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Timo04
30th May 2009, 03:11 PM
Hello everyone,

I have some oil pan leaks that I am trying to rid on my Scorpion. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.


Background:

Please find attached some pics of my oil pan leaks! I just installed this newly reconditioned oil pan late last week and when I drove the car for it's first "long" trip after the job, about 20 miles on the free way the night before last, it came home looking this way! Before this little drive no oil was hitting the ground, but there was some weeping, like the screw driver is pointing out in on of the photos. These leaks didn't surface until about four days after I installed the "new" pan. After the installation; twice I checked for tightness on the pan bolts and they were quite loose the first time. A little less loose the second time...I don't want to over torque them for sure. A rubber type of pan gasket, about 1/8" thick, was used with no sealer. I purchased the pan gasket from Bayless and used it right out of the box with a light application of oil on both surfaces. I prefer not using a gasket sealer because some always seems to overflow into the sump when the pan is tightened. If I have to I will of course use a gasket sealer to stop this mess.

What are some good, readily available gasket sealers? Oh and when I was refinishing the pan I checked that all the interface surfaces were square and they seemed OK. The pan sure does look nice but is leaks like a sieve, I should have just left well enough alone as there were zero leaks before I started this job!!!

This coming week I am going to drop the pan again and install a new gasket. Should I go with an all cork gasket this time around? There seems to be some kind of cork/fiber combination gasket available as well. I have used all cork gaskets on brand-X cars in the past with great success. I understand that FIAT went to a rubber type of gasket later in the production run of the 124...not sure what was originally used on the Scorpion. Any way where can I get a good pan gasket for the Scorpion?

This job seems so very basic and I have done this more than a few times before, but here I am with some leaks on my first go around with a Scorpion.

All tips & advice are very welcome.

BTW: I had the oil pan that I replaced this one with the shown in the photos here up for sale on e-Bay but I de-listed it at the advice of a mechanic friend, when these leaks cropped up. Hopefully I will have a spare pan to sell before long.

All the best,

davidb
31st May 2009, 07:25 AM
D.J. went thru this not too long ago Tim. You might hunt the
forum for his posts. Luck on the fix!

Will
31st May 2009, 01:25 PM
Tim;

My advice would be to remove and clean, degrease- then apply with either Hylomar or permatex spray-a-gasket used as a dressing.

Make sure all the oval shaped belleville type washers are installed correct (concave) side up, if you get them backwards you'll get a kink in the lip similar to what your pictures show and nothing will seal right. Their purpose is to act like springs and keep the oil pan clamped securely.


The other thing to look out for (after a rebuild, mostly) is the seal carrier can get positioned too low and keep the pan from mating up correctly- ideally you should take a straightedge or the blade of a machinist's square off of the block to locate the seal carrier before tightening it up.

I think it's safe to say that many if not all of us have had weepy oil pan gaskets at one time or another, so don't beat yourself up over it, just try it again and no oil first, in fact degrease the block and pan with acetone.

Timo04
31st May 2009, 05:56 PM
Thanks guys for the tips!

John O
31st May 2009, 10:40 PM
Hey Tim,

Can't remember what I used, but I think it was a Permatex product compatible with oil as Will is suggesting.

I will warn against using any RTV on or around the oil pan or any oil related items. See picks HERE (http://picasaweb.google.com/roadbox128/ScorpOilPumpPan) where the previous owner's RTV job on the oil pan caused all sorts of unhandiness.

John O.

Will
1st June 2009, 06:02 AM
Hey Tim,

Can't remember what I used, but I think it was a Permatex product compatible with oil as Will is suggesting.

I will warn against using any RTV on or around the oil pan or any oil related items. See picks HERE (http://picasaweb.google.com/roadbox128/ScorpOilPumpPan) where the previous owner's RTV job on the oil pan caused all sorts of unhandiness.

John O.

Holy smokes, how many tubes of RTV did he use??!! :scratch:

At least you got it off, John- if he had bothered to degrease both surfaces you might have ended up destroying the pan by the time it came off- I had one on a truck that I went through a half dozen putty knives beating them with a hammer before I could unstick the pan. A lot of people bemoan the pump-clogging quality of RTV but it should not be forgotten it can be a brutally effective and unintended adhesive!

Timo04
1st June 2009, 10:25 PM
Hey Tim,

Can't remember what I used, but I think it was a Permatex product compatible with oil as Will is suggesting.

I will warn against using any RTV on or around the oil pan or any oil related items. See picks HERE (http://picasaweb.google.com/roadbox128/ScorpOilPumpPan) where the previous owner's RTV job on the oil pan caused all sorts of unhandiness.

John O.

Hi John,

Thanks for the tips!

That must have been a real chore getting all that RTV cleaned up!!!

Will's absolutely correct about the adhesive qualities of RTV:

When I worked as a technician at NASA Ames, some 10 years ago, they were using a rust red colored RTV for bonding ceramic heat shield tiles/models to aluminum test panels. RTV was one of the main stay adhesives used in quite a few labs there at the time. I can remember it being real messy to work with before it cures, but after it cured overnight...wow what a SUPER nice bond!

Timo04
14th June 2009, 06:01 PM
Up date:

The oil leaks have been all repaired and "knock on wood" the engine is bone dry on it's exterior, even after several extended road test. As it turns out the oil pan/gasket were not the main issues. Leaky valve covers and cam towers were the biggest culprits. I imagine as many of us Montecarlo/Scorpion owners know; leaks up on top of the engine spill oil over the side that is canted towards the rear end. When this happens it is not easy to determine exactly where the leaks are.

The Solutions:

1) Re-torqued the oil pan (1/4 drive w/ a tiny ratchet, careful not to over tighten)

2) Re-surfaced the valve covers*, installed new gaskets.

3) Carefully re-torqued the cam towers.

4) Made sure the crank case vent/fire trap were clear.


* I had two pair of Scorpion valve covers and both were slightly warped.

HTH