Gear oil again

[Pope1]

It's the old discussion about what's the best oil to use for the gearbox and the VX supercharger. I've read a lot of conflicting stuff on the Internet lately and was wondering what you guys have to say. Specifically, does anyone have experience of using Redline MTL in their Lancia and what do people use for the VX blower when they can't get the recommended Tutela oil? How do you make sure that you haven't got an EP gearbox oil, as product labelling like "multi-purpose" is not very helpful ?

[chrisc]

http://www.lancisti.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1086

[Pope1]

Thanks Chris. Is the Tutela stuff available in the UK?

[Hamish]

Tutela ZC90 is - or should be available from any/all Fiat/Alfa or Lancia dealer. It can certainly be obtained in the UK.

[cthargiss]

I have been using Redline MTL in street Beta transmissions for about 20 years. Excellent results. 2nd gear synchro lasts much longer. Shifts require less effort. I used MT-90 in my racing 'crash boxes' with similar results. At this point I wouldn't use anything but Redline.
Craig

[Pope1]

When changing to Redline what should be used to flush the existing oil out of the gearbox or is that not necessary? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I don't know much about gearboxes.

[cthargiss]

I never use any flush. Just make sure that you pull both plugs, and allow it to drain thoroughly. Redline is compatable with any mineral base oil that might be left.
Craig

[Pope1]

Thanks Craig. I'll see about importing some from the US, as nobody sells it here as far as I know.

Anyone know of a source of Tutela in the US? May as well examine that possibility too.

Chris

[sickchilly]

Personally, I've never heard of the stuff. So a US source is doubtful, but possible since I don't know everything!

I'm also a big fan of Redline MT-90 for FIAT/Lancia trannies. Love the stuff. It's always so smooth from below freezing right on up to 100+ F.

[cthargiss]

Chris-- For Redline, try www.racerpartswholesale.com . Good prices, great service.
Craig

[Pope1]

Thanks for that link Craig, they are cheaper than the other site that I was looking at as a potential supplier. Is it the Redline 75W90 that I need? Is that the same as the MT90?

Final question - I'm really not sure what kind of oil is there at the moment but I suspect that it is Esso multi-pupose GX 80W-90. It says it is an extreme pressure gear oil for manual trannies that is rated API GL-5 whatever all that means. Is it really OK just to drain it and pour in the Redline afterwards?

Again sorry for the repeated dumb questions but I'm out of my depth on this one.

Chris

[cthargiss]

Chris, I would NOT recommend MT90 for synchro gearboxes, as it is often too 'slippery' for good synchro opperation in older boxes. I use MTL, as it is recommended for GL-1 applications. Allow the tranny to drain for a couple hours, PUT THE PLUGS BACK IN , and fill with Redline MTL.
Craig

[DJ]

Just a counterpoint to all the talk about the synthetic Redline lubricant in the gearbox.

I first replaced the old oil in my Scorp with Redline and it was a vast improvement over the old stuff, which was horrible. HOWEVER, the tranny still had some issues with gear clash, especially when downshifting into first. I also had some problems (slight) with oil leakage with the synthetic Redline.

I then set off to find some GL-1. This took a while so in the mean time, I put in straight old SAE 40 motor oil as recommended in the owner's manual. The result was fantastic and everything worked exceedingly well.

When I finally found some GL-1 I changed it again but was not pleased. It was better than the Redline but not nearly as good as the SAE 40.

Bottom line - when the Scorpion goes back on the road, it'll have SAE 40 motor oil in it. Same thing for the Zagato, which should be really soon now.

[Pope1]

For Redline, try www.racerpartswholesale.com . Good prices, great service.

Unfortunately won't take international credit cards though. Getting well and truly fed up with this policy - I thought the world was supposed to be getting "smaller". In some ways it's getting more and more difficult to perform small business transactions internationally with every passing day. Sorry, just venting, I'll get over it!

[Pope1]

Redline MTL now installed in place of the brown sludge that came out of the gearbox and Tutela ZC90 in the supercharger. After one drive only, everything seems smooth and quiet and the gear changes seem a bit better.

[Pope1]

I also had some problems (slight) with oil leakage with the synthetic Redline.


Looks like I may be suffering from the same problem judging by the state of the garage floor.

[SubGothius]

I also had some problems (slight) with oil leakage with the synthetic Redline.
Looks like I may be suffering from the same problem judging by the state of the garage floor.Depending on whether you think the leak is bad enough, and easy enough, to repair (can get pretty expensive to keep topping off that Redline MTL/MT-90!), you might consider just going to straight "mineral 90" oil (pure 90-wt. basestock without engine-oil additives of questionable suitability in a gear oil), available in bulk from your local petroleum distributor (prolly won't find it retail, so sidestep the middlemen and go direct ;) ). Since stable longevity is a prime selling point for a synthetic lube like Redline, it isn't really worth paying that much extra for, and that often, if it keeps leaking out! I found out about both the Redline MTL/MT-90 and the straight mineral 90 from this archived mailing list thread (http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1806/GEARBOX.HTML#Oils).

Even if topping-off with mineral 90, you'd still want to do gear-oil changes at the usual interval (~30km/20k mi./18 mos.) to remove wear by-products. Speaking of which, I discovered during my latest gear-oil change that one of the transaxle drain plugs (the larger plug of the two, can't remember which) is identical to the engine-oil drain plug, and either the factory or (more likely) a PO had installed a magnetic plug in there. That thing was utterly encrusted with glittery-grey goop, including quite a few discretely-identifiable shavings and tiny metal chips (the largest maybe only a half-mm). 8O Suffice to say, I was darn glad that they'd put that mag-plug in there, and that I'd just bought a similar plug to install in my engine-oil sump!

Word to the wise: get a spare magnetic oilpan plug and install it in your tranny (if it doesn't have one already)!

[Pope1]

Thanks for the tips Tye.

I'm going to remove the sub-frame for some preventative maintenance in the next few days so I'll assess the oil leak situation at the same time. As I have to import everything on an individual basis, I bought a whole box of MTL as the shipping works out better that way. Hence, my first priority is to prevent leakage if possible rather than switch to anything else if possible.

[Wallace]

There's a magnet bolted into the gearbox already - it's on the inside of the diff casing . . and yep, you do get some stuff stuck to it !

It's even more fun if you chew a bearing up - the oil comes out looking like silver paint !

[andybeta]

there's nothing stopping you sticking some magnets near to the sump drain plug anyway to catch metal debris. if your sump is already on, on the outside would do and if you've got your sump off on the inside so all the metal that passes by will stick to it. often wondered why some engines sound like a bag of nails. could be a bit dodgy if a piston ring floats by and sticks to your magnet along with a chunk of a big end, might just be the beginnings of a blockage.

check out a chap chris-longhurst on the web who has an interesting take on oil grades, viscosities, changes, longevity and protecting engines. sorry no URL, just type in 'car oil comparison' or his name and 'oil' into google and you'll see his site.

andy

[SubGothius]

there's nothing stopping you sticking some magnets near to the sump drain plug anyway to catch metal debris. if your sump is already on, on the outside would do and if you've got your sump off on the inside so all the metal that passes by will stick to it.I prefer the drain-plug approach, so I know that any/all accumulated ferrous-metal debris attracted by the magnet will come out with every oil change. You don't even have to buy a special mag-plug; you can just get some small, strong magnets (nickel-coated neodymium are preferable) at a hardware or DIY electronics shop (e.g. Radio Shack) and epoxy one of those to a stock drain plug.

Another good idea: stick strong magnets to the outside of your oil-filter can and your power-steering fluid reservoir -- you can just scavenge some free, strong magnets from old speakers or hard-drive armatures for this application.
check out a chap chris-longhurst on the web who has an interesting take on oil grades, viscosities, changes, longevity and protecting engines. sorry no URL, just type in 'car oil comparison' or his name and 'oil' into google and you'll see his site.
Here's the Chris Longhurst site (http://chris-longhurst.com).

Now, if ye really wanna get deep into the finer points of oil/lube, filtration and suchlike, check out BobIsTheOilGuy.com (http://BobIsTheOilGuy.com/) -- especially the BitOG discussion forums (http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi) in particular ("oil porn" as one poster there called it :lol: ).

Since we're getting a bit off-topic for this subject header, I've just started a dedicated Lancisti discussion thread for engine oil/filters (click here) (http://www.lancisti.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1289).

[Pope1]

Think I've found the source of my gearbox oil leak. Details can be found in this new topic:

http://www.lancisti.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6690#6690