ANTI-FREEZE

[A1.6HPE]

Hello all,
Had a life-changing moment today!
Went to buy some anti-freeze and the guy asked me what colour I wanted. I had been aware of different colours of the stuff but assumed that it was just different manufacturers. I asked the guy and he related the colour to the age of the car - "1983, that will be the blue". However then the subject of corrosion inhibitor came into it and then I lost confidence in his opinion.
So can anyone tell me the story? Would I be better with a different colour? They have blue, red and green. I have always used Lancia blue.

Best regards, Leo
(for readers in the USA - colour = color, French - colour = couleur, German - colour = farbe, others - http://translate.google.com/translate_t
and please, no humour/humor about making Auntie freeze!

[rossocorsa]

last year I bought some supposedly extra long lasting antifreeze from halfords for the delta hpe, seemed like a good idea the snag, if you are into concours, is it's a girlie pink colour. I always used to use bluecol lovely colour!

[chrisc]

The only info I have on this is that the blue and red react badly.

[Pope1]

The world is becoming far too complex for my liking.

I don't need to use anti-freeze :D but use a summer coolant or radiator additive. Never imagined that the colour might be of critical importance so I will pay more attention in future. The last set was the reddy-pink girlie stuff that is supposed to have anti-rust, extended life properties and contains lubricants to help the water pump. Seemed like a good thing to fill up with as I was changing the water pump at the time.

[Hamish]

:lol: Nice one Leo...
But a useful 'thing' .... my Renault :x has 'girlie pink' antifreeze which I thought (at first) was a Renault 'thing'. Not so. I was told by a motor factors in the cold granite city (that's Aberdeen to anyone who cares) that the modern 'girlie' coloured jobs are much more efficient and to echo what Chris has said the old and new do not mix with success 8O

I was advised that contemporary Paraflu - still blue - has all these fancy 'bits' (like the technical description :?: ) but others such as Vauxhall which is also 'girlie pink' do the same job and are cheaper.....
But I was told in no uncertain terms that if you use the 'new' stuff - in whatever hue takes your fancy - you must thoroughly flush the whole system out.
What's it going to do :?: Explode :?: :!: :!:

[SubGothius]

I've been wondering about coolant choices myself lately, even briefly scanned thru the Cooling Fluids & Additives (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=37) forum topic at BobIsTheOilGuy.com (http://bobistheoilguy.com/) ("oil porn" as one poster there recently called it :lol: ).

Anyway, I'm still not sure yet which coolant may be the "best" coolant for our engines, but going on the premise that our engines and cooling systems were engineered with fairly olde-skoole coolants in mind, I might expect that coolants formulated for the latest-design cooling systems (e.g. "DexCool" -- usually an orange-dyed coolant) might not be an ideal match. Right now, I'm leaning towards a "high mileage vehicle" coolant formula (e.g., Zerex MaxLife -- looks just like the Valvoline MaxLife oil products, same corporate famly) as the most likely at-least-safe option, and perhaps even a good match for our classic cars with a few miles/km under their belts.

BTW, I'd once read that phospate content in coolant was not good for engines or coolant systems containing any aluminum, as the phosphates would bind readily to aluminum and thus, so the argument went, would erode aluminum from the system; however, some of the "coolant fetish" posters at the site linked above have counter-argued that this phosphate binding is actually a desirable thing, as the phosphates bind to aluminum surfaces but, rather than leaching away any aluminum, will actually stay-put to form a protective layer against further corrosion. Alas, I'm not aware of any empirical evidence to support either argument's conclusions... :? "G-05" formulas apparently have neither phosphates nor silicates, so while perhaps less-than-ideal if you buy into the phosphate-protection argument, it should be at-least-safe and avoid the whole phosphate and silicate controversies altogether. :lol:

Regrding the dye colors, they tend to represent formulation differences, tho' they often just serve proprietary interests (e.g., convincing J.Q. Public that their overpriced dealer shop has a "special coolant" to meet the "unique needs" of their marque's engines :roll: ). Anecdotal reports, at least, have indicated apparent problems (sludgy deposits, seal failures) after mixing some formulas, so for now, the general rule-of-thumb for switching to a different color/formulation of coolant prescribes a thorough flush-until-clear of your cooling system (including heater core -- remember to move your dash lever to full-heat temp when flushing!) before putting any new coolant of unlike-color into your system.

[A1.6HPE]

Hello gang,
Thanks for your replies. I bought blue stuff as that is what I am accustomed to but my Montecarlo has green coolant so its good to know that I should not mix 'em. So for interest I wil buy some green and hope that there is some technical stuff on the label.
With global warming, even Scots will not anti-freeze in the future. Gone are the days when I used to drive around for days without windscreen washers as the tube from the rear bottle (Delta) had frozen up.

Leo

[cthargiss]

CAUTION: The mixing of 'DexCool' (orange) with glycol based anti-freeze(Prestone, Zerex, etc.) will cause gelling, and resulting expensive repairs. DexCool has also been known to gell on its own in the presence of certain aluminum alloys. GM had a big problem with this a few years ago. If you have been using a standard glycol anti-freeze, I would strongly recommend against switching to an extended life DexCool type.
Craig

[SubGothius]

Just found this interesting link:
http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/DTurcotte_Mag_53_g.pdf

This confirms that DEX-COOL type (usually orange) coolants or any other OAT (organic acid technology) formulations are not suitable for our older engines raised on the green stuff, but G-05 type (usually yellow) coolants or other HOAT (hybrid organic acid technology) formulations should work fine.

I infer that the latter might mix okay with ol'green, but if I were picking up any of the new stuff, I'd still prefer to err on the side of caution and good system hygiene by taking it as an opportunity to peform a thorough flush job anyway. ;)

[Shant Fabricatorian]

Looking for closure on this topic I went to my local parts shop today, they only had red and green - to echo the sentiments raised above, I was told that mixing is not on.

Some manufacturers even warn against mixing different types of (same colour) coolant. Personally I think that's verging on the safe side, maybe against lawsuits, but it's worth bearing in mind.

Anyway, a flush and refill is in order. As the car has run on the green stuff as long as I've known it, that's what I'm going for - unless of course anyone has anything to say to the contrary? Speak now, or forever hold your peace... :lol:

(Good tip re the heater core by the way Tye, I wouldn't have remembered otherwise.)

[Pope1]

From what I've read just now the green stuff is the safest choice. Don't see how you can go wrong with that.

I've got some red stuff in mine at the moment and the container gives no indication what type it is so I'm wondering what to do. Only put it in about 5 days ago when I put the engine back in. It's supposed to be a summer coolant additive for tropical conditions rather than an anti-freeze so maybe it's a bit different??

[SubGothius]

Chris, I suspect you've got something akin to a mixture of distilled water with Redline "Water Wetter" or equivalent. Anti-freeze lowers the freeze point of coolant, but IIRC it also lowers the boiling point. For high-temp/tropical conditions where and when temps will never dip below freezing, it's actually best to avoid anti-freeze and go with plain distilled water, better yet with a Water Wetter type of additive, which typically has seal conditioners and corrosion inhibitors but is primarily a "surfactant" -- meaning it alters the surface tension of the liquid to improve heat transfer and resist formation of bubbles on interior surfaces of your cooling system (like when a pot of water is about to boil, you get tiny vapor bubbles lining the inside surface of the pot underwater, which in a cooling system would act as an insulation layer -- not good for heat-transfer cooling action!).

[Pope1]

Tye, thanks for the explanation. I never put tap water into the car, the water here is far too hard. Its normally 60% distilled water and about 40% of the additive that claims to have the conditioners and lubricants that you mentioned. Guess I don't have to be so concerned then.

[Will]

....since somebody mentioned DISTILLED water, let me ask you something?
Distilled water means it has been turned to steam and recondensed so as to lose the minerals, right?
Then you pour it into your motor, which for all intents is a chunk of (probably rusty) iron and aluminum, and maybe brass or copper where your radiator is.
What keeps the water distilled? Or rather, what keeps the rust, iron, aluminum oxide, and cupric oxide from quickly making the water "undistilled" again?

[Pope1]

Will, the water probably does not stay distilled once its in the engine but you've missed one piece of the puzzle. Water here is very hard. It's saturated with calcium carbonate which produces deposits in kettles within days. The reason I use the distilled water is that I don't fancy adding that calcium carbonate to the rest of the crap that's in there.

[Will]

...I wasn't knocking you for using distilled water,
I'm just wondering at what point the water becomes conductive and, therefore, an electrolyte (which presumably then rots your engine) vs. antifreeze, which has corrosion inhibitors in the solution. Just curious- I don't profess to know that distilled water by itself is no good, but I have had weak antifreeze solutions lead to rust and at least one rotted freeze plug in various cars I've owned in the past.
-Will

[Pope1]

Sure no problem Will. We're all just exchanging ideas and experiences with the aim of getting the most out of our cars for as long as possible. Maybe you scanned the previous posts a little too quickly, as I don't think that anyone mentioned using distilled water alone. :wink:

I figure that the mixture of distilled water together with the summer coolant is the best I can do but I'm certainly no expert. After one bad experience with a previous car where the coolant was a bit strong and started rotting the hoses, I figure that 40% coolant and 60% water is a reasonable compromise. The stuff I'm using at the moment claims to be an extended life radiator additive with a corrosion inhibitor and lubricants for the water pump. Given ambient temperatures here ranging from 20 degrees C at the very lowest up to about 34 degrees in middle of the day in summer, I can't think of a better alternative for year round protection.

However, I'm very much open to ideas so please shout if my current approach is not the best way to go.