Oil Cooler Install

[Darren]

Hi All,

Managed to get back in the workshop again and make progress. I'va taken the car off the road again after the Bristol Car Show, where I had a couple of problems with an oil leak. I have now got all of the bits I need (well almost! ;o) ) and will combine this with a few other 'projects'.

1. Oil cooler install
2. Fit Vx gearbox
3. Fit Megasquirt

The gearbox is already built and ready to go in once the engine is out. I've got everything ready - or rather as far as I can for now - on the FI side of things for now, but I needed to get the oil filter bracket lightened and altered to accept the Monte Hospital alternator bracket. I think it's the last really mucky job left to do, so this afternoon I made a start.

Here's the bracket with the small nub removed and ready for some serious angle grinder work!

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/946/thumbs/P170509_16_28_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8417)

First cuts to shave off unnecessary weight and for the new bracketry. I just took a deep breath and got on with it. A bit nervous to start with, but then got into the swing of it.

most of the meat now removed - need to tidy it up and paint.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/946/thumbs/P170509_18_53.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8420)

And compared to the original bracket

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/946/thumbs/P170509_18_55.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8425)

More to follow maybe later in the week once I've had a chance to finish off. The FI thread is located in the EFI forum for anyone that wants to have a look. I'm going a slightly different route and using bike throttle bodies rather than the Lancia Plenum. Fingers crossed it should be reassonably straight forward!

[prorallycodriver]

I used a factory oil filter/lower alternator bracket from a non-AC Fiat/Lancia that was aluminum and compact. Where are you mounting the oil cooler?

[Darren]

I used a factory oil filter/lower alternator bracket from a non-AC Fiat/Lancia that was aluminum and compact. Where are you mounting the oil cooler?

Not seen that one, although I heard about it - isn't it a Beta unit? Have you got any pics?

As far as cooler location - I was going to go with off the crossmember on the right hand side of the car, but a friend of mine who mounted his there didn't see any benefit, so I was thinking about about over the rear deck on the same side. At the front, ahead of the rad is not an option due to length of pipe run, but other than that, I'm open to suggestions. I want to use ducting no matter what location, to help with air flow, unless conventional wisdom is against.

Cheers

[lanciatomcat]

Darren
Be interested to see how you resolve this 'location of oil cooler' as I will have the same thing to resolve on my 'Project'.
Regards
Tom

[prorallycodriver]

Don't have any pics of the non-AC oil filter housing and bracket but definitely worth finding one before mounting the cast iron back on your block.

Here is a where my oil cooler is.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3215/1121/8035560023_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3215/1121/8035560264_large.jpg
This is a very old pic and some of the other items (coil) have been moved since but oil cooler is still in the location the stock fuel tank was. Lousy spot for getting any cool air but better than nothing. Maybe will mount a small electrical fan to it someday. Mounted behind it onto the bulkhead is a heat reflective sheet to prevent radiant heat on the bulkhead itself.

Also have an in-line oil thermostat sorta visible right above the carbs.

[Darren]

Darren
Be interested to see how you resolve this 'location of oil cooler' as I will have the same thing to resolve on my 'Project'.
Regards
Tom

Will do Tom - rest assured there will be pics - and probably an article for the mag! ;o)

[Darren]

Don't have any pics of the non-AC oil filter housing and bracket but definitely worth finding one before mounting the cast iron back on your block.

- Thanks for that, and will see if I can locate one, but I do want to be back on the road again asap.



Here is a where my oil cooler is.


This is a very old pic and some of the other items (coil) have been moved since but oil cooler is still in the location the stock fuel tank was. Lousy spot for getting any cool air but better than nothing. Maybe will mount a small electrical fan to it someday. Mounted behind it onto the bulkhead is a heat reflective sheet to prevent radiant heat on the bulkhead itself.

Also have an in-line oil thermostat sorta visible right above the carbs.
- Ah, that's not an option for me as the fuel tank is still in the original position. I'm still not 100% convinced on which area is better - mounted off the cross member, with directed air from ducting or on the rear deck on the other side of the engine with ducting. Either place suffers with lack of airflow, just a question of which location suffers least! I'm using a take off plate, with an oilstat and remote filter. Hopefully I should get those bits in the post this week.

[1,6 HF]

... Lousy spot for getting any cool air but better than nothing. Maybe will mount a small electrical fan to it someday. Mounted behind it onto the bulkhead is a heat reflective sheet to prevent radiant heat on the bulkhead itself.

Also have an in-line oil thermostat sorta visible right above the carbs.

Speaking of a lousy spot for getting any cool air, what trumpets are you running on those DCOEs? and how are you getting air to them?

[Will]

Using the 2-part Beta assembly and ditching the AC compressor part , you can fully skeletonize the bracket down to three pounds and a few ounces. Pics below.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/540/medium/Picture_003.jpg (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=930)

url=http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=931]http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/540/medium/Picture_004.jpg[/url]

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/540/medium/Picture_005.jpg (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=932)

[John O]

Hopefully I should get those bits in the post this week.

Darren,

I'm really interested to see what you come up with. I have lot and lots of oil-cooler parts set aside, I haven't installed it yet - shoot, the car hasn't even come back from the bodyshop yet!

Anyway, best thing I could figure was somewhere low near the crossmember by the fuel tank, with a set of 3 3"square computer fans (very low current draw) on a thermal switch. Now that I have a set of side scoops made up for the sail panels, it's also possible to duct air to the cooler (depending on how ghetto-tastic the scoops look on the car).

John O.

[Darren]

Using the 2-part Beta assembly and ditching the AC compressor part , you can fully skeletonize the bracket down to three pounds and a few ounces. Pics below.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/540/medium/Picture_003.jpg (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=930)

url=http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=931]http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/540/medium/Picture_004.jpg[/url]

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/540/medium/Picture_005.jpg (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=932)

Now that is seriously stripped down! I can't see how it ties in with the Beta filter mount as I don't know what it looks like. Does that put the alternator in the original place? I'm lowering mine out of the way of the throttle bodies. Will, do you have a pic of the filter mount?

[Darren]

Darren,

I'm really interested to see what you come up with. I have lot and lots of oil-cooler parts set aside, I haven't installed it yet - shoot, the car hasn't even come back from the bodyshop yet!

Anyway, best thing I could figure was somewhere low near the crossmember by the fuel tank, with a set of 3 3"square computer fans (very low current draw) on a thermal switch. Now that I have a set of side scoops made up for the sail panels, it's also possible to duct air to the cooler (depending on how ghetto-tastic the scoops look on the car).

John O.

Hey John,

Adding fans is an idea - I was thinking something like this - http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p7545/3%22-DIAMETER-IN-LINE-BLOWER-FAN/product_info.html

I prefer a location down on or near to the cross member rather than the rear deck - apart from the aesthetics, I can't help thinking that mounting it over a hot exhaust is not the most sensible thing to do! :D I will keep you posted though!

Cheers

[prorallycodriver]

Speaking of a lousy spot for getting any cool air, what trumpets are you running on those DCOEs? and how are you getting air to them?

Short stubby ones. The originals that came w/ the carbs were too long. The transmission linkage passes between the filter socks (not installed in pic) for one carb. No room for a filter box setup without modifying to a cable shifter.

No different than many of the downdrafts without a bulky box setup and better than many of the Scorpions running stock or DMTR carb with simple aftermarket aircleaners. Really, there is no good method w/o install 037-style side scoops and ducting which I've done in other Scorpions I've had.

I get more cool air thru the center tunnel than stock Scorpions w/o being cluttered with AC hoses and garbage in it in combination of an airdam up front to feed it. And better than plenty of the front mounted engine without ducting away from the radiator.

It'd be difficult to mount an oil cooler on the crossmember anywhere near the airflow from the center tunnel due to the shift linkage.

[Darren]

Short stubby ones. The originals that came w/ the carbs were too long. The transmission linkage passes between the filter socks (not installed in pic) for one carb. No room for a filter box setup without modifying to a cable shifter.

Have you considered this? Allows you to fit an airbox on sidedraft carbs or longer trumpets with having to convert to cable shifting

http://montehospital.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27_22&products_id=540


No different than many of the downdrafts without a bulky box setup and better than many of the Scorpions running stock or DMTR carb with simple aftermarket aircleaners. Really, there is no good method w/o install 037-style side scoops and ducting which I've done in other Scorpions I've had.

I get more cool air thru the center tunnel than stock Scorpions w/o being cluttered with AC hoses and garbage in it in combination of an airdam up front to feed it. And better than plenty of the front mounted engine without ducting away from the radiator.

It'd be difficult to mount an oil cooler on the crossmember anywhere near the airflow from the center tunnel due to the shift linkage.

The 037 scoop idea is fine I think if you have solid buttresses, but no so on a Monte. I was going to maybe go with Ken Haven's idea of using the exit vents or at least one of them, but I'm not sure what it will impact on and it will mean cutting out a hole at that point. Does anyone know what purpose the vents have?

[prorallycodriver]

Have you considered this? Allows you to fit an airbox on sidedraft carbs or longer trumpets with having to convert to cable shifting

http://montehospital.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27_22&products_id=540

Doubtful it was available when I swapped in the DCOEs in 1991. I've since sold that entire setup to someone who wanted them more badly than I did. He was roadracing his, I was sitting in gridlock traffic and stoplights galore in mine. Have since been running a simple DMTR. But the DCOE arrangement as pictured worked perfectly fine for years I had them.

[HF Stinger]

Do a search on ebay for 'SPAL' fan. They are an OEM quality fan which comes in a vast array of sizes and push/pull arrangements.

On ebay you may find some take-offs from the ATV market which sometimes upgrade to bigger units.

You can go to their website for detailed specs on their products as well.

http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.aspx

[Darren]

Old thread updated - pipework is now in and fitted, apart from where it attaches to the coverplate. I'll do this once the engine is refitted so I can get the right lengths.

I went with Mocal bits - a remote filter housing, oilstat, temp gauge sender, and take off plate, using 1/2 BSP screw fittings all round and aeroquip pipe.

After looking at mounting points, I decided to go with mounting the cooler on the rear deck and running the pipes down the right hand side, round and behind the strut. I need to finish off the mounting for the cooler, and fit the cowling and airpipe once the engine is back in place.

I'll see how it performs before making a decision as to whether to fit additonal fans.

Pics below and update to follow - thanks for looking, comments welcome

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/951/medium/DSC01100.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=9069)

A new use for the braker servo mount!

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01164.JPG

Remote filter, oilstat and oil temp sender plumbed in

[HF Stinger]

Great thread Darren.

Here is the thing about me - I NEVER throw out a Lancia or Scorpion related picture. Some in my collection go back to the beginning of my collecting days in the mid 90's.

Here is one which may help, I believe that Will gets credit for this mod. I will be doing it shortly myself.

This is probably a good one for the file vault here on Lancisti too.

[Darren]

Thanks Sean - one question though - how do you mount the alternator? I'll be mounting mine low to clear the throttle bodies.

Cheers

[HF Stinger]

This is part of the 2-piece design, the Beta uses this aluminum block in conjunction with the iron mount which is already shown above (lightened). The aluminum piece is sandwiched between the iron mount and the engine block.

[Darren]

Ah, I see - that would then work for a conventionally placed alternator, but I'm not sure it would work with what I've done. Interesting to know for future works though, thanks!:D

[prorallycodriver]

I used the aluminum mount in Will/Sean's pic and lengthened the top bracket a wee bit to be able to mount the 45 DCOEs. Think if your throttle bodies are any wider than the carbs, you'll have bigger problems with clearance w/ starter motor which I had to grind a wee bit off of. Your results may vary. Mine is on a 1800 block so a 2000 block is a wee bit taller so you'll have a little more space.

[Darren]

Fingers crossed the starter motor won't be a problem. I'll know in a short space of time! ;o)

[Scott H]

Sean

I was thinking about making the oil block out of steel and then welding on brackets for the alternator mount and whatever else. Looking at the Miller's Mule oil block is what I was thinking as a starting point.

Scott

http://www.millersmule.com/Fiat_Parts_files/mini-801%20-%20Oil%20Block.JPG


Great thread Darren.

Here is the thing about me - I NEVER throw out a Lancia or Scorpion related picture. Some in my collection go back to the beginning of my collecting days in the mid 90's.

Here is one which may help, I believe that Will gets credit for this mod. I will be doing it shortly myself.

This is probably a good one for the file vault here on Lancisti too.

[HF Stinger]

Good call Scott, now that you posted that pic I remember seeing that on Millers' site too.