B24 Brake Overhaul

[Zane]

I am in the beginning phases of overhauling the brakes on my Aurelia as it has sat long enough that time has required it to be safe. I have ordered new rubber brake hoses, new components to rebuild the individual brake cylinders, master cylinder and brake fluid reservoir from Mike at Lancia Spares. I will have the brake pads re-shoed locally and will know shortly what is needed to be done with the drums themselves once they are removed. My hope is that I do not need to have them turned.

Two of the four wheels (one in the back, one in the front) spin freely while the other two are VERY hard to turn. I have adjusted the pads from the back of each drum as much as possible by turning the 2 nuts that have the "cup" under it and those wheels are still very hard to turn. I don't think I will have an issue pulling the drums from the wheels that spin freely, but I'm concerned with how best to pull the drums from those wheels that are tight. Is there another way to relax the brakes from the drum other than the adjustment I made with the nuts on the back of the drum that have the small cup under it to allow an easier pull of the drum?

I know on the drums I must remove the center nut and pin, but after that, what is the most common method of pulling the drums that are tight?

Attached is a picture of both the front drum and the rear drum assembly with the Potjoint now removed.

Thank you for any insight that can be provided.

Zane

[Zane]

Nothing comes quickly when working on an Aurelia. You spend more time educating yourself on the proper methods and procedures needed for the job as well as sourcing the correct parts then you do turning an actual wrench. Over the past several months I have completely taken the front and rear braking system down. Almost all of the brake cylinders had seized. I think only 1 out of 6 cylinders where not, so tackling the brakes first was a wise choice. As you can imagine, with a car that has sat for over 30 years, the brakes where a mess.

After cleaning all of the parts it was obvious that new parts where needed to be ordered to properly complete the rebuild of the brakes. I ordered new rubber brake lines and cup seals for the individual brake cylinders, master cylinder and reservoir plunger from a Mike at Lancia Spares. I also received a used front brake drum from Mike to replace one that had been improperly re-rung with a steal sleeve (more to come on that).

As it is with most projects when you dig into the job you continue to find more things that need attention. I found that all of the front hub seals had gone bad and wheel bearing grease had slung into the drums so I have replaced those as well. When digging into the rear brakes I found that the rear hubs also are leaking badly and have the seals to rebuild them, but have yet to dig into that job. I also found that the rear differential output seals had also gone bad and had been leaking gear lube into the rear brake drums. Those seals should be arriving today. Having to replace most all of these seals require building my own tools to properly do the job as you cant just go to your local store and find what you need. Needless to say, I hope that once I replace all of these seals I will have a much better braking system in place than I did 6 months ago..:)

While working on the front end, I found that someone, at some point and time replaced the silentblocs with hard plastic inserts... not good... I have rebuilt the front tie rod assemblies and replaced all of the track rod silentblocs with correct bushings. The car I'm sure would have been all over the road and should now track straight.

Attached are some pictures of the progress.

Zane

[Geoff]

Have you already sent your brakes out? There have been difficulties with the sleeving on Aurelia brakes - I ended up sending my Appia ones out to a shop in LA who had done work for Tony Nicosia there. They did a nice job.

Glad you are going after the seals. They do need to be working! You are on your way!

Geoff

[Zane]

Have you already sent your brakes out? There have been difficulties with the sleeving on Aurelia brakes - I ended up sending my Appia ones out to a shop in LA who had done work for Tony Nicosia there. They did a nice job.

Glad you are going after the seals. They do need to be working! You are on your way!

Geoff

Geoff,

After I pulled the individual brake cylinders and inspected them I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of pitting found. I checked each cylinder bore and they all fall within the appropriate specs. I only had to do a quick pass of very light honing to clean them up a bit. I didn't want to sleeve them if they didn't need it, so we will see how this works out.

Over the weekend, I wrapped up the front brakes as well as rebuilt the brake reservoir. I'm now moving toward the rear end. Any advice on replacing the rear seal and the best way to tackle the nut found in the attached picture? I am not able to find a torque setting in Pauls shop manual for that nut. I plan to build a jig to fit the nut, but have you used a modern c-spanner with any luck?

Zane

[Geoff]

Zane -

I don't know the answer to this. I'd call one of the mech'l savvy members of the club - Steve Peterson, Walt Spak, Bob Williams, Tony....

Building up these relationships is part of the overall network you may wish to include.

Geoff

[RdeMasi]

Zane,

If there is any appreciable amount of torque on that nut a C-spanner will not work very well. Since Lancia's are rife with those sort of nuts one gets creative in finding a way around.

If you check the EddinsMoto site you will see a craftsman's solution to the problem as he's equipped with a lathe and the talent to use it.

For us less well-talented and well-equipped you could take an appropriately sized nut socket and cut away the portions to leave the teeth which would fit into the slotted segments. I've done this for one of these type of nuts on a Fulvia. I would use a minimum 3/4 socket because if there is a good amount torgue you will need the heft. I snapped a 1/2 wrench try to get a larger ring nut off the rear of a B12. It was finally persuaded to give up with an pneumatic wrench.

Oh and make sure you know which way is OFF because they will use reverse or counter clockwise threads as well.

I looked at a handmade/folklore sort of workshop manual I bought from Australia for the Aurelia and could not find the data you were looking for so Geoff's suggestion of hooking up with the aformentioned gentlemen is the right one.

Ralph

[Zane]

Geoff and Ralph, thank you for your replies. I have had the pleasure of communicating with Steve Peterson several times during this journey and appreciate the many individuals within the Lancia community and the willingness to provide guidance.

I was able to remove the castellated nut with no issues at all. I did take Ralph's recombination and transformed a socket into a nice spanner socket. I was happy to learn that the rear diff output seals are pressed into back side of the nut. This made pulling the old seal out and replacing a snap!

While I'm pulling things apart I figured I would remove the rear drum backing plates. I noticed some light surface rust in a few spots so I decided to clean, strip and prime them to prevent future rusting. Final coat of paint coming soon. I have no plans to pull the transmission out of the car, so I will be spending some time cleaning the old dirt, oil and general grime off while I have good access to it all. I will then start putting the rear brakes all back together.

[RdeMasi]

Zane,

Good to hear your getting it done. I'm including a few photos of when I had pulled the rear suspension and transaxle to clean and paint as well as clean and paint the underbody.


Ralph

[Geoff]

Ralph -
did you finish your rear brakes already?

[RdeMasi]

Geoff,

Yes, sometime ago. As I had everything out, I cleaned and painted the tin, much like Zane, had the brake cylinders sleeved, new seals and remounted everything. Of course as I was bleeding the brake lines, when everything was back in the car, some fluid came down and removed some of the paint on the tins so I need to get under there and repaint.

The plunger at the top of the brake reservoir will stay up for a few days but will eventually sink so I need to trace the cause of that but the brakes are good. Eventually I will have the front shoes relined as I received linings from Omicron sometime ago but are still sitting on the shelf.

Notice the abundant use of "eventually", that word is most important in keeping one's sanity when dealing with old cars. It gives you the sense that you're actually moving forward.

I'm hoping to post photos of some of the medieval tools I fabricated to remove various parts on the Aurelia. Just waiting on graphic design daughter to assist with re-sizing the photos.

Ralph

[Zane]

The winter months have been long in the Midwest and spring is obviously on its way. With warmer weather ahead, I'm able to get back in the garage again to work on the Aurelia. After tearing the rear brakes down last Fall, I have spent the winter worried that pitting within the cylinder wall on the drivers side is too deep to be fixed with honing. I looked at it once again this week and have determined that having both of them sleeved is going to be my best bet for a long term fix. Can anyone recommend a company who has had experience with re-sleeving rear Aurelia brake cylinders?


Zane

[RdeMasi]

Zane,

I've used Apple Hydraulics for master and wheel cyclinders on both a Fulvia and an Aurelia B12. They do good clean work for reasonable prices. They specialize in British gear but they had no problem with what I sent them. They're located in Long Island, NY

Let me know if you have a problem finding their site or number: I should still have it.

[Mike C]

Hi I am busy With a B10s which is in about the same state as your B12? Interested to see or hear how you are progressing however fast or slow its going. mine is slow but happening. Mike

[RdeMasi]

I am currently sorting out the body. The motor starts and runs well, the gears work well, the brakes are a bit wooden but that maybe the old linings. I have removed every last bit of paint and am working out the minor dents. The major replacement of rusty body panels has all been done some time ago. So it's currently down to hammering, filing, sanding and filling. I should get some photos up.

How are you doing and what has you currently occupied?

[Geoff]

Ralph and Mike -
Just touching base here from the midwest. The cars have been kind of quiet - the B24 has been causing a few issues (minor, but nagging) - last one was overheating dramatically - which made no sense as the radiator was changed to a new core last year. The original one finally just had too many leaks, and after being repaired so many times... well, you can't tell its been changed. So we changed the thermostat, and it seems find. Voltage regulator packed up, rocker arm set screw broke in the middle of winter, but otherwise runs well. Changed from Nardi setup to single carb in November to try for ease as opposed to performance - and must say I really like the change. Living in the city, it is much less stress for the first 30 miles. Haven't been out for long drives, and will miss the "sports car" it was, but its a new experience to revel in all that refinement now. The flywheel was trimmed (I think from 19 to 15#) and that really helps make the gear shifts that much smoother - things just line up now, snick snick.

Been very busy working writing on the De Virgilio archive, and hope to finish that by the end of the year.

This past week, had the car out and managed to run out of gas in the middle of the worst part of an expressway, with no shoulder lane. Not the wisest.
Local mechanic friend said it was a wake-up call, and to listen. He told me of running out in a Fiat 600, at night on a dark road with his wife.... and without blinkers, or any real lights, it was really something. A message for us all. Visit to the auto parts store for some hazard gear, and keep the car topped up.

Hope Ralph's B12 gets out - where is the B10s located? Serial number? Pics? B10s' are rare birds.

Geoff

[Mike C]

Hi Ralph & Geoff This is a quick reply I Have a B24 Spider and a B10S . To see the spider log on to flickr and find an ivory one. Search Lancia aurelia . Posted by Basic Transport on about page 30. Also Search aureliab10 photostream Use B24 Gearbox B24 oil pump b24 brakes for some photos.

[Zane]

Well my rear brake cylinders should arrive today for my B24. Had them re-sleeved by Sierra Specialty Automotive out in California. Once they arrive I will shot some photos to share.

Over the next few weeks I hope to get the brakes all buttoned up. Front end is completed, just need to focus on the rear end. Any advise on the best approach to filling and bleeding the system. Currently the system is completely dry other than me skimming the cylinder walls with silicon brake fluid to keep the seals in good order. Rebuilt the master clutch cylinder so it is empty as well.

Best,

Zane

[Zane]

For your viewing pleasure, I have added a few snap shots of the re-sleeved cylinders i recieved on Friday. VERY nice work done by Sierra Specialty Automotive who was recommended to me by a fellow Lancia Club Member.

[Mike C]

Hi Zane those wheel cylinders are definitely viewing pleasure.. seems you guys have access to really high quality repair facilities there.. Mike

[Mike C]

Are you able to use the original pistons now?

[Zane]

Are you able to use the original pistons now?

Mike,

Yes I am able to use the original pistons and cup seals. The Cylinder walls had to be bored out to allow the ID of the new sleeve to be within factory specs.

I started to put everything back together last night. completed the rebuild of the cylinders with new cup seals, cleaned & polished the grim off the pistons and springs, as well as new rubber dust caps. Installed the backing plates and torqued to spec. I was running out of steam and only got to sliding the brakes in place. Tonight I plan to button things up with getting the retainer springs and drums back on and adjusted. I will then be able to start flushing the system full of fresh silicone brake fluid in the coming days. I'm still researching the best way to fill the empty system correctly. I can not find (not that it's not there) tips on this procedure in my very well put together Aurelia manual author by Paul Mayo.

[Mike C]

There should be no problem bleeding the hydaulics .You have the added advantage of the pump in the reservoir to help you. a helper to either pump or close the bleed nipples to stop air reversing into the system will make it easier. Just start at the back then front do the exercise at least twice. Should work.

[Parisien]

Thanks guys, this thread be useful am sure when the time comes, might just bring it back to life if the needs arises!

P