Old struts and new cars

[Pope1]

We've had quite a few discussions about struts in recent months and I was wondering whether someone could confirm a theory. The old cars had strut housings that allowed the damper inserts to be replaced where as the newer ones have the strut and damper all as one assembly. My car has the latter.

I have assumed that it should be possible to get old housings without the inserts, purchase new inserts, and fit the refurbished item instead of the all-in-one strut/damper assembly. Has anyone actually done this? Can anyone confirm whether this is a straightforward swap (other than the problem of the undoing the damper retaining nuts at the top of the strut housing)?

[sickchilly]

Yes, it can be done. Straight-ahead swap. But good luck finding early style insert-accepting bodies. They are highly coveted for this very reason!

Then there's the task of sourcing inserts. So many manufacturers made them way back when, but finding the numbers to search for has been less than fun for me.

It might be easier to collect some catalogs and search by dimensions! Still not my idea of fun.

[Pope1]

Brand new KYB inserts were available in the UK up to a few months ago but you know what the exchange rate is like at the moment.

[sickchilly]

Well, KYB inserts have to be cheaper than Koni's even considering the exchange rate! Do you have KYB part numbers?

[Pope1]

Sure. Here's something I posted at the end of the last strut discussion a few weeks ago:

"Just discovered a source for KYB in the USA. They're unlikely to stock Lancia parts but they might be able to order them. The relevant KYB part numbers for the Beta coupe' are:

363040
365040

Cannot remember now which is front and which is rear. These are supposed to be replacements for Lancia part numbers:

Front : o.e 82341684, 82327791, 82315777, 823446272
Rear : o.e 82326804, 82318517, 82341688, 82386804, 82346274

The company is called Option Imports. "
http://www.optionimports.com/kybshocks.html

[sickchilly]

Whoops, I even read that post. Thanks for the resfresher!

[Pope1]

No problem. I myself find it difficult to keep track of all the bits of data that one encounters these days.

[Hamish]

Seems to me we need to make up a parts number 'database'.... I've forgotten more parts numbers/where you can get x or y ....
DJ - over to you on this one :wink:

I've done the new insert in old/early style struts units and it does seem to me to be the ideal solution (OK - they can be fun to fit :twisted: ). Seems to me that far more inserts come up than complete units at an affordable price :roll: I was told once that there's also a possibility that a VW insert might well fit the Beta front struts -anyone come across this as well :?:

However - find your strut units first. They are getting hard to find, I had 3 car sets and they're all gone now :?

[sickchilly]

I was told once that there's also a possibility that a VW insert might well fit the Beta front struts -anyone come across this as well

I've read a reference to something like that on another site. Can't remember where or what it was, but I want to say VW Rabbit/Golf/Jetta? Maybe first or second series?

Not sure, but whatever it was, I remember reading that they were very close, but slightly short. So the fella had to machine up some spacers to sit on top of the insert under the collar nut to take up the space. Also, I believe the extended length was slightly less than stock, but that shouldn't matter for a street car...

Surely there has to be more available for VWs than Lancias. Does anyone have access to insert supplier catalogs with dimensions? We can do some comparison and see what it would take. It would be easy enough to turn some aluminum spacers on a lathe.

[Pope1]

Before everyone gets excited about VW dampers, a word of caution. Almost every review I've read about VWs and Audis prior to the Mk V Golf has been critical of their handling.

My own Golf was a year old with 8000 miles when I bought it, and changing the dampers was one of the first mods that I did. The dampers were not worn out as far as I could tell but their behaviour was odd. It was as though they did nothing for the first inch of travel and then became firm. Consequently there was too much pitch, wallow and float at times even though they were definitely not soft. VW dampers won't be on my Christmas list I'm afraid.

If I knew that a certain VW damper fitted the Beta, I'd be rushing to get the Koni equivalent and leaving the Vee Dub one alone.

[Zagato78]

Another idea is to have new struts fabricated. We are currently having this done for the rally Beta Coupe. The only piece the builder needed was the mounting ears. Once those were removed, new tubes, modern inserts and full rally springs were build up.

While this is NOT the most cost effective way, you do get easily replaceable parts. I'll post pics of the install once completed, we have many hours of seam welding to do first.

For anyone looking to go with the older style tubes, i have a set. I'd be willing to trade for a set of new tubes. I'd like to have an extra set of ears for spares. Please let me know.

Thanks

Dan

[sickchilly]

If I knew that a certain VW damper fitted the Beta, I'd be rushing to get the Koni equivalent and leaving the Vee Dub one alone.

LOL, that was most certainly my point, Chris. Aftermarket intended for VW, not VW OEM! I'm sure some superior aftermarket inserts intended for a VW application would be more readily available than the equivalents intended for a Lancia. Especially here in the states where they seem to have bred like, well, rabbits! :D

[Pope1]

Doh! :oops: Sorry, I was a bit slow last night. Long day!

[DJ]

I've been doing some research on struts and options for new inserts for Scorpions and Betas.

I've stumbled across a bit of info regarding the early Beta rebuildable struts.

Supposedly, Bilstein provides a strut insert (B6 Sport) that will fit. The part numbers are.

Front - P30-0092
Rear - P33-0192

Anyone have an old set of strut housings that they'll loan/give/sell for cheap that I can use to continue my research?

FWIW, the VW struts that were discussed earlier in this thread are used for FIAT X1/9s and Scorpions.. However, I think the Beta struts are larger aren't they?

[Charley]

I've been doing some research on struts and options for new inserts for Scorpions and Betas.

I've stumbled across a bit of info regarding the early Beta rebuildable struts.

Supposedly, Bilstein provides a strut insert (B6 Sport) that will fit. The part numbers are.

Front - P30-0092
Rear - P33-0192

Anyone have an old set of strut housings that they'll loan/give/sell for cheap that I can use to continue my research?

FWIW, the VW struts that were discussed earlier in this thread are used for FIAT X1/9s and Scorpions.. However, I think the Beta struts are larger aren't they?
DJ, I have the original front and rear strut tubes from my Coupe on my parts shelf. At present I have sealed units installed,but who knows,in the future I may need to replace them and need the originals tubes with new inserts. I am willing to ship one of each to you only if you can return them to me after you've finished with the research. let me know.

[DJ]

DJ, I have the original front and rear strut tubes from my Coupe on my parts shelf. At present I have sealed units installed,but who knows,in the future I may need to replace them and need the originals tubes with new inserts. I am willing to ship one of each to you only if you can return them to me after you've finished with the research. let me know.

Excellent, Charley. I'm happy to send them back when I'm done. Just understand that I don't intend to try restoring the old internals. I'll certainly reassemble and return the old internals, but with no oil in the body. I'll send a PM with my address.

[davidb]

If you need stock WAY ASSAUTO Scorp struts D.J. I sent mine to
Will. IIRC I sent him my stock Beta [LBZ] rears too. Contact him.