Ignition Switch or Starter?

[JULIAN_BLK348]

My car has aways started up and ran fine everytime except.... yesterday when I went for a drive in 100 degree weather with the Viper guys and everytime we stopped for a short break, I would have to crank it 4-5 times. All power came on but I just didn't hear anything kicking in. Once the engine cranks, then it would start up just fine. It was almost like no power to the starter or the starter didn't kick in...
_ Is the switch going bad where, when hot, it would not send power to the starter?
_ Is the starter going bad?

I'm no mechanic so was hoping you guys can point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

[davidb]

Simplistic suggestions. Check your battery output, no greater
draw than your starter. Of course battery connects too. Ign-
tion switch check. Starter wiring tightness/corrosion check.
Not spending your $$$$ but NEW starters, Vicks, V. cheap.
If it comes down to that a Scorp starter is a breeze to replace
compared to a Beta/Beta starter. Best "O" luck.

[Darren]

To add to DavidB = check your engine earth strap, make sure you've got good earth. If you've not already done so, I'd fit a relay to take power out of the ignition switch - they're well known for burning out.

Good luck!

[pabeaver]

The starter brushes could be wearing down. It would act like the key switch is not working. Brushes are cheap <$10.00.

[JULIAN_BLK348]

Can you guys tell me roughly where the engine earth strap is? The other thing is, if a relay was to be added for the ignition switch, is it anymore trouble just to add a cool "engine start" button :)

[Darren]

Can you guys tell me roughly where the engine earth strap is? The other thing is, if a relay was to be added for the ignition switch, is it anymore trouble just to add a cool "engine start" button :)

Earth strap on a monte runs from the rear engine mount to the diff. It should be in good condition with clean contact.

Starter button is an easy mod if you're leaving your ignition in place, so you can use the key in the normal way when you don't have company.

The relay goes in the engine bay, close to the starter - I'll see if I can dig out a wiring diagram if you like?

[Geoff T]

Much easier and quicker to add the relay at the ignition switch end. That way you don't have to run wires all the way from the engine bay to the battery in the front. I added a relay to the ignition switch and cured a problem I had when the engine wouldn't crank after sitting for a few days. That was after rebuilding the starter and solenoid for no gain of course! Voltage drop from battery, via ignition switch, to starter solenoid is quite large. All you need is a new wire to run from the relay switched terminal to the positive battery terminal. Other switched terminal of the relay connects to starter soleniod wire, which you cut at the ignition switch plug at base of steering column. (Heavy gauge red wire). Other end of solenoid wire (switch end) goes to relay trigger terminal, and a new wire from other side of relay to an earth point. Makes a huge difference to start power. Ignition switch contacts are very small and will burn out in time. My relay is bolted up under the dash. Power source for switch is still fused via upstream side of ignition circuit. You can't have too many relays in Italian electrics! Well worth fitting relays to the headlights too. Stops light switch burnout / melting, and the lights are brighter too when running on the full 12 volts!

Geoff T
S2 Montecarlo

[Darren]

I'd disagree with you there Geoff - you don't need to run wires through the car - everythings where you need it at the engine end and no need to cut any cables! Power from either directly off the starter motor battery feed, or the main power feed on the alternator. You can use the main red wire to the starter (from the ignition switch) and direct it straight into the relay and simply make up one new lead to run from your relay to the starter solenoid - easy and all leads are kept short, except the existing one that runs through the car anyway! Oh and if you use a relay with a mount, you can use one of the many existing tabs to mount it too!

[DJ]

I agree with Darren. Very simple to install in the engine compartment and there are several good mounting lugs already there for it.

And Bosch makes a prewired kit (PN: Bosch WR1) which makes it even simpler. You can find it at lots of places online. Rock Auto sells it for $19.00 and J.C. Whitney has it for about $24.99 I believe.

This is what I used initially. When I built the fuse and relay box for the Megasquirt system I included it in the new relay box design.

[JULIAN_BLK348]

DJ & Darren,

Thanks for the sound advise and I would love to have the wiring diagram of what you described with wire colors etc. As long as there's a wiring diagram, I can pretty much wire up anything :)

[DJ]

The starter relay wiring is simple. You can discern the proper wiring from my Megasquirt diagram below.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/939/medium/MS_Wiring_Diagram_Rev_3_JPEG.jpg (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8412)

[JULIAN_BLK348]

DJ, perfect - thank you very much :cheers: