'78 Beta Light Switch/Turn Signal/Wiper Control Assembly

[len_newstrum]

I'm chasing down an electrical problem: my instrument panel lights and parking lights stopped working. My first thought was that the light switch module was bad. That has happened before and I put in one from my parts car, which has 300,000 miles on it, so it probably won't last too much longer. The good news is that I had a brand new one my shelf (so to speak, my parts supply is actually under my house).

In order to verify that the old unit was actually broken, I decided to plug the new one in and see if it fixed the problem. Lo and behold, the electrical connectors were completely different, but they seemed otherwise practically identical.

After doing a functional check I discovered that the new unit was essentially the same, but with one new function added. When the light switch is in the high-beam position it can be rotated and it will go into a low-beam mode. Why you would want to do that is beyond me. The color-coding of some of the wires was also different and the point where the windshield wiper power hooks into the contact blocks changed.

My next thought was to splice my old connectors onto it, but decided to check out the other side of the interface first. Its a good thing that I did as the problem appears to be an open circuit between fuse #1 and the light switch connector and the old switch is working fine. I should be able to sort it out tomorrow.

Now to my question: What the heck does this thing fit?? I can't imagine that the Zagato is any different than the coupe. HPE? There are no part numbers on it, or on the box. It does have "Vitaloni No. 21449 and SAE OB 87" molded into the plastic, while the old one says "Vitaloni No. 8959 and SAE OB 74". Neither of those looks like a Lancia part number.

I don't want to butcher it to fit my car when I don't really need to--and am not absolutely sure that it would work, anyway. Somebody, somewhere, sometime might be faced with junking their car because these switch assemblies are scarce as hen's teeth and not very durable to start with!

Does anybody know what it fits? If nobody can identify it I'll go ahead and modify it, check it out in the car, and keep it as a spare. If it doesn't work right, I'll make it available; along with original connectors and instructions on how to put it back to its original configuration.

Damn, these cars are a challenge.

Len

[SubGothius]

When the light switch is in the high-beam position it can be rotated and it will go into a low-beam mode. Why you would want to do that is beyond me.

You mean while the stalk is in high-beam position, twisting the knob to turn the lights off will move the stalk up into low-beam position? That's how it operates on my '79. This prevents the high-beams from being left on when you twist the knob to shut off the lights; the mechanism that does this was broken on mine, so the stalk kept drooping into high-beam position, occasionally killing my battery until I rebuilt the stalk cluster.

[Jim Keller]

Yea, it sounds like you have a 79 thru 82 switch maybe because that as previously mentioned, is how those work, do the platic knob ends have a fine coin like edge, not much larger than the stalk as the 79 thru 82 or are they larger knob like with finger knurls in them? 75 to 78

[len_newstrum]

You mean while the stalk is in high-beam position, twisting the knob to turn the lights off will move the stalk up into low-beam position? That's how it operates on my '79. This prevents the high-beams from being left on when you twist the knob to shut off the lights; the mechanism that does this was broken on mine, so the stalk kept drooping into high-beam position, occasionally killing my battery until I rebuilt the stalk cluster.Nope. My '78s move the stalk up like yours does. This one switches the lights to low beam (I think), but doesn't move the stalk up.
Yea, it sounds like you have a 79 thru 82 switch maybe because that as previously mentioned, is how those work, do the platic knob ends have a fine coin like edge, not much larger than the stalk as the 79 thru 82 or are they larger knob like with finger knurls in them? 75 to 78.They are smooth, with no coin-like edges or even the rounded sculpturing that the '78s have. The are considerably smaller knobs, too. The knobs are about 2/3 the '78 length and slimmer. The shape is weird: looking at them end-on, they are a tall triangle with the top flattened off. From the side they look the same. Sort of like one of those flat-topped South American pyramids, but taller and skinnier. The 75/78s had lettering on them, but these are just plain. They are actually quite pretty; somewhat delicate looking.

I spent half of the day chasing down the electrical problem with no real results except that I'm pretty sure that there is an open somewhere between the light switch connector and fuses 1 and 2 (they are ganged together). The ignition switch and light switch checked out OK. First thing tomorrow I'll try to find connectors 48 and 60. I sure hope the problem isn't in that relay/fuse box: it is a rats nest inside.

The "LHD BETA COUPE WIRING DIAGRAM" that I downloaded from the files section has been a godsend. (Although I had to photoshop it a bit because there are a few places where it is illegible--rather like a fax of a fax of a fax, if you know what I mean.) I've never seen a wiring diagram done that way, but once you get the hang of it it's really great. Did one of Lancisti members make it? The wiring diagram in the Haynes Manual sucks. It is revealing to compare the basic Italian car wiring diagram with the North American diagram from about three feet away. It demonstrates how the US design requirements destined Lancia to failure here. Combine the complexity required to scab things on to meet our requirements with a complete lack of good documentation and you have a situation where no mechanic in his right mind would want to try to fix one. Hmm. That does say something about us, doesn't it. Lancia Masochisti?

[davidb]

Len: Jim's correct [as always] re: the '75 - '78, then '78 up
differences. IIRC each work/function the same. WAYYYYYY
back in my memory I recall having seen those traingle end
stalk knobs. How they operate I don't know. I think, think
they were like a generic Lancia-Fiat, Fiat-Lancia substitute
from yrs. back. All that said I hope you get it sorted out ...

[Jim Keller]

Hum.......X1/9 or Scorpion maybe?

[SubGothius]

Hum.......X1/9 or Scorpion maybe?
Hm, I think those both had sorta flat, paddle-shaped plastic stalks, without any knob to turn on the end, as with many FIATs of the era; later X's had ones similar to late Betas. I'm gonna hazard a guess that maybe it came from an Alfa, Autobianchi or some other Italian make that happened to use the same switchgear supplier but spec'd a different stalk design on their column units than any FIAT or Lancia ever had. Pics might help?

[DJ]

A picture would really help.

[Johan Nelspruit]

Hi
Please send me your e-mail address & I will mail you a good set of photos

Regards

[Jim Keller]

Johan, you can upload them right here in this thread, use the "manage attachments" button below the box you type your message in and upload the photo's

[len_newstrum]

Thanks, Jim, for the advice on how to post pictures. I tried earlier, using the way that you do it with MSWord or Office and it didn't work. I just didn't see the "Additional Options" block. Duh!

Notice that the stock light switch has a six-pin male connector and a three-pin male connector, while the new "Mystery Switch" has a six-pin male connector and a four-pin female connector. The knobs are different, too. The wire colors differ somewhat, too.

I've not had a chance to pursue the problem over the last three weeks (I had to replace my roof: in Seattle you don't want a leaky roof in November. Then I had to replace the heads on my '88 Plymouth Voyager and the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve on my '88 Toyota Coupe. It hasn't been a good month.)

To make matters worse, in the midst of trouble-shooting the Beta problem essentially all of the electrical system went dead. It turned out to be a bad relay: not just any old relay, but the one that supplies power to most of the other relays. Putting relays in series has got to be a stupid design.

I hope to get back to the Beta problem in a few days. I've put together a break-out test box using connectors from my parts car so that I don't have to probe the connectors anymore. That means that I won't have to rewire the mystery switch.

Len

First two pix are the stock 78 Beta switch assembly. The last three are the mystery switch.

[Jim Keller]

Yuor welcome!

But I don't know what that one goes to off hand. Maybe post a note on Mirafiori.com with a link to this thread asking for help. That being a Fiat web site, I bet someone there would know, possibly Matt Brannon, Jon Logan or Pete Angle, they are pretty sharp when it comes to Fiats and IDing stuff

[SubGothius]

Yeah, that "mystery switch" sure is weird-lookin', never seen anything like it before. I just got a hunch that maybe it could be an early sedan unit, if those differed from the style used with a coupe-style dash... and just now found an interior pic from Brian Long's book that confirms this. You've got an early sedan stalk cluster there. Neato! :D

[len_newstrum]

Yeah, that "mystery switch" sure is weird-lookin', never seen anything like it before. I just got a hunch that maybe it could be an early sedan unit, if those differed from the style used with a coupe-style dash... and just now found an interior pic from Brian Long's book that confirms this. You've got an early sedan stalk cluster there. Neato! :DThanks, SG, that is a good lead. Could you scan that photo and post it (or send it to me by PM, if there is a potential copyright problem)?

If there is a rare old Lancia sedan that can be kept alive, that is where it should go!

[SubGothius]

I did just find this pic (note you can go one size larger if you really want to zoom in):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/3041464763/sizes/l/