Gearbox oil capacity?

[Pope1]

My data indicate that the gearbox/diff should take 1.8L of oil. So I drained everything and put in 1.8L. I have two different dipsticks but both were from VX coupe's. One dipstick says I have too much oil in there and the other says that the level is just around the Min mark. Drained out enough oil to get the first one to the Max mark - 300 cc. Will check again (and top up) when the gearbox is back in the car, maybe it's tilted backwards more now than it's supposed to be when in situ???

1. Would someone confirm whether 1.8L is the correct quantity please?
2. Is the correct dipstick a short one that just protrudes from the top of the diff housing or a long one in a tube that reaches up to the top of the engine?

[Fingers]

I don't know about the capacity, but the dipstick on mine comes right up to the top of the engine, I have no reason to believe this had been modified.

[Shant Fabricatorian]

My handbook says 1.8L (1.6kg) for the box/diff (fully drained) but I don't know whether the Volumex has a different amount.

On the dipstick issue, unless Volumexes differ from standard ones it sounds like you have one engine oil dipstick (the long one reaching up to the top of the engine in a tube) and one gearbox/diff one (the short one that is a b!tch to get at). That might explain the differing readings?

[Pope1]

Shant, thanks for confirming the capacity and Fingers(Paul) thanks for letting us know that you've got a long one that has not been modified! :D (See my other comments below). As far as I know the VX has the same capacity as the others. I believe that they all share the same casing, only the internals vary. That said, the diameter of the hole where the dipstick goes does seem to vary between diff cases.

Yes indeed the short one was a real b!tch to get at. Proof, I suppose that size does matter, regardless of what we keep hearing! :D I had the short one fitted originally and then changed to the other one when I changed the gearbox. I can understand that I'd get different readings with different dipsticks, what threw me was how they could both be wrong - one said too little, the other said too much.

I'll put back 300cc when the box is back in the car tomorrow, check which dipstick seems more accurate and go with that. In the meantime, I'd be grateful if other VX owners could let me know which dipstick the car is actually supposed to have.

[A1.6HPE]

Hello Chris,
Transmission dip-sticks are in the grey zone! There has been much discussion in the Montecarlo/Scorpion technical forum. My HPE is a 1983 1600 and it still has the factory fill in the transmission and the level is about 10mm above the MAX line! Dipstick has 130mm from tip to shoulder of rubber bung, 111mm from MAX to shoulder, 117 from MIN to shoulder. Montecarlo and all FWD variants have the same capacity 1.8 litres/0.47 US Gals and specify draining from both plugs but filling only via the dipstick hole.
My experience with replacing the transmission in my Montecarlo led me to believe that the early units have a larger hole for the dipstick and the dipstick has a metal "bung" with an O-ring seal whereas the later units have a smaller hole and the dipstick has a rubber bung. I heard that the standard factory practice was to overfill inorder to ensure that there was sufficient oil splash to lubricate the upper gears properly. So I suggest that you make a mark on the dipstick at a point 100 down from the shoulder of the bung (the shoulder that stops the dipstick going further in) and fill up to that level. I reckon that is close to 2 litres and works fine in my Montecarlo.
I don't know about Betas having a tube type though.

Best regards, Leo

[Pope1]

Leo, a very interesting and useful set of pointers. Thank you.

1. I did not drain from both plugs. I found the one at the bottom of the gearbox and used that to drain the oil a few months ago when I changed to Reline MTL. Having taken the gearbox out of the car, I then found the one at the bottom of the diff and used that. I was surprised that the oil was so dirty as I'd hardly used the car in between. Now I know why, some oil obviously remains in there if you only use one.

2. You've also cleared up the differences that I found with the different dipsticks, hole sizes and sealing arrangements. The metal tube that I mentioned has the metal bung and O ring to fit into the hole in the diff and the dipstick runs down inside that. I don't believe it was standard for either gearbox because the bung did not fit properly and I've had to file it down to fit.

I wasn't sure whether overfilling would cause any problems so now you've put my mind at rest on that score, I'll re-examine everything tomorrow in the light of your data.

[SubGothius]

My HPE is a 1983 1600 and it still has the factory fill in the transmission... 8O Am I reading you correctly? You've got 20+ year old oil in your transaxle?! No offense intended, but Lancia recommends swapping it out every 18 months or 30kKm/18kMi! Believe me, you will want to do this forthwith, just to see the accumulated metal grit, shavings and chips that come out. 8O :!:

Hopefully, it has a magnetic gear-oil drain plug (mine had one when I bought it well-used, no idea if it was stock or aftermarket) to hold all those metal bits out of suspension (and makes pulling the drain plug much more "entertaining"); if not, you'll wanna get a spare magnetic engine-oil drain plug and replace the larger of the two transaxle drains with that when you put fresh oil in (or you can just degrease your old plug, then epoxy a small neodymium magnet to it and let that cure before reinserting it).

[A1.6HPE]

Hello SubGothius,
Thanks for your message, yes I believe that it is the 21 year old vintage oil. On the dipstick it looks as good as new.
You are of course correct, please do not report me for maltreatment of a Beta! Not sure how that happened, the car was last serviced by a Lancia garage at 33,000 miles so maybe they replaced the oil, will check. Currently sitting at just over 46,000 miles so I'm not too bad although time-wise I'm several years overdue.
I will replace the oil in the next few days - thanks for pointing this out, I must admit that I thought transmission oil was good for many thousands of miles and as I say it looks lovely on the dipstick.
Guess I'd better do the Delta as well.

Leo (head held low)

[Pope1]

Leo, feel badly if you must, but take comfort in the fact that you are not alone.

I, too, was not aware that Lancia recommended such frequent oil changes and have never performed one as part of a routine service. Yes I plead guilty to ignorance (in this regard). I only changed mine recently when I realised that I probably had an EP oil in there and that may have been a contributing factor in the demise of the last gearbox! Hence, the switch to Redline MTL in the gearbox and Tutela in the supercharger. All this in the hope that the car will look upon me favourably in the future, and not get all temperamental about things if a week-end should pass by and I fail to spend some time attending to "her".

For me, cars have always been "its" I'm afraid, but I do fear that Lancias have certain female tendencies in that they get distinctly grumpy if you do not pay sufficient attention to them every week, and spend some money on them every month. God help me, the political correctness police will probably be hunting down my IP address right now. If you see me in court on sexism charges (as opposed to sex offences) please club together sufficient funds to stand bail for me. Cheers.

[SubGothius]

...the car was last serviced by a Lancia garage at 33,000 miles so maybe they replaced the oil, will check.If said garage is worth their salt and esp. if they serviced the car regularly, I should hope they'd done so.
Currently sitting at just over 46,000 miles so I'm not too bad although time-wise I'm several years overdue.
I will replace the oil in the next few days - thanks for pointing this out, I must admit that I thought transmission oil was good for many thousands of miles and as I say it looks lovely on the dipstick.
Guess I'd better do the Delta as well.
Leo (head held low)Chin up, mate. Live'n'learn! :D

FWIW, I don't think one can "read" the condition of gear oil in the same way as engine oil, since the former is not subject to combustion-related factors as the latter. Replacing the gear oil doesn't seem so much a matter of the oil itself going bad; rather, it's more about flushing out those particles (and larger!) of worn-off metal, so they don't contribute to further premature wear. I might suspect that if one could adequately filter drained gear oil, then so-cleansed, it could go right back in to refill; however, don't hold me to that, as use could conceivably introduce shear damage and such to the oil's molecular composition, which would at least alter its viscosity out of spec (e.g. thin your 90 wt. down to an 80, 70, or worse!).

Chris, the Thought Police are on Barbados now too? And here I'd figured tropical island living would be more speakeasy... :roll: Still, I think you've got an "out" so long as you stick to "tendencies" and avoid blanket generalizations such as, "all A are B", or worse, "this A must be B because all As are just like that anyway" -- leave room for individual exception/variance. That said, I agree that our Lancias tend to be as many women tend to be (see how I did the song'n'dance there? 8) ) -- grumpy if they don't get direct and personal interaction on a regular basis! :lol:

[Pope1]

One of the benefits of living here is that there's not a hint of political correctness and the thought police are conspicuous by their absence, even though this is a very conservative country in many ways. However, this being an international forum, I figured that some international watchdog would probably be tracking me down for the "inappropriate views" expressed in my last post. It's good to know that by only referring to "tendencies" I've probably been able to get away with it. :D