Strut bearings?

[SubGothius]

So, now that I got my car running again (http://www.lancisti.net/forum/showthread.php?4285-Hot-stall-no-restart-Vapor-lock-Flooding-What), I took it in for an alignment with the new tires. They wisely declined to start the job because it turns out my strut bearings are bad (sloppy, not seized). I don't see these listed with any of our usual parts vendors, so is this a rather generic part, or rebuildable, or substitutable with another model's, or hen's teeth, or what? FWIW, my car supposedly has Koni inserts in the rebuildable strut body shells, if that matters.

[davidb]

If we're on the same page they're like bearing pads? For the
top of the front struts? I think these are on Beta-Boyz "to do"
[i.e. find someone to make re-pros] list. So question is if &
when? They do finally have re-pro upper rubber strut buffers.
They sell fast & are on exchange [core] basis. And are expen-
sive as only a few @ a time are "re-cored" [new rubber]. Same
thing Rod @ TMH encounters: making many is less expensive than
making a few. Not much help sorry. Something to follow tho.

[SubGothius]

Hm, now I'm not sure what exactly needs replacing. :scratch:

The shop guys had me look up from under the car with a flashlight shining up into the strut tower. When they grab the tire and wiggle it around a bit, the top of the strut shaft appears to wiggle around inside the top mount, not really like it's totally sloppy-loose, but there's visibly some "give" there.

I looked at my Haynes and factory shop manuals, and all I see in the exploded diagrams is the rubber surround in the upper mount and a "thrust plate". Is this just a plain bushing to allow rotation instead of a proper roller bearing, or does this mean the upper strut shaft is actually fixed in place, and the lower strut body rotates around it, rather than having the upper shaft attached to a strut bearing in the top mount for rotation?

At any rate, I'm guessing it's actually the rubber in the upper strut mount that would need replacement if the top of the strut shaft wiggles around too much? Or maybe the visible "give" of the shaft in the top mount is actually normal, which is why the alignment specs list toe as a range rather than a single number? :confused:

[1,6 HF]

...At any rate, I'm guessing it's actually the rubber in the upper strut mount that would need replacement if the top of the strut shaft wiggles around too much? Or maybe the visible "give" of the shaft in the top mount is actually normal, which is why the alignment specs list toe as a range rather than a single number? :confused:

If you have that kind of movement, you need to replace the rubber. The alignment range is a function of there being a little leeway either side of an ideal number. It's just a matter of acknowledging and allowing tolerance--it's not based on a "variable base line" due to slop in the suspension.

[rossocorsa]

I'm not sure that the strut bearings ever lead to sloppiness but they do seize they are needle bearings set in a circular flat plate lubricated by a smear of grease. If they seize you will get very heavy steering. I was lucky enough to buy a pair very cheaply a few years ago they look like an awkward thing to reproduce to me but let's hope that betaboyz can come up with something

[Jim Keller]

The strut shafts DO have an internal, white nylon centering bushing in the upper mount. This can be repaired instead of replaced if the bearing plate and all are still good. You wont' know until you take the upper mount apart and inspect the bearing plate, seats and that bushing. You probably noticed a bit of clunking noise over bumps and such too, that was the top of thestrut shafy banging around on the sides of the hole of the upper mount. BTDT a couple times!. If you have access to a lath and nylon bar stock, you can easily turn out a new one. It only took my friend, who was a machinest, about 15 minuets to turn a coupel our for my goog Zagato, and it was a better modern material too, should last much longer.

[LanciaDave]

Tye,

I think the part you need is something like this:

http://www.lanciabetaparts.co.uk/

Home :: SUSPENSION PARTS :: Recon Rear Strut Top Mount Coupe/Spider
SUSPENSION PARTS
Product 22/34



larger image Recon Rear Strut Top Mount Coupe/Spider
£105.00
Part# BBSP08C, This is a reconditioned rear strut top mount for the coupe and spider (zagato) models. These are sold on an exchange basis and the price includes a £35 core charge. This will be refunded on return of your old mount.

Add to Cart:

•Model: BBSP08C
•Shipping Weight: 0.9KG
•2 Units in Stock

Contact Mark about the fronts.
Sorry, not cheap. oh and the prices are in pounds, so add 50% for exchange rate, and then overseas shipping.

Dave

[davidb]

That's what I was referring to LanciaDave, the B.Boyz re-pro
upper strut plates. FWIW if one goes to PAVs post "Adjustable
Struts" & click on his pic you can see the nylon "spacer" Jim
is talking about, right under the upper plate. I now see how
if that's worn it'll wiggle/bounce around w/i the plate. Me-
thinks my struts are gonna have to come back out [again]
for inspection, likely replacement of these parts. These
parts might be the cause of my clunky, maddening ride.

[Jim Keller]

They really do not "wear" out, the actually break and "fall" out. Usually, it is after a careless strut replacement job by someone who does not understand the fragility of those bushings as I didn't until after my first repair on one. You have to be very carefull re-assembling them, making sure that bushing remains centered and unstressed as you crank stuff down, to be sure you don't snap those off. I found out through personal experiance

[davidb]

"They actually break [apart]". Sounds like Beta to me!

[KeppelmanJ]

I remember these as a sandwich affair of black rubber and pressed metal which adds some suppleness to bumps. Mine still look fine and I wonder if searching parted out cars wouldn't locate some. Obviously, no visible cracks.

[SubGothius]

The strut shafts DO have an internal, white nylon centering bushing in the upper mount. This can be repaired instead of replaced if the bearing plate and all are still good. You wont' know until you take the upper mount apart and inspect the bearing plate, seats and that bushing. You probably noticed a bit of clunking noise over bumps and such too, that was the top of thestrut shafy banging around on the sides of the hole of the upper mount. BTDT a couple times!. If you have access to a lath and nylon bar stock, you can easily turn out a new one. It only took my friend, who was a machinest, about 15 minuets to turn a coupel our for my goog Zagato, and it was a better modern material too, should last much longer.

That's what I was referring to LanciaDave, the B.Boyz re-pro
upper strut plates. FWIW if one goes to PAVs post "Adjustable
Struts" & click on his pic you can see the nylon "spacer" Jim
is talking about, right under the upper plate. I now see how
if that's worn it'll wiggle/bounce around w/i the plate. Me-
thinks my struts are gonna have to come back out [again]
for inspection, likely replacement of these parts. These
parts might be the cause of my clunky, maddening ride.
So are you guys talking about the sorta egg-shaped things at the top of the strut shafts here (http://www.lancisti.net/forum/showthread.php?4209-Adjustable-Struts&p=30757&viewfull=1#post30757), or something else? My upper plates look fine enough from the top, nothing obviously degraded/cracked/torn/separated (well maybe a tiny 1-2mm gap between rubber and metal in one small section), no apparent clunks under any conditions while driving, but I haven't bit the bullet of removal and disassembly for a full inspection yet. Maybe I've just got a cracked bushing that hasn't fallen out, so that's allowing the minuscule (really, barely perceptible) amount of play the shop guys showed me at the top of the strut shaft?