interested, but can't travel to see it at the moment. The car that I drove a couple of weeks ago and was thinking of buying had a cracked dash, etc., and would have needed a lot of work and time to make it nice . . . so I can wait a little bit. . . .

Thanks,

Tony

[Gregory Smith]

About #4: Dash Mat still makes fitted anti-glare dash covers for the Betas, about $20 and covers most cracks, and lots of colors but of course black is the best for the anti-glare feature. Sure beats shiny vinyl when driving toward the sun!

And about the A/C, I resurrected mine by installing new orings and 134a fittings, then just 2 cans of Suva and I have nice cold air. Sounds silly but us NWers are sensitive that way.

[Jim Keller]

Hey Tony,
If you want a decent 81 Fuel injected Coupe for a heck of a good price, you should buy my old one fron Dennis Jones. It doesnt' need much to be a show car, pretty much a repaint and some minor touching up. I had went through that car and Dennis has done even more to it since I sold it to him. It has a lot of rare good stuff on it, like front spoiler, Koni struts, ANSA muffler, new clutch, pressure plate, TO bearing, timing belt, tune up, 195/60 14 Falken directional tires and the list goes on, I put nearly $4k in it when I had it and it can be purchased now for half that and possibly less. It is white, you can see it and get contact info here:
http://dennisjones.tripod.com/Lancia/Lancia.html
Another good thing, it's real close to ya! It is located in Napoleon Ohio, up near Toledo. It is a very strong car I would have NEVER sold had we not been forced to, thanks to lifes little hic ups! :cry:

[Tony K]

Hi Jim,

Funny you should mention that - I've been in touch with Dennis, and we talked about my going to see the car this weekend! I called him after I drove the red 1800, and he did not have it out of winter hibernation yet. Hopefully I will get to take a look at it this weekend. . . . (and when I mentioned looking at an FI car above, I was actually thinking of his car in particular). I'm a bit concerned about the rust (and I don't want another project), but I have to see it for myself before I judge anything. . ..

Regards,

[Jim Keller]

Don't worry about the rust, the car only has about 10K more miles, (actually much less, I was trying to be conservitaive when I sold it to Dennis, more likely around 5 to 6K tops), than what it shows on the clock, the speedo cable broke on me on a very cold morn and I didnt' drive the car much after that before Dennis fixed it, so it for one, has very low miles. For seconds, the previous owner pour 15'ed and undercoated/rust proofed the living daylights out of the car the whole time he had it. Then, it was off the road, even though it came from NY, for many years in his garage due to the pressure plate collapsed so the clutch slipped, hence why I had to stick a clutch in it and all new brakes, rotors, pads, calipers etc...brakes froze/rusted from sitting, the original clutch disc still looked new, but I had new parts there so I didn't re-use it. The rust is for the most part, very little edge type that started from stone chips on the outside, not much coming through anywhere that I am aware of. What is thru, should be easy to patch up and more or less pin-hole type bubbles. It will not need any panels or major undertaking to make it sweet. It looks great from 2 to 5 feet now when it's all cleaned up. The PO did repaint it once using much brighter BMW white so you will have to prep it well prior to painting it. My buddy here in Marion can do all that body/paint work for you, (with me as a helper only now), we have done several Betas so he is very familiar with them, especially that one! ha ha.
Let me know how it turns out, we, (my wife and I), had plans to probably buy it our selfs in the next few weeks to a month or so, but I'll wait to see what you do, plus I have another deal I want to do first anyway, will let ya'll know about that Saturday night or Sunday.
Dennis is a great guy, you'll like him! :D

[lars-j]

I had an 82 HPE i.E., and from that car I would like to note some downsides of the cars. I never got the exhaust header tight until I totally reversed the system, adding a flexible part under the car to take care of the engine movements acting on the header gasket. Wind winders and fan switch had to be replaced all two years.
While the suspension was sporty, the HPE shell was just to weak due to its long doors, I don't know if the Coupe is better. My current Delta looks not as smart, but drives way better.

Lars J.

93 Delta GT
91 MX-5
77 Montecarlo

[Jim Keller]

I've never driven an HPE, but I have driven and owned several Zagatos and Coupes. The Zags bodies do flex a lot but not nearly as bad as our 92 Ford Mustang 5.0L convertible. The Coupes are pretty tight in comparison, the one Tony is looking at is particurly tight. What was worn out I pretty much replaced or repaired to a point then Dennis took over, it still had a few bugs in it when he took over, but only a very few. I don't think he has put but very few miles on it, like proibably not even 5K, since he purchased it from me and I know he did a lot of little things right after he picked it up from me. I stand by the car and the price Dennis wants really makes it a great buy. :D