HPE electrics

[Andrew S]

Hi all,
My HPE is ignition dead! Turn the key- no ignition lights... no starter... nothing. Interior light works...
It did this the other day but after a few turns of the key the dashboard lights came on so I'm suspecting a bad connection somewhere. Anyone wanna point me to any obvious known problem areas for this?

Thanks
Andrew.

[len_newstrum]

Hi all,
My HPE is ignition dead! Turn the key- no ignition lights... no starter... nothing. Interior light works...
It did this the other day but after a few turns of the key the dashboard lights came on so I'm suspecting a bad connection somewhere. Anyone wanna point me to any obvious known problem areas for this?

Thanks
Andrew.High resistance between the battery terminals and the battery cables is a common cause. Low current draw things--like interior lights--work, but not high drain things like starter or headlights: too much voltage drop. Remove both cables--ground first!-- then clean the terminals with sandpaper until the mating surfaces are bright. Better yet, get one of those special gadgets that have steel bristles on them for a couple of bucks at your local auto supply. A terminal puller is another good investment for a couple of dollars more.

Oh yes. Before you bother, does the interior light dim when you turn on the headlights or try the starter? That is another good indicator of corroded battery terminals.

[Andrew S]

Most problems in life, I find, usually have logical solutions... except Italian auto-electrics! Not being an auto-electrician I can't make much sense of this so let's see if any of you guys can...

The wires to the black block connector are as follows: red, black, blue/black, brown, green/black. Both brown and black are live. The wires from the connector to the ignition switch are as follows: red, blue/black, brown, black. The first thing that's obvious is five wires have become four... the black wire, which is live, connects to nothing! There is no wire in the block connector on the switch side to connnect to it. The next obvious thing is that the green/black wire has changed to black... I'm sure the Lancia technicians had a reason for doing that but... Anyway, all the wiring looks original.

When I put my multimeter, set to continuity, onto the connections on the switch side without it connected to the other side I find that it appears to work as it should: On turning the key the brown wire connects to the black wire (to connect the ignition) and also to the blue/black wire (to give power to the wipers/lights etc). Turning the key to the starter position means the brown wire also connects to the red wire, which would activate the starter. So all appears well with the switch. But connected up all is dead. The 12 volts that I saw when I put the meter onto the brown wire does not appear at the other wires when the block connector is connected up- and the brown wire itself instantly reads no volts, and doesn't connect to the other wires when the key is turned, despite those wires proving ok in the continuity test.

If I put a jumper wire from the brown wire to the blue/black ignition wire I get nothing- no ignition lights, whether the connector block is joined or not. Despite the fact that the brown wire reads 12 volts when not connected.

Now, back to the live black wire that goes nowhere. If I put a jumper wire from the black to the blue/black ignition wire I get ignition lights. Connect the block together and then I get full operation of everything. Turning the key operates the starter too. What is the black wire for if it is not connected to anything? Bear in mind it appears to carry enough current to power the ignition and all it's extras- starter motor, lights, wipers, heater fan etc etc. I know because I switched them all on at the same time. The battery connections are fine and the alternator is functioning correctly- battery is being charged.

Any of this make any sense?
Is it safe to run the car using power from the black wire?
Where do the black wire and brown wire originate from- can I trace them to their source or are they likely to be pink and yellow at the other end...?

As the switch and switch wiring appears to function correctly when continuity tested I'm very confused with this. As soon as the block connector is joined the brown wire's 12 volts becomes zero, and those 12 volts won't power the ignition when connected with a jumper wire without the block connected; so if the problem is a short circuited switch it doesn't explain that. Nor does it explain correct functioning on the continuity test of the switch. Or does it...? If any of you electrically minded folks want to tell me how daft I am because it's totally obvious what is happening then please chip in- I don't mind if I look like a numpty... it's all a learning process!

Andrew.

[len_newstrum]

Andrew,

Try swapping the third relay from the right with some other relay. Relays are notorious.

Len

(That is right side looking from the passenger seat. Left side looking at it from the engine compartment!)

Edit No. 2: Cancel the above. I found a UK HPE wiring diagram. It appears that the relay setup is different from the US Coupes. Nevertheless, I think that you have a relay problem similar to what I've had. Try swapping relays around. Both the brown and black wires going to the ignition switch should be hot. One comes ultimately from the battery and the other from the generator. One of the relays feeds the black wire and it sounds like it isn't working. Make sure that you are swapping the same kind of relays, they pin out the same, but work differently internally. Good luck.

[gman]

Hey andrew, i had a very similar problem, i swoped al relays, i checked almost al earth wires, batry terminals. I even changed the whole ignition module.but nothing helped. By accident the brown wire touched the black wire and the components worked(at that time i thought black was earth/ground) so i couldnt understand it. But i was pressed for time. So i connected the brown and black wire together. Ive been driving like that for a year.. No problems.. I checked milli amperes being drawn and it was 0.03 so it seems rite. Hope something i said helps.?

[lanciatomcat]

Andrew
How strange. I am having exactly the same problem with a certain S2 Coupe Monte!!
Have the gremlins come down from the Lake District to haunt??
I am going through all the checks suggested here.
All is basic but it is Lancia wiring.

Season greetings
Tom

[DJ]

Standard response: It's (almost) always a ground. :)

[1,6 HF]

Standard response: It's (almost) always a ground. :)

+1, particularly if it checks out on a multimeter, but not when connected.