Header for 1981 Lancia Beta coupe

[Radical Racing]

I would like to put a header on my current track day Beta project. Can any one point me to a source? I prefer stainless steel.

What if I wanted to simplify the exhaust system by getting rid of the resonator? Is there a combination of header, Cat, muffler and chrome plated exhaust tip that allows me to do this and still have a decent sounding exhaust note?


Thank you.

[SubGothius]

These guys have a lot of interesting performance-oriented stuff lately, some for Lancias (mostly Scorpions):
http://www.allisonsautomotive.com/products.html

A lot of their 124/131 stuff may well fit a Beta engine as well. No Beta headers listed, but they could prolly fab one up easily enough since they do headers for 124s and Scorpions, and their quality looks impressive from pics. Regardless of where you get it or who fabs it, make sure the header you get has a flexible section to accommodate engine movement, as a rigid header would wind up breaking its own welds and/or stripping your manifold studs.

For exhaust, Jim Keller here has extolled the virtues of a simple "bullet" style of glasspack (replacing the stock transverse muffler) to cut volume, combined with a nice Ansa-style resonator at the end to smooth and mellow out the note, and this maintains enough backpressure for streetable torque as well. Myself, my Zagato came with an old Faza "sport" muffler (cylindrical style, about 8"x24" size) in that center transverse position and a chrome tip with some diffuser perforations on the inside, but IMO it sometimes sounds a bit too "putt-putt" tractor-y for my preference, would prefer more of a proper resonator tuned for the Lampredi twincam, so a resonator spec'd for a 124/2000 spider should be adaptable to that interest.

[davidb]

And the two FAMOUS caveats w/Beta headers. #1.) construct
some nature of heat shield for the steering rack boots!!!!!!!!!!
#2.) Regularly check the header outlet to ctr. section inlet
for tightness. W/a header you lose all the engine flex absorp-
tion a stock exhaust has. Plus GOOD motor mounts are a MUST
w/a header. BTDT on all counts. Then there's the matter of
your O2 sensor w/a header. Where? I'll shut up now . . .

[bb4re]

Midwest-Bayless has an excellent condition used header in stock. It is currently still attached to the running engine that we have for sale. Can be heard on the following link. The header itself will sell for $299.99. It is in great condition!

http://www.midwest-bayless.com/storefrontprofiles/deluxeSFshop.aspx?sid=1&sfid=208227&c=192742

[SubGothius]

Regularly check the header outlet to ctr. section inlet for tightness. W/a header you lose all the engine flex absorption a stock exhaust has. Plus GOOD motor mounts are a MUST w/a header.
That's why I mentioned making sure you get a header either constructed with or modified to include a flexible section. I've got an old Ansa-style 4-2-1 header I snagged for a song on eBay several years ago, but I'd definitely want to have it modified before installing, prolly replacing most of the 2-pipe section with flexible sections, and possibly splitting it into a 2-piece unit for easier installation unless I have a shop install it from below while up on the rack.

Then there's the matter of your O2 sensor w/a header.
You know, I hadn't even considered that this is an FI car that should have come with a 4-2-1 manifold stock from the factory anyway, so there's really little advantage to getting a custom header done, and FWIW hot cams are pointless as well unless he's ditching the FI setup and moving to a dual Weber setup. Really, the only way to usefully improve power in an FI engine is to do a rebuild with higher-compression pistons; anything else is a waste of money and perfectly good tuning components that could be used to actual effect with a carbureted engine upgraded to dual Webers.

[1,6 HF]

.... Then there's the matter of
your O2 sensor w/a header. Where?. . .

It's not tough to weld a bung into one of the header pipes to take an )2 sensor.

But the issue of controlling engine movement / header flex is an important one.

[Radical Racing]

Thanks for all the input.

I'll crawl under the car this weekend to see what configuration of exhaust manifold is on the car now. I just assumed it was some sort of cheap cast iron piece and that performance could be improved with a header.

By the way, I bought this car from Paul Tullius, long time ALC member and classic Lancia broker. He bought the car from ex-ALC president Dick Buckingham. Paul says the car was originally a Euro spec Beta. I remember when I first saw it at Paul's house it had the retangular headlights which were replaced with the dual headlight system from a Beta parts car Paul had. It also has two separate metal/chrome plated license plate lights at the rear, not the one piece black plastic piece you see on US Zagatos and I think Beta coupes.

I like the idea of the glas pac and the Anza tip.

FYI, Paul's got a 1981 red Zagato he is selling for $450. It is all there but very dirty after sitting outside for a couple of years. I don't see any obvious rust but didn't look that closely.

[Radical Racing]

Another question since we are talking about improving Beta performance. My friend Mark Rawlings says he improved the performance of his 1981 Zagato (now sold) by changing to a 1.8 litre head and having the cams re-profiled by Elgin Cams. Just curious if any one had a comment about this? Are there any other issues that crop up because of this head swap?

I have 5 or 6 1.8 heads in my parts stash and lot of cams/cam boxes.

[1,6 HF]

The 1.8 head is the quick way to raise the compression (as opposed to swapping the pistons). My understanding is that it's pretty straightforward, But "pretty straightforward" can be a relative term when you're discussing Lancias. But you can ask Paul; I imagine he'd know.

[SubGothius]

I'll crawl under the car this weekend to see what configuration of exhaust manifold is on the car now. I just assumed it was some sort of cheap cast iron piece and that performance could be improved with a header.
It will be cast-iron, but you'll notice it's a 4-2-1 configuration with dual downpipes that really can't be improved much with a bent-tubular header. One thing many have done is take the 4-2 part of the manifold and the next, short 2-2 section (where the O2 sensor screws in) which connects that to the downpipes, to a good welder to have those two pieces welded together for reliability. Apparently making the manifold a 2-piece like that was done for ease of casting and possibly to substitute different 2-2 sections with or without an O2 bung, but the bolts holding them together can fail, the gasket can leak exhaust, so it's best to have them welded. The castings aren't pure iron, just very close to it, so an expert welder should be able to get a continuous bead over the seam.


I remember when I first saw it at Paul's house it had the retangular headlights which were replaced with the dual headlight system from a Beta parts car Paul had.
If he still has those rectangular lamps or they came with the car, those will prolly be superior to any H1/H4 quad conversion you might buy to replace the sealed-beams, and you'll have one of the few if not only one in the States with the "proper" Euro lamps. If you'd rather not use them for whatever reason, I'm sure someone on here or eBay would be glad to take those Euro lamp units off your hands. B)


Another question since we are talking about improving Beta performance. My friend Mark Rawlings says he improved the performance of his 1981 Zagato (now sold) by changing to a 1.8 litre head and having the cams re-profiled by Elgin Cams. Just curious if any one had a comment about this? Are there any other issues that crop up because of this head swap?
It's good for a modest compression boost, by about half a point or so, enough to notice and be worthwhile, but gains nowhere near as significant as rebuilding the block with overbored cylinders and HC pistons, albeit much cheaper. Bayless had long insisted hot cams are pointless with FI, as the FI system measures the air intake and exhaust O2 and compensates accordingly trying to maintain a "factory set" intake charge, so it will actually be fighting against any engine-breathing mods you might make. That's why compression boosting to get more out of the intake charges you have is really the only effective and worthwhile mod if you're keeping the FI setup, which I'd recommend if you want to keep your car streetable, as the degree of tuning you'd need to do with dual Webers in order to exceed the power of an FI setup would also tend to make the engine peaky, needing to maintain high revs and better suited for dedicated racing rather than street or mixed street/track use.

[1,6 HF]

...If he still has those rectangular lamps or they came with the car, those will prolly be superior to any H1/H4 quad conversion you might buy to replace the sealed-beams, and you'll have one of the few if not only one in the States with the "proper" Euro lamps. If you'd rather not use them for whatever reason, I'm sure someone on here or eBay would be glad to take those Euro lamp units off your hands. ...

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. In period, no rectangular lights were anywhere near as good as high-quality 5.75 H4/H1 quads--not even close. The rectangular lights are interesting for originality's sake, but only that.

[SubGothius]

[An 1800 head] is good for a modest compression boost, by about half a point or so, enough to notice and be worthwhile, but gains nowhere near as significant as rebuilding the block with overbored cylinders and HC pistons, albeit much cheaper. ...compression boosting to get more out of the intake charges you have is really the only effective and worthwhile mod if you're keeping the FI setup.
Quoting myself there to followup:

I just realized since yours is apparently a Euro-spec car, it should already have an 8.9:1 CR as stock, so mounting an 1800 head would put you up around ~9.4:1 or better, which seems plenty high enough for practicality (heck, I'd be thrilled with "just" 8.9!), so rebuilding for an overbore and marginally even-higher CR pistons seems like more expense and tradeoff downsides (e.g. finding fuel with high-enough octane) than worthwhile. Unless you were gonna do a full rebuild anyway, in which case and cost-no-object I'd prefer to keep the 2000 head (see below) and do the CR boost with pistons alone.

Since you've got spare 1800 heads to refurb and mount at your leisure, you might look into top-end tuning tweaks like port-matching and polishing, racing-grade valve springs, that sort of thing. Midwest-124 knows and does all the Guy Croft techniques (http://www.midwest124.com/Cylinder_Head.htm), so you might just ship a core to them to have the work done. I gather the 2000 head does breathe better than the 1800, but that really only comes into significant play at high RPMs, and the increased power should offset that enough for an overall net gain anyway.

Finally, you will preferably want to retain Lancia camboxes, as they have repositioned oil drains better-suited for the leaned-back position of the engine in Lancia applications. IIRC, Will Holding insisted the FIAT boxes work fine and that the Lancia drain difference isn't significant enough to matter, which may be some reassurance if FIAT boxes are all you have to work with, but otherwise I'd say why sacrifice anything you don't have to, even if it is just engineering overkill to begin with?