How many of you use your Beta everyday?

[Shant Fabricatorian]

A point made in passing on a rally forum I frequent got me thinking. The topic drifted (from Markko's first run in the 307 to Integrales, as you do...) and one of the posters mentioned he'd like to buy an Integrale to use as a daily driver (but they're too expensive).

What about your Betas? The newest ones are now twenty years old, which is quite a lot, but with a few mods I find they can still be amazingly effective daily drivers. I use mine everyday, and it's good in the bits that count, i.e. mechanicals and body. The interior is reasonable but the upholstery is tatty and the driver's seat is, quite literally, falling to pieces (seems to be an ever-greater amount of sunburnt foam every time I vacuum underneath it). This doesn't stop me driving it so it's ok for the moment, but it's a problem that will have to be tackled eventually, probably when there isn't enough foam to support me. Likewise the mechanicals will one day need a thorough overhaul if I intend to keep using it everyday. I've decided I'd quite like to do a lot of it myself and do it up properly, but herein lies a dilemma. Assuming it's completed (one day), if it were your car, would you be inclined to use it as a weekend fun car, or as a substitute for a new car?

That's the thing. A fully-restored MGB, for example, can be used everyday without any problems, as a substitute for a new car. On the other hand a Beta is not, thankfully, an MGB, and parts availability isn't as off-the-shelf instant. I do want to keep using it, for two main reasons. 1) I love the looks in a way that almost no modern car 'does' for me, and 2) it's a lot more fun and will outhandle a lot of TC/ESP'd modern cars with power-everything. And for the moment it serves my needs very well. But two questions really - does anyone use their Beta as a daily driver, and if so, do you think you're approaching a point when it'll have to be swapped for something a bit more modern?

[chrisc]

I dont :cry:

But i did use my other hpe vx everyday, doing over 200 miles a week before it died, and that was through a garages incompetence than any inherent failing.

[_JL_]

Winter is little problem with old car like beta. I know it could be driven through winter, but there is no idea. Prisma is going to be winter car and for summer it's coupe.
Prisma is still little project, but in sort time it will be ok.
Happily my bicycle still works, it's the best choice ;)

[cthargiss]

I drove a Beta Coupe daily for over twenty years and 500,000 miles, until it finally wore out beyond repair. It was the best ski car I ever owned. A Scorpion replaced it.
Craig

[Pope1]

When I first got my current one back in 1995, I used it as my every day car and did not see much point in having it and doing otherwise. However, I had to take it off the road in 1997 for the bodywork to be seen to and then everything changed. Got myself a company car and a house that needed a lot of time and money. Both of these things conspired to make the Beta a long term restoration project and now it is destined to be a week-end car only. The only saving grace is that I am hoping that this will be the final set of shocks, bushes etc that I have to fit to it and that the car will last for some considerable time with only minimal use.

[wainstones]

I've had my Beta Coupe for years but have just recently put it back on the road after a full rebuild (which took longer that I expected). But since last summer, it's covered 8000 almost faultless miles. And in all those miles, including journeys covering the length of the UK, I've not seen another Beta on the road. Maybe everyone else just polishes theirs and saves it for show days!

[JBsZ06]

I've had my Beta Coupe for years but have just recently put it back on the road after a full rebuild (which took longer that I expected). But since last summer, it's covered 8000 almost faultless miles. And in all those miles, including journeys covering the length of the UK, I've not seen another Beta on the road. Maybe everyone else just polishes theirs and saves it for show days!

I always wondered if you could use a Beta as a nice every day driver too..

While I owned a Lancia Scorpion years back (sold with over 140K miles owned for over a decade as a weekend/sometimes daily driver)...and loved it...(sometimes hated it too though) my cousin had a Beta coupe that he loved..

Always wondered if a restored beta would make a good daily driver...

What do they normally run for? (restored with some target as a daily driver)

[Fingers]

I used mine as a daily driver for about four years, and it only really let me down once. The starter just wouldn't turn, then by magic it burst into life. Now it only comes out a couple of times a month and can actually live in a garage and not on the street.

[SubGothius]

I drive my Zagato every day... when it's actually roadworthy, that is, but fortunately, that's been the usual state of affairs (knock on genuine faux authentic woodgrain Formica). Since I first got it back in February, I've only had to park it for an extended period of time on two occasions, pending only my own wherewithal to effect a repair personally.

Worn tie-rod ends were responsible for the first extended layup -- word to the wise: if you have the ZF power steering and can locate NOS OEM ends, go ahead and buy them to save for future contingency. As in, right now. And save the big nylock nut when you take the old ends off. ;)

Within days after finally installing my new ends, my timing belt slipped a few notches (http://www.lancisti.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1292). :evil: Now that I'm back in town from Chanukwanzyulmas holiday travels to visit family, I'll soon be initiating myself into the Ancient and Esoteric Rite of DIY Cambelt Replacement... :roll:

However, to me, this all tends to confirm the "common wisdom" I've heard (also said of FIAT 124 Spiders) that these cars are actually most reliable when driven daily and don't like being left to sit for extended periods of time (would you?).

FWIW, I paid $2k for mine @ 114kMi from the PO who'd saved it from a junkyard fate and fully restored it (not concours, just a presentable and cross-continent-reliable daily driver state) with scads of pricey, age-inevitable work and parts replacements already done for me since rolling the odo @ 100kMi.

[Skufy]

"these cars are actually most reliable when driven daily"

I'd agree with that, my only major problem has been a sticking starter motor on my ie - caused by damp cold uk weather and not used for a month or two. Car is back in the sun but is still haveing cold weather flashbacks so the 1600 now has the top role.

[sickchilly]

The 124 Spider and the Beta see shared daily duty here. Beta more often recently since PacNW winters don't exactly favor convertibles!

My favorite Beta feature is the seats. Way more comfortable than even many modern cars.

[SubGothius]

...PacNW winters don't exactly favor convertibles!...nor, for that matter, rear-wheel drive! Front-wheel drive is definitely a bonus, especially a really good FWD setup like ours, for those slippery winter conditions. Tho' I s'pose the PacNW is a bit milder in that regard than, say, Green Bay, WI where I recently visited over the holidays and drove my dad's RWD Mazda 929S thru the local ice, slush and snow -- hadda stay mindful of avoiding FWD winter driving habits (e.g., pumping the gas pedal around slick turns for successive "bites" of traction), but controlling the RWD fishtailing with doses of opposite-lock was kinda fun for a change... :D
...my only major problem has been a sticking starter motor...I wonder if replacing the starter solenoid would solve this? Seems to me that thermal contraction and/or damp conditions would more likely bollix a small electrical actuator like that than it would a high-torque electric motor, non? Fitting a new solenoid is at least relatively easier and cheaper than removing the starter itself, let alone rebuilding or replacing it, so seems worth a try as first recourse to me.

BTW, whenever my Zag's been undergoing or awaiting repair and friends start giving me any guff for using such an old, peculiar, "unreliable" car as my daily driver, my explanation (rationalization ;) ) goes thusly: I own the car outright, thoroughly enjoy driving it, and don't need to rely on it for my (admittedly tenuous) livelihood (http://HTDoctor.com/). I could be making payments on a later-model car and be risking a repo if I can't muster any regular installment (not to mention hefty in$urance for a pricier, financed car 8O ), or I could have spent my $2k on a car of similar vintage/mileage that's either more reliable but soul-crushingly bland to drive, or somewhat engaging to drive but prolly no more reliable than mine. To me, the choice was obvious. 8)

[Maigret]

I had always had old FIATS and have done my own maintenance. It helps to keep in mind upcoming maintenance issues and resolve a solution before hand. That is I usually have the parts before I start if possible.

The VX has been very reliable though and most expenses have been for routine parts like brake pads etc.(apart from when I hit a curb last year :? )
I did the motor up 3 years ago and it had only 3 thou wear on the bore after 220000km!

I chose the car because I like FIAT/Lancias, it is quick and handles well. Considering its rarity easy to get parts for (try getting parts for a 20 year old japanese car) Seats adults in the back with good leg room. Hatchback and folding seats. I have even thrown a matress in the back to sleep in it (fold front seats forward). It also makes a good tow car.

The most unreliable part is the fuse box. Those damn bullet type seem to corrode easily. I am thinking of rewiring a more modern fuse box up using the blade type. Regular use of the car reduces problems.

My Esprit uses the old glass type fuses except for the radiador fans and guess which fuse gives trouble. Fortunately it has a warning light on the dash if the fans fail to start.

FWD or RWD doesn't really matter so long as you have the right tyres on.

[lanciacollector]

It continually has problems but you learn to not notice

[Fingers]

Yeah I've also always had old FIATs riht from my first car, but drifted off to Audi for a year then to My VX. Always done most of my own maintenance, and you get to know the way these cars "think". A lot of the principles from my first FIAT are still there in the VX and you just sort of know what's going on when you have a problem, glad it's not a complicated car though.

[SubGothius]

[Deleted duplicate of post below - forum was frozen this AM! 8O )

[SubGothius]

[Another deleted duplicate of post below - forum was frozen this AM! 8O )

[SubGothius]

Heh! :lol: Before I got my Zagato nearly a year ago, my previous car (granted, after 4+ grueling carless years, but still...) was a bronze '84 Audi 5000S wagon (aka 100 Avant elsewhere) with, of all things, a 5-speed manual stick. Its PO was apparently in the US military and stationed in Germany, and had bought the car in US spec at the factory (with the 5-speed option normally not available, or at least very rare special-order, for US-bound wagons -- strange, extra-low Alpine ratios, tho'...) to drive during his tour of duty there and then have shipped back here. I put a Nakamichi tape deck in it, 4 Advent ICT mains (sweet stereo imaging) and a Bazooka tube sub driven by a Hafler 6-ch amp -- that fastback wagon had fantastic acoustics... I had way more maintenance problems with it than I have with the Zag so far (knock on faux genuine woodgrain-print finish), but as you can tell, I do sometimes miss that car (especially while I was carless!)... would have made quite the shag-wagon too... 8)

That, after driving my folx' cars, namely a champagne '84 VW Quantum (aka Passat or Santana elsewhere) sedan w/ the Audi-kit 5-cyl, that succeeding their black '82 (?) Audi 5000S sedan, which had succeeded their '79 FIAT Brava (131) wagon (bright metallic green -- minty fresh! :D ), then it was FIATs all the way back past my birth (blood-red '71 124 coupe, ivory '69 124 coupe).

So yeah, FIAT to Audi to Lancia is a progression very familiar to me. ;)

I do also agree that ours are the sort of cars one can get to know almost like a person, indeed, a good friend, hitting it off right away and bonding over the years, seeing how they tick and how to "read" them. It's easy to learn whatever you need when it comes up, looking up things in the repair manuals or just inspecting and tinkering as you go, and seeing how the pieces of knowledge fall together in your head like a jigsaw map as you learn more pieces of the puzzle. Everything about the car's engineering has a human scale, almost like eavesdropping on the original engineers' thinking as we figure this stuff out; you can tell where and how one person devised (good word for it!) some particular component or system on their own and the thought process they went thru, or how they collaborated with the sole engineer responsible for a related bit -- not like the impersonal CAD and massive "engineering pool" resources that go into most modern cars at all. Gimme that olde-skoole ad-hoc Italian know-how! :twisted:

[JBsZ06]

Yeah I've also always had old FIATs riht from my first car, but drifted off to Audi for a year then to My VX. Always done most of my own maintenance, and you get to know the way these cars "think". A lot of the principles from my first FIAT are still there in the VX and you just sort of know what's going on when you have a problem, glad it's not a complicated car though.

Great forum! and thanks for all the information...

Maybe one day..as I retire in a few years..I'll come across a nice beta coupe and have at it again...

Are most of the parts still available (georgia or europe? do fiat parts still suffice quite often?

[Will]

...does using it as a TOOL BOX / GARAGE STORAGE count????
:)

Actually, I love to take my scorpion out in the snow, before they plow and sand the roads. I think it handles pretty good in the snow- all things considered. At any rate, snow is the only time it really has enough power to steer with the throttle, can't do that on dry pavement with a near-stock 1.8!

Unfortunately, blocked in with 3000lbs of secondhand computers now, so the car won't be going anywhere soon!

-Will