Beta struts - yep, again

[sickchilly]

OK guys, new here, not to I-cars. Recently got a sub-40k original mile '78 Beta Coupe and put it back on the road. After driving it for a week, the only major things it needs is struts. The existing ones are practically empty.

Now I know I'm lucky enough to have the rebuildable insert type early struts. So I went to a motorcycle shop and picked up some slightly more "sporty" oil with the intent of refilling them and seeing how long that oil lasts. Well, after getting the rears off the car, I'm having a seriously hard time getting that top nut thing off to expose the cartridge. (Not the very top nut that holes the spring on, the collar nut around the shaft.)

I know there's a special tool, of course I don't have it and haven't gone looking yet for a suitable tool. Any tricks? I've got some PBlaster on there now and have been hitting it with a large blunt drift. No joy...

So then I was looking at the overall condition of the struts and I'm sure they've been dry for some time. The car sat for 6-8 years prior to my rescuing. Luckily it was garaged, it's cosmetically near perfect save for the usual rock chips and such. But there is a bit of scoring on the shafts and I'm sure the seals are near shot. So I've been poking around for new struts or inserts.

It seems that Koni inserts are fairly available for the Sedan. Gee that doesn't help me, does it? IAP can get struts in who knows how much time for $133 a corner. YIKES! Vick's can get Coupe Koni's for nearly $170!!! Double-yikes!

What are my options here. I would love to have this thing back on the road like, yesterday! Any cheaper overseas routes? Anyone know of any place in the states that has new ones stashed? I've called Bruce's and Caribou too. Haven't tried Obert yet, but he's bound to be as or more expensive than IAP if he has them. I'd even take used Konis if they're good. It seems used OEM-types are too risky, so I'd love to find something new and just be done with it. I love driving this thing. The Spider has been my daily driver until the Beta got back on the road. Now they'll due alternate duty.

[Pope1]

It's been a very long time (about 20 years) since I saw one of those struts - can't quite remember what that retaining nut is like. Is it a cap with two notches that screws into the end of the tube? Whatever it is I had to get a local machine shop to free up mine.

BTW, what shocks does IAP supply and can you provide some contact details about Vicks please?

I've heard that KYB shocks are a resonable alternative to Konis but I haven't tried them (yet). Have to get a set of the old-style struts like yours first.

[sickchilly]

The retaining nut is this collar with 4 notches around the inside perimeter. It's definitely on there. Gave it a good soaking with PBlaster and banged the snot out of it for a while. Hasn't budged as far as I can tell!

I don't know what brand the IAP bits are. Supposedly "OEM" types. You can view pictures in their web store:
http://international-auto.com

I'm going to call them on Monday to ask what brand they are and if the 10/25/04 expected date is accurate.

Item numbers 46272 (front) and 18517 (rear):
http://www.international-auto.com/index.cfm?fa=p&cid=46&pid=2589

Vick's = Vick Autosports. Info and web store on their web site:
http://www.vickauto.com

I personally favor Vick's for my Spider parts. Great prices and speedy reliable service.

At this point, I don't give a hoot what kind of struts I put on there just as long as their worth the price, new and available! I'd gladly try the KYB's if someone can tell me where to get them.

[Hamish]

You do need a key for the lock at the top of the strut :x so if you don't have the kit to do it - take them somewhere to get freed off :idea:
Those Koni prices aren't too bad - by UK standards anyway :wink:

There is no easy way with the OE 'keyed' insert. Interestingly, many aftermarket insert kits have a threaded nut to replace the key which makes much more sense.

OEM types should be 'Way Assuato' but stocks are drying up and generally the original inserts are damned elusive.

International Auto did have stocks of the KYB inserts, they are very good and much longer lasting than Sachs. Monroe units are also good, think I've got a set of new rear inserts in my loft for a coupe but the fronts are tricky to find.
There may be an alternate type of strut unit coming 'our way' by the middle of '05 but I'm told they will be about £160 a corner...... but guaranteed to last in all types of use. We'll see.

Try the links pages - I'm sure I put another USA based links in there 8)

[Zagato78]

Trent. Don't buy used Konis. If you find them, most likely they will require rebuilding. $150 per strut, that price is a direct quote from Koni. And.. that is presupposing they have the seals for the anymore.

I have found NOS stock units and various inserts. Call IAP, or Chris. Don't count Bayless out. Art still comes up with some interesting stuff once in a while.

Either way you are in for an expense. Also, email me privately. The guy who is building my rally suspension is in Seattle. He may have an idea what insert could be fitted.

Dan

[sickchilly]

Called IAP. The brand they carry are the Sachs/Boge hydraulic assemblies. They have one rear in stock and expected date for more is December!

I've got my feelers out to other places in the US and some of Europe...

Art from Bayless and Olaf from Linea Rossa just crack me up. Their standard response for anything they don't have in stock is NLA! They don't even bother looking into ordering or sourcing anything. See ya guys...

We'll see what the rest of the search turns up. Meanwhile waiting for Snap-on to deliver the proper tool to hopefully rebuild mine. Sun's out, I'll be driving the Spider...

[Hamish]

Do not be tempted by the Sachs units - fine if you gently bimble around, I'm sure you'll get thousands of miles out of them - but they do not last under regular use, especially the fronts.
Much better to go for KYB - or Koni

[sickchilly]

Hamish, any ideas on where to source the KYB inserts? I've heard 2nd hand from some one who has them and they're supposedly "da bomb". Better value than Koni's and nearly as good, especially for a driver.

I've heard similar opinions on the Sachs. My car is a driver and I expect them to last a least a while with the way I drive (I drive 'em like I stole 'em, but with the utmost gearbox finesse! 8)).

[_JL_]

Rebuilding for my Koni's cost about 300€. That was for front and rear.

[Pope1]

Trent,

Have not been able to find a supplier of KYB inserts in the US yet (don't think IAP stock them any more) but these folks in the UK do:

www.autospares-group.com

They responded very quickly to my enquiries some months ago, the prices were reasonable (but then so was the exchange rate at that time) and the only reason that I didn't buy any was that they only do inserts and my car has the later all-in-one strut.

Anyone in the UK or the US with decent early struts at a reasonable price, please drop me a line.

Chris

[Hamish]

Chris,
No promises, but I believe I may be able to help you out with a set of insert accepting struts for a coupe/spyder.
I'm off on a course for work to sunny Dorset for a week, then back to shiftwork :roll: but will be able to have a good check in three places local-ish to me in my days off (so we're into early November) and see if I can put together a set. Can't guarantee the inserts will be prefect, but I guess that's not the point :?:
You'll need new inserts ofcourse :wink: but that shouldn't be a problem.

[Pope1]

Thanks Hamish. May be paying the UK a visit in mid-November (not sure of dates yet) so perhaps we can sort out all the bits and pieces then and I'll stuff a second suitcase full of goodies for the return trip!

Chris

[Hamish]

You'd better come up and have a few beers/drams then :!: What's a couple of hundred miles after a few thousand :?:


Thanks Hamish. May be paying the UK a visit in mid-November (not sure of dates yet) so perhaps we can sort out all the bits and pieces then and I'll stuff a second suitcase full of goodies for the return trip!

Chris

[Pope1]

You'd be surprised how many of my old friends share that theory. Sometimes I have to keep my visits secret if I'm only coming for a week as someone is bound to be upset.

[Pope1]

Just discovered a source for KYB in the USA. They're unlikely to stock Lancia parts but they might be able to order them. The relevant KYB part numbers for the Beta coupe' are:

363040
365040

Cannot remember now which is front and which is rear. These are supposed to be replacements for Lancia part numbers:

Front : o.e 82341684, 82327791, 82315777, 823446272
Rear : o.e 82326804, 82318517, 82341688, 82386804, 82346274

The company is called Option Imports. http://www.optionimports.com/kybshocks.html

Chris

[stvdino]

Hello,
I don't know if your still looking for struts or not. I happened to find rebuilt struts (newly rebuilt from factory) on ebay Germany. I bought two rear struts and installed them. They are a little stiff but do perform fine. They are the brand Stark and came packaged in a box from the factory. I'm sure this company still exists and you should be able to still order them. These were the complete struts and not inserts. Total cost for two rear struts and shipping to USA California I think was around 150 US. A very good source for Zagato or Beta (same) struts. I believe they make front ones as well. Hope this helps.
Steve

[Maigret]

I have spoken to our local suspension experts and they say they can make my sealed units into replaceable units. They slice the top off and TIG weld a threaded piece on the top. This allows it to take a suitable insert.

[Hamish]

What sort of cost :?:

I asked in Aberdeen when Mario was still with me, but the costs were (inserts included - thank God :!: ) £200 a corner......

I guess if a suitable insert can be found - i.e: one other than a standard Lancia unit - something more 'mainstream' then it'd be the ideal solution :?: :idea:

[Maigret]

Ok. I got a quote for overhauling the front struts.

$250 + GST each. (Approx. £85 )

Job entails slicing off top of tube. TIG welding a threaded ring to top allowing a conventional cap to retain the insert. KYB inserts fitted.