My Squirt Install

[Darren]

Ok, I thought I'd start this thread now before I got too far along and then had to try and play catch up. I think I'm going to have to put this into a couple of posts to be able to get the pics in.

The background for those that don't know - I was planning on a Vx install with maybe the addition of FI rather than carbs. I got a Vx engine and box with a car thrown in but decided to sell the blower after I found out the engine was siezed. The ultimate plan for my car is an Alfa V6 24v install with an M90 eaton charger (I have the blower already), which I plan on getting round to maybe next year. That will also have megasquirt on it, and I'm hoping by that time I'll be a bit more experienced with it and shouldn't have any probs with that install.

The engine the squirt will be attached to is the one that's in the car at the mo - HC pistons, lightened and balanced flywheel, standard cams and valves, bit of head work, EDIS rather than dizzy and a Vz gearbox.

I did find a Vx head in my parts stash, which has had the inlet ports matched to the inlet manifold. I'm not sure whether to use that one with the standard cams I have (don't think they're Vx ones) or the one I have - open to suggestions. I have a pair of vernier pulleys from Miller's mule ready to fit, along with their trigger wheel and bracketry.

I got the bag of bits from DIYAutoTune and am going to use the relay box, with the main box mounted in the car, a WB sensor in the exhaust and a air/fuel ratio meter. While the engine and box are out, I'm also going to fit an oil cooler.

Onto the pics - firstly the main box - not quite finished in the pic but ready to be fitted now - further pic to follow
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P280808_17_57.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7502)

The relay board
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P280808_17_57_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7503)

The Throttle bodies as delivered after winning them on Ebay.
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P310808_11_12.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7504)

And the loom stripped out ready to be incorporated into the new loom
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P310808_11_44_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7509)

Thanks for looking - more to follow

[DJ]

Looking good, Darren!

[Darren]

I had been waiting a while for the manifold to be fabricated and I finally got hold of it at the end of last week. Here it is temporarily mounted to the Vx head.
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P040509_17_28_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8358)

It has been matched to the gasket on one side and to the reverse of the throttlebody on the other.
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P040509_17_29.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8359)

The throttle bodies are from an early Suzuki GSXr 750, where the units can be separated set up for a 'straight shot' to the valve. As it happens, 1 and 2 stay together and 3 and 4 stay together, with the gap coming between 2 and 3.
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P040509_18_06_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8369)

I'm still deciding at the moment what to do about fuel rails. As you can see from the pic - the original can be retained
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P040509_18_23.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8372)
This would mean retaining the original injector mounts (a good thing I think) and would only require an extended line to run in between 2 and 3. But, I'm not sure if the rest is ideal as there only seems to be one inlet, which I'm sure works fine on a bike - but I need to think about how it would work on the car - ie where to put the regulator.

Option 2 would be to have a fuel rail fabricated with new mounts to support the injectors and hold them in place. This option is easier to set up the rest of the system, but possibly more problematical mounting.

You can see the first of the trumpets I'm going to try. Not sure about airbox as yet - may fab up something with the trumpets in place - or remove them and just run with socks. I'm going to make up a back plate in any event and mount the air temp sensor to it.

Well, that's all for now - there's plenty left to do before I even get round to taking the engine out and swapping the gearbox. The other job I need to get done is to modify the oil filter mounting to accept the lower position alternator.

Thanks for looking and look forward to your comments/suggestions

Cheers

[John Allen]

suuweeeet! I like what you've done, very similar to what I plan on doing with some Honda TBs. Save the time and just extend the stock rail. Didn't the TBs come with a fuel regulator? mine did, along with the TPS.... One inlet will be fine, the smaller turned 'outlet' is what you connect to the regulator, Nissan made a nice Bosch style with hose barbs (and can be mounted remotely).

BTW, ditch the relay box. Wiring in a couple relays and fuses is WAY better than building the double DB37 cable AND the screw down binding posts are kinda ghetto... The relay box on my car (yes, I have one on mine) is the only part of the MS system that has let me down. I had a small trace corrode under one of the relays and the main relay wouldn't switch. I really can't stress how much of a bitch it is to solder all of those wires inside the DB37 connector.......If you mount the ECU inside (say near the glove box) most of the relays/fuses can reside there and a few less wires have to actually be routed back to the engine.

Great work, keep it up!

[DJ]

So, Darren. Does this mean that when you're done it will be a Montezuki? Or perhaps a Suzucarlo? At least it will be well suited for running out to pick up some sushi... :rolleyes:

I bet it will be really sweet when you're done. Just take your time and do it right. You'll be glad you did.

[DJ]

BTW, ditch the relay box. Wiring in a couple relays and fuses is WAY better than building the double DB37 cable AND the screw down binding posts are kinda ghetto...

That would be my advice, too. I had a relay box from DIY, as well, and decided to go with the new fuse/relay combo box instead. Glad I did.

[HF Stinger]

Man, those sure fit nice. Darren, Im envious after all these years of wanting to build an engine with dual carbs Im seeing all these nice manifolds and EFI swaps I may change directions before all is said and done.

Are those suzuki bits plentiful?

[Darren]

suuweeeet! I like what you've done, very similar to what I plan on doing with some Honda TBs. Save the time and just extend the stock rail. Didn't the TBs come with a fuel regulator? mine did, along with the TPS.... One inlet will be fine, the smaller turned 'outlet' is what you connect to the regulator, Nissan made a nice Bosch style with hose barbs (and can be mounted remotely).

Thanks for that John:D I've got nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain by leaving the original fuel rail. No, the one thing I didn't get with the TB's is a regulator. I got a TPS with it though, and I do have an adjustable regulator in my stash, but I need to work out how it's going to fit.



BTW, ditch the relay box. Wiring in a couple relays and fuses is WAY better than building the double DB37 cable AND the screw down binding posts are kinda ghetto... The relay box on my car (yes, I have one on mine) is the only part of the MS system that has let me down. I had a small trace corrode under one of the relays and the main relay wouldn't switch. I really can't stress how much of a bitch it is to solder all of those wires inside the DB37 connector.......If you mount the ECU inside (say near the glove box) most of the relays/fuses can reside there and a few less wires have to actually be routed back to the engine.

Great work, keep it up!
- Thanks for the dvice on the relay pack - I definitely don't need that kind of hassle and I must admit I wasn't looking forward to soldering 2 DB37 connectors! I was thinking of mounting the ECU in a fabricated area under the usual trinket tray but It could work near to the glove box. I need to give it some thought! ;o) Thanks for the compliment - update to follow shortly once I get a bit more done!

Cheers

[Darren]

So, Darren. Does this mean that when you're done it will be a Montezuki? Or perhaps a Suzucarlo? At least it will be well suited for running out to pick up some sushi... :rolleyes:

I bet it will be really sweet when you're done. Just take your time and do it right. You'll be glad you did.

Thanks DJ! ;o) Or maybe a Lansuki or Suzancia???:D:D I can't wait to get it done, but the time available to me at the moment means that it can't be done quickly ;o)

[Darren]

That would be my advice, too. I had a relay box from DIY, as well, and decided to go with the new fuse/relay combo box instead. Glad I did.

About to reread your post with particular attention to the new fuse/relay box - I need to carefully consider the wiring side as I'm going with EDIS rather than retain the existing dizzy.

Cheers

[DJ]

can't wait to get it done, but the time available to me at the moment means that it can't be done quickly

Believe me, I know how that is! If you make yourself a decent wiring diagram before you start the wiring it will help quite a lot. You'll find it's really pretty easy.

Check out the pictures I posted yesterday of where I mounted the ECU. It was the best place I could find and works nicely.

[Darren]

Man, those sure fit nice. Darren, Im envious after all these years of wanting to build an engine with dual carbs Im seeing all these nice manifolds and EFI swaps I may change directions before all is said and done.

Are those suzuki bits plentiful?

Hi Sean,

I like the look of them too and they're a damn sight cheaper than springing for a set of any of the other options. They are plentiful and bargains are still be had out there, but you do need to make sure you get earlier types (k2 or 3 iirc) which do separate into single units. I was going to go with DCNFs but this gives me the same sound with infinately more driveability - or so I hope! ;o))

Here are some on eBay right now - albeit this side of the pond - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUZUKI-GSXR-1000-K1-Throttle-Injection-Bodies-modified_W0QQitemZ110383796531QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item11038379 6531&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Cheers

[Darren]

Believe me, I know how that is! If you make yourself a decent wiring diagram before you start the wiring it will help quite a lot. You'll find it's really pretty easy.

Check out the pictures I posted yesterday of where I mounted the ECU. It was the best place I could find and works nicely.

Hi DJ,

Yep, it's on the list and I already made a start with replacing the rear loom with more modern thinwall cable, so I Guess this is going to be an extension of that. I didn't think I'd be overhauling the electrics already, but it looks as though that's what's going to be going on! ;o)

[DJ]

About to reread your post with particular attention to the new fuse/relay box - I need to carefully consider the wiring side as I'm going with EDIS rather than retain the existing dizzy.

Cheers

FYI, I got my boxes from Vehicle Wiring Products (http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu). Pretty sure you're familiar with them. My OEM-style connectors came from The Toolbox Shop (http://www.thetoolboxshop.com).

[Darren]

FYI, I got my boxes from Vehicle Wiring Products (http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu). Pretty sure you're familiar with them. My OEM-style connectors came from The Toolbox Shop (http://www.thetoolboxshop.com).

lol, I think I have a lot of VWP's catalogue in the car, so a few more bits won't hurt! - Not heard of the toolbox shop - I'll go have a peruse! Thanks!

[DJ]

lol, I think I have a lot of VWP's catalogue in the car, so a few more bits won't hurt! - Not heard of the toolbox shop - I'll go have a peruse! Thanks!

VWP has many of the same connectors but the Toolbox Shop has them cheaper and in bulk bags.

[John Allen]

here's a couple pictures of the Honda TBs I have. The 600 size (38mm throttles) have the cool plastic trumpets while the 900s (44mm throttles) have a neat secondary set of injectors that can be staged to come on at higher rpm/loads.

I originally bought the 600s for an X1/9 based engine (1500cc) for a sportsracer.... The larger ones are intended to fit on a 2000.

The spacing on the larger set is 80mm o.c. and the 2 'bodies' can be separated to open up the distance. IIRC, the FIAT head intake ports are on 88mm/94mm/88mm o.c. spacing. The 8mm ifference between the head and the TBs can easily be taken up in the manifold porting.

These are really cheap compared to the Suzuki parts and should easily handle the HP we are talking about.

[HF Stinger]

Do, or can any of these motorcycle throttle bodies accept a bosch style injector?

[Scott H]

Thanks DJ! ;o) Or maybe a Lansuki or Suzancia???:D:D I can't wait to get it done, but the time available to me at the moment means that it can't be done quickly ;o)

It's Wopaneese...:D

Nice job, Darren!

>Scott

[John Allen]

Do, or can any of these motorcycle throttle bodies accept a bosch style injector?

I suppose you could ream out the injector hole, but it is pretty thin there. You would of course need a new fuel rail as well.

[Darren]

here's a couple pictures of the Honda TBs I have. The 600 size (38mm throttles) have the cool plastic trumpets while the 900s (44mm throttles) have a neat secondary set of injectors that can be staged to come on at higher rpm/loads.

I originally bought the 600s for an X1/9 based engine (1500cc) for a sportsracer.... The larger ones are intended to fit on a 2000.

The spacing on the larger set is 80mm o.c. and the 2 'bodies' can be separated to open up the distance. IIRC, the FIAT head intake ports are on 88mm/94mm/88mm o.c. spacing. The 8mm ifference between the head and the TBs can easily be taken up in the manifold porting.

These are really cheap compared to the Suzuki parts and should easily handle the HP we are talking about.

Wow John, decisions decisions! The 900s would give you the ultimate set up with the secondary set of injectors, and it would only require a little bit of thought on the manifold fabrication - does MS allow for a secondary set? I was looking primarily for a set that actually split up singly, and I think I paid 80 quid for my set up, but sure there are better deals out there. Will wait with interest on this one!:)

[Darren]

It's Wopaneese...:D

Nice job, Darren!

>Scott

LOL, good one Scott - thanks for the compliment:cheers:

[John Allen]

does MS allow for a secondary set? I was looking primarily for a set that actually split up singly, and I think I paid 80 quid for my set up, but sure there are better deals out there. Will wait with interest on this one!:)

Yes, MS with the 'extra' code does allow for staged injection. Actually multiple strategies on their fuel delivery! I'm not sure about the MS2 code, but I think they have it as well.

You got a good price for your TBs, in the US they go for more.

[lanciatomcat]

Just checked.
The TB's on Ebay Darren referred to went for £152.09 plus £11.00 postage in UK.
He did get a bargain.:cheers:
Tom

[Darren]

To keep the impetus running, I thought I'd start getting everything ready and make sure the bits were all there - I think I need a bigger bench!:scratch:

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_09_02_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8400)

I've been busy and got most of it now - thanks to Jason at Millers Mule, DIYAutoTune and eBay! :D

I'm hoping this works out of the box!
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_11_03_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8409)

ECU, oil cooler, filter & take off, plus the unions ready to start running garden hose to make up the proper ones
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_11_02_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8408)


more to follow

[Darren]

EDIS & leads, short gear selector, gauges & air/fuel meter
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_11.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8406)

Crank trigger wheel, sensor and bracketry
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_10_04_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8405)

Swirl pot, high pressure pump, fuel filter, regulator and sensors
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_10_02_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8403)

Cam wheels, water pump pulley, and Aux pulley
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_10_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8402)

Oil catch tank
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_10.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8401)


A little more to follow!

[Darren]

And finally........a new vx gearbox!
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_09_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8399)

[John Allen]

Jason's stuff that I've seen to date is made for 124s. Did you ask him to make something specific for the Monte???? The pulley spacing is different between the 2 models (as well as the diameter).

Also, I believe is setup uses the 2 'pointer' mounts on the front cover to install the VR sensor - I think the Monte 'front' engine mount may get in the way of that. I have pictures posted in the photo section of the setup I'm going to use. The sensor is on the 'intake' side of the pulley and won't have to be removed to change the alternator belt.

[John Allen]

My error, I see in your photos that the VR sensor is mounted on the 'intake' side. Hopefully the alternator belt will clear it!

[DJ]

And finally........a new vx gearbox!
http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/data/904/thumbs/P070509_18_09_01_.JPG (http://lancisti.net/forum/../photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8399)

Is it really NEW? I thought I had the last new one on the planet! :D You're gonna love it.

If you haven't already, don't go through all the work to swap out the vertical shifter rod. I can talk you through a very simple modification to the existing one.

[Darren]

Is it really NEW? I thought I had the last new one on the planet! :D You're gonna love it.

If you haven't already, don't go through all the work to swap out the vertical shifter rod. I can talk you through a very simple modification to the existing one.

lol DJ, I wish!!:D No, I meant it's new to the car - I did the conversion with the help of Eric W - who supplied expertise, as well as access to a sandblaster which gave a great key to spraying it. I have 2 other spare vx gearboxes in my stash that I may build up and sell or keep against breakdowns. I didn't find the shifter change difficult DJ - or at least that seemed to be the case - that being said its not fitted and tested as yet, so maybe I'll be back for advice!

Where on earth did you manage to find a new and unused box?

[DJ]

lol DJ, I wish!!:D No, I meant it's new to the car - I did the conversion with the help of Eric W - who supplied expertise, as well as access to a sandblaster which gave a great key to spraying it. I have 2 other spare vx gearboxes in my stash that I may build up and sell or keep against breakdowns. I didn't find the shifter change difficult DJ - or at least that seemed to be the case - that being said its not fitted and tested as yet, so maybe I'll be back for advice!

I can guarantee you it's a lot more than what I did! As my box was NOS, I really didn't want to disassemble it. If it had been a used one I probably would have done it the way you did, if for nothing else, to inspect it's condition.


Where on earth did you manage to find a new and unused box?

LOL! In a secret government warehouse in the middle of the Nevada desert. Actually, a Lancisti friend in Missouri had it for sale for almost 2 years. I waited him out until he sold it for what I could afford. :cheers:

He had obtained it from somewhere in the Australian bush. :rolleyes: It was even still in the factory crate.

[Darren]

I can guarantee you it's a lot more than what I did! As my box was NOS, I really didn't want to disassemble it. If it had been a used one I probably would have done it the way you did, if for nothing else, to inspect it's condition.

What did you change on your box? Was it just the output shafts on the diff to accept monte driveshafts and the original speedo drive?



LOL! In a secret government warehouse in the middle of the Nevada desert. Actually, a Lancisti friend in Missouri had it for sale for almost 2 years. I waited him out until he sold it for what I could afford. :cheers:

He had obtained it from somewhere in the Australian bush. :rolleyes: It was even still in the factory crate.

lol, good for you DJ - would have been great to make that kind of find, but at least I have some spares now - or rather a whole pile of monte and beta gearboxes next to the parts washer for when I get REALLY bored! ;o))

[DJ]

What did you change on your box? Was it just the output shafts on the diff to accept monte driveshafts and the original speedo drive?

I only modified the top of shifter shaft. The gearbox came with no differential but with the VX ring gear. I simply swapped the ring gear onto my Scorpion differential and bolted it all up with the Scorpion cover.

[Darren]

I only modified the top of shifter shaft. The gearbox came with no differential but with the VX ring gear. I simply swapped the ring gear onto my Scorpion differential and bolted it all up with the Scorpion cover.

ric - well that would make sense and I can see why you may be reticent about stripping down a brand new box, although that part of the conversion isn't really difficult, as long as you have a socket to remove the castle nuts.

Got my new discs today ready for the brake upgrade - I'll get another thread sorted in the main list once I get my callipers back next weekend at the tech forum. Fingers crossed I get a bit of time in the workshop tomorrow.

Cheers

[Darren]

Well, managed to get a bit of time in the workshop this afternoon, but sadly nothing done on the 'squirt - but I did get a lot done on the oil filter bracket, which is part and parcel of the whole installation project. As it's not strictly FI, I've added it to the normal forum. Hopefully more to follow later in the week.

Cheers

[Darren]

Another quick update after a productive lunchtime. I made a good start on the megasquirt wiring loom, and after one false start - had the DB-37 upside down! - I managed to get the plug soldered up with all required wiring, including the EDIS lead. The next job will be to add heatshrink to the ends to insulate against any touching wires before a final bit of labelling and setting to one side. Another job done and out of the way:cheers:
Now all I need to do is get the replacement rear loom finished and I'll be ready to set everything up ready for fitting. Couple of pics below and a revised wiring diagram will be uploaded to the files section once it's finished.

Thanks for reading.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_0254_1_.jpg

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_0257_1_.jpg

[Darren]

Another interim update - rear looms is finally ready for laying in the car and finalising before being properly wrapped. I used the original one as a template to get the basics correct. I'm using additional connectors for the HRW and courtesy lights, as well as the rear lamps/foglight and numberplate lights. The new wiring is in thinwall and a lot lighter than the original stuff. I've also removed additional wiring where not needed like the fuel pump relays, and voltage regulator.

Progress shots below and more in the Megasquirt folder in my albums.

Thanks for looking

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Reduced_Rear_Loom_-_001.jpg

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Reduced_Rear_Loom_-_003.jpg

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Reduced_Rear_Loom_-_006.jpg

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Reduced_Rear_Loom_-_008.jpg

[DJ]

Looking good. Doesn't it feel great to get that rear wiring cleaned up?

And if you think it's bad on a Monte, you should see the original Scorpion loom with all the emissions wiring in it.

[Darren]

Looking good. Doesn't it feel great to get that rear wiring cleaned up?

And if you think it's bad on a Monte, you should see the original Scorpion loom with all the emissions wiring in it.

It is sooo much better and lighter too! I will get round to swapping out the other looms too at some point, just not sure if it'll be before I get back on the road again! ;o)) The rest of the rear loom (ie engine and MS wiring will have to wait until the reworked engine and box is back in. It's tough as I really need to work on the other car first, but I do want to get cracking on my car - REALLY missing not being able to drive any monte at the moment!:'(

[DJ]

REALLY missing not being able to drive any monte at the moment!:'(

Boy, do I understand that. Just this morning I had to run down to pick up my son who was dropping his car at the dealer for service. My first inclination was to jump in the Alfa and then I had that first "But wait!" moment and realized that Lucia was sitting there ready to go.

A nice morning drive with the top open and I'm feeling really smug about it all today. 8) What a great feeling to finally be able to just jump in the Scorpion and go for a drive.

I also just noticed that you've now reached "Legendary" status with 500 posts here. Woohooo!

[Darren]

Boy, do I understand that. Just this morning I had to run down to pick up my son who was dropping his car at the dealer for service. My first inclination was to jump in the Alfa and then I had that first "But wait!" moment and realized that Lucia was sitting there ready to go.

A nice morning drive with the top open and I'm feeling really smug about it all today. 8) What a great feeling to finally be able to just jump in the Scorpion and go for a drive.

I also just noticed that you've now reached "Legendary" status with 500 posts here. Woohooo!

I'm not envious at all DJ, no really I'm not - I'll be over here in the corner, kicking the cat!!>:D>:D Hopefully it won't be too long before at least one of them is back on the road.

Taken a bit of time to get there - now I have to shoot for the magic 1,000 posts!!! :D:D

[Darren]

Season's gone and the car is still off the road - Boo! Still, I have actually managed to get some work done on it recently - more on the brakes under a different topic on the other forum, but finally did some work on the FI side of things this weekend.

The TB's are now without the choke spindle holes, which were filled with JB weld before being sanded off. Forgot to take pics of them, but will get some later tonight or later in the week. I also started to tackle the fuel rail. Maybe it would have been easier to just have a new one made up, but I wanted to retain the original injector mounts and hopefully I'm well on the way to having them done. The original system didn't have a return line to the tank - possibly something to do with being from a bike maybe? For whatever reason, there was one fuel supply fitting and that was it. That meant that each end of the rail was closed off, The pipe running between the fittings was held in place by a snug fitting rubber seal and also by nature of the fact the the injector bracket was bolted in place. Opening up each end of the rail wasn't a problem - careful drilling and a bit of dressing and that was it. Tapping each end for a screw in union finished the job, with the only thing left to sort is the extended pipe between 2 and 3 TB's. Pic below of before and after tapping.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC00753.JPG

Will take some more to show the finished article and explain better what I've been up to.

I also turned the spacers to set the TB's properly for each port. Out of focus shot shows the spacers in place and then highlights the next problem of getting the throttle to work on all TB's again.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC00754.JPG

A quick strip out of the throttle shaft and an extension welded before putting it back together and hey presto, a working throttle once more!

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC00756.JPG

The last pic shows the cable action for the throttle refitted. I'm going to try and use this - seems to work ok on a bike! The difference of course is that a bike uses 2 cables to action opening and closing. My feeling that this is more of a backup to ensure that a throttle cannot stick open - not fun on 2 wheels, and I'm hoping that a strong enough return spring will make the system work. I'm going to keep the tickover cable in place for now as a backup, although I shouldn't need it, but it does work well - as long as I can make up a bracket for it.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC00755.JPG

Jobs for this week include making up bracketry to keep the TB's in place, the backplate, and fitting the swirlpot, HP fuel pump and crankcase breather tank.

Thanks for looking - comments welcome as ever and more to follow soon!

Cheers

[Darren]

Very quick update - finished off the new link piece of the fuel rail to compliment the larger spacing between number 2 and 3 TB's. Little bit of lathe work and hey presto! An extra 16mm in the length and grooves cut for the ring seals without any hassle. Fingers crossed it will all go together ok. More photos to follow tomorrow.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_0891.jpg

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_0892.jpg

[Darren]

Another update at the end of the weekend - good progress made but still a long way to go! Not how much more I'll get done this week as I've got a 164 being delivered tomorrow for it's engine and box to be removed and off again so I can get the car out of the garage for the NEC on Thursday! Should be fun!!

Anyhoo, jobs done this weekend were finishing off the link rail so the injectors could be properly mounted and making up a bracket for the tickover adjuster

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Picture_003_02.jpg

Started work on the back plate. I thought it best to make the plate in 2 parts, upper and lower. Hole drilled for the air temp sensor and brackets tacked on. The next job will be to drill and make sure the 2 halves securely fit together.

There unfortunately isn't room at the mo for an airbox - at least until I can get another short gear selector shaft. Meantime the TB mouths will be open to air. I've got a set of socks I'll probably stick on for safety's sake

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Picture_002_02.jpg

I also made a start on getting the injection wiring together and wrapped. Need to get hold of some waterproof connectors for them, the air and water temp sensors, and the TPS.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Picture_005_01.jpg

As ever comments welcome

[John Allen]

nice wiring, I love the work!

One comment, are the 4 vacuum lines coming out of the top of th TB going to the MAP sensor? You will probably want to relocate those to the 'bottom' as they will become close to atmospheric pressure VERY quickly as the throttle plates are opened. You want the signal source to always be in the 'vacuum' side of the plates (ask me how I know this! makes tuning VERY difficult).

Also, I found when I was running ITBs, that running all 4 vaccum lines to a single point (and all 4 lines equal length) it made for a better signal. FIAT Spiders (I think '79s) have a neat 4port-1outlet fitting in the emmision lines that works great for this job. The 'outlet' on these are a little larger than the inlets and I put an idle jet (from the original carb) into the oulet port before attaching the MAP sensor vacuum line - snaps right it. The idle jet acts as a buffer to smooth out the signal (I didn't use the fuel filter trick), restrictions in each of the 4 lines may help even more. Too large of signal lines between the cylinders bleeds off too much signal (vacuum from one cylinder is letout in the adjacent cylinder).


----------- update -------------------
I just noticed that your throttle cable is pulling from the bottom not the top (I was seeing the idle adjust cable - thought it was the throttle). Your vacuum ports are on the correct side.

[Darren]

Hi John,

Thanks for the compliments! I must admit I hadn't intended using the vacuum lines at all - they're actually capped off. I'm using TPS, air and water temp senders, and a WB sensor to look after timing - and it will be running EDIS. Oh, and there's obviously a crank sensor in the mix too!

I'm just in the process of fitting the swirl pot and other associated fuel supply bits and I'm going to fab up an airbox of some description. I wasn't happy with the backplate, so I'll start again. The problem is the inability to fit trumpets or socks, so I need to make up something that will prevent water or rubbish reaching the TB mouths.

Cheers!

[Darren]

Another quick update - I've been a bit tied up with one thing and another - the car was supposed to be at the NEC again this year for the Classic & Sportscar Show, but it wouldn't go on the trailer because the track is now too wide! Not a happy bunny and with the Allroad doing it's diesel pump meaning a trip home on a flatbed, courtesy of the AA, it wasn't a good weekend for me on the car front! I was hoping to get some work on the car done while it was on the stand, but that obviously went by the by!:mad: Still, I did get to work on a car when I ended up fitting Paul Millet's car with my twin fan wiring loom! ;o))

Anyway, here's a couple of shots to keep the thread going

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Picture_0432.jpg

This is a bit of a rubbish shot really as you can't really see anything! Dummy fit of the TB's and fuel rail. I did have a major 'Oh F**k' moment when I first tried to fit them and they wouldn't go on! It took a little while to realise that I had to fit the cut down oil filter bracket, and once that was done, it fitted without a hitch!

I'm working on a new design for an airbox, but I do need to get the shortened gear selector rod.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Picture_0423.jpg

Swirl pot altered to fit the series one airbox bracket

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/Picture_0441.jpg

EDIS 4 unit first fitted - needs to come off again to be painted, and looking at this shot, so does the clutch slave!!

Now I've got the NEC out of the way and the engine and box out of the 164 - see separate thread, I can concentrate on finishing this install and get this thing back on the road!!

More to follow in the not too distant future!!

[Darren]

Very quick update after spending a bit of time in the garage today. Since the last update the engine's now out of the car in preparation for the additions and alterations. I've fitted a new crossmember and shortened gear selector rod, together with new braking system - see other thread.

The additional fuel pump has been fitted and the pipework is now fitted and ready for the engine to be put back in. Swirlpot is back in again with further alteration for the oil breather tank. I've fitted the new rear loom and MS loom and just need to fit the relay/fuse box before moving back into finishing the interior and getting the engine/box ready sorted.

I decided to site the ECU behind the passenger seat. I liked the idea of placing it upfront and behind the speaker mount, but I also have the window relays mounted there, as well as a set of large speakers!

Here's a few pics

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01165.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=9111)

Here you can see both fuel pumps, the fuel filter, as well as the short gear selector. You can also see the oil cooling pipework away to the right.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01166.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=9112)

This one is obviously the swirlpot (not mounted) and associated pipework, taken before the rear loom was refitted.


The other job left to do in the engine bay before moving on to other things is the fitting of the LC-1 WB sensor. If anyone has some pointer or pics on fitting one of these, I'd be very interested to see them. There doesn't seem to be much length on the sensor cable, meaning the unit has, at the moment, to be mounted around the rear numberplate. This means that the onward cabling has a long route to get to relay box.

I assume it's easy enough to break the cable and add an extension in there?

As ever, thanks for looking - comments, pointers and advice welcome.

Cheers

[fay66]

Hi Darren,
I'm full of admiration for your exceedingly nice workmanship. Good luck I hope you have it up and running before much longer.
Regards
Brian

[Darren]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the kind words. Updates should follow pretty frequently now on this thread and the others connected with getting it back on the road again as it's booked to go to the classic car show in Bristol town centre on the 24th April - 43 days and counting until I have to leave!!

There's nothing like a deadline to give yourself some added pressure!:D

Cheers

[Darren]

Not been able to get out to the garage for the last couple of days, so I've kept myself busy with wiring schematics. I've uploaded a rough copy of the wiring for the install based on my requirements, ie with EDIS, TPS and of course, the MS unit.

I used a bit of freeware program to start the process off - it's called SCH Express and I think it's based more around PCB work rather than automotive wiring, but it's very easy to pick up and start laying things out. It does take a bit of time to 'build' the different components, but once sorted, it pretty much flows.

I was trying to emulate DJ's excellent drawing, which is now in my stash but that would probably require me to buy some software!

Now it's done in black and white, I can get to work on adding the colours for the wiring. You can find the file here if you want to have a look

http://www.lancisti.net/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=186

More info to follow shortly.

Cheers

[Darren]

Finally, a good weekend's progress!! Makes a nice change to make some good progress. I finished off the replacement head with a new cam carrier on the inlet side, without the end dizzy drive.

The next thing to do was to strip down the engine, removing sump and oil pump, along with the crank end covers by pulleys and flywheel. Obviously the head was also removed and set aside.

The end plates were replaced with new units, with new seals and gaskets. New oil pump fitted and sump gasket before sump was refitted. I refitted the head and torqued it down before moving onto the pulleys.

New crank nose cambelt pulley, aux pump pulley from a Beta before the triggerwheel/fanbelt pulley went back on and waterpump pulley. I did have a sexy turned ally one, but it wouldn't line up so the original went back on again.

The crank sensor bracket went straight on, as did the sensor. Alternator bracket is going to need some work, but I managed to mount it where the belt won't foul on the sensor, which is kinda important!! :D

Final bits were mocking up the rest of the bits, such as the EDIS bracket and the throttle bodies in preparation for working out the positioning of the air filter.

Somehow I managed to forget picking up a new cambelt! Not sure whether to go for a standard one or an inch wide one - anyone got any ideas either way?

I'll order one up tomorrow, along with a new breather pipe bend, and I can finish that side of things off ready hopefully to refit engine and gearbox next weekend!

Couple of pics follow of the engine as it is now and the EDIS bracket. I will take some more of the separate bits when I get out there again.

Thanks for looking and comments/thoughts welcome

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01179.JPG

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01183.JPG

- One more thing - I have a set of leads, which are very long! Is it possible to shorten them without any tools or should I be looking to get a set made to order?

Cheers

[John Allen]

nice to hear about your progress

is that front pulley a FIAT or Beta spec? The Monte/Scorpion uses a different belt location (appears you have found that out) and I don't think a Beta or 124 type water pump pulley will clear the side frame rails. My EDIS trigger wheel is on the 'outside' of the belt groove, since I didn't think there was enough room for the toothed ring to clear the cam belt.

I also mounted the EDIS coils down on the bellousing (using the 3 studs normally holding a Scorpion smog pump - not sure if Montes have these bosses). The stock Ford wires fit to this location perfectly and looks pretty clean. You should be able to cut the wires to a shorter length, I would consider cutting the spark plug end because those ends are easier to find around here.

[Darren]

nice to hear about your progress

is that front pulley a FIAT or Beta spec? The Monte/Scorpion uses a different belt location (appears you have found that out) and I don't think a Beta or 124 type water pump pulley will clear the side frame rails. My EDIS trigger wheel is on the 'outside' of the belt groove, since I didn't think there was enough room for the toothed ring to clear the cam belt.

I also mounted the EDIS coils down on the bellousing (using the 3 studs normally holding a Scorpion smog pump - not sure if Montes have these bosses). The stock Ford wires fit to this location perfectly and looks pretty clean. You should be able to cut the wires to a shorter length, I would consider cutting the spark plug end because those ends are easier to find around here.

Hi John,

I got the pulley wheels from 'miller's mule' your side of the pond. I got in touch with them and told them what I was doing and what I wanted - and that's what I got sent through. It does line up with the original water pump pulley, so that's what I've gone with. I just need to make sure the alternator lines up and that it doesn't foul the crank sensor - moving it down so that it clears the throttle bodies also helps with that too! I'll let you know if I have any probs with fitting the cambelt, especially with using a 1" belt. I'll get some more pics taken to show this setup once the new belt turns up on Wednesday.


I have a crimping tool now to reset the HT leads, so that will be another job to do this coming weekend!:D

Thanks for the comments!

Cheers

[Darren]

Another update - John here's a shot of the crank pulley showing the triggerwheel and clearance - I'm using a 1" belt.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01191.JPG

And here with the crank sensor and fanbelt fitted

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01192.JPG

Big news - The Vx box has been fitted to the engine and it's now back where it should be!! I was up ohcrackringboltsparrowfart this morning to catch the GP qualli and then headed out to the workshop, so a good long day's work out there. Engine is now completely assembled with throttlebodies and other anciliaries. I'm waiting to get the exhaust back from being welded with the WB plug. Now all I have to do is wire it up!

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC011951.JPG

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01199.JPG

Thanks for looking!

[Darren]

Just a quick update with a couple of pics - process of connecting everything up is continuing. I was hoping to be able to try starting this weekend, but doesn't look like it now, unless maybe I get the whole day out there tomorrow. Still, made some process yesterday with the exhaust now being back on, gear selector rods, heater matrix pipes are remounted to the inside of the 'tunnel', and work has started on the relay box. I changed the wiring on it so have started again from scratch. Hopefully I might be able to slip out there again this afternoon. Pic below shows the engine bay getting more full of wiring and I have now mounted the oil breather tank. Progress made, slow 'n' steady!

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01203.JPG

Thanks for looking!

[Darren]

Things are still moving forward, just not as quickly as I would like - ain't that always the way! Still plugging away at the wiring at the moment, but getting to the end of it now I think/hope.

EDIS is now wired up, along with new modified HT leads. I ran the extension line through for the LC-1, so that's another job off the list. All other wiring is now laid out and just waiting to be terminated and covered. I removed the throttle bodies to get access to back of the engine to finish off wiring and do a final torque check of all the oil pipework.

The only other jobs left to do in the engine bay are to properly mount the oil cooler and ducting, and rework the matrix piping so it's 'T'd off the water piping to allow better flow of coolant when the valve is closed. Then it's fluids in and engine cover on!

That leaves finishing off putting the interior back - routing the window relays to a switched live rather than permanent to help not drain the battery, bleeding of brakes and clutch, and finally changing in a new windscreen motor from a Delta. It's a smaller unit, but I'm sure I can make it work.

More pics of the other jobs will follow, but in the meantime here are some pictures of the spaghetti that's my engine bay right now! ;o)

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_2136.JPG
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_2137.JPG

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_2138.JPG

Thanks for looking and comments welcome

ps - if any of you other 'squirters' out there would be prepared to send me a copy of their map or a reference point to start with, I'd be fantastically grateful! Cheers!

[Darren]

Anyone?

[HF Stinger]

Im still in awe. I'd just love having an engine compartment like that someday. As far as MS goes I can't offer too many suggestions as Im an 034EFI guy, but your harware and components look great!

[Darren]

Thanks Sean,

I think this must be a dead forum now as there's next to no traffic on it any more! Getting ready to start now, or at least I will once I get to grips with the programming. Wires are now terminated, but not properly tidied as yet - and the throttle bodies are finally back on. Pics below

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_2142.JPG
Throttle bodies back on

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_2145.JPG
Oil Cooler fitted, as well as ducting

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_2139.JPG
Heater Matrix bypass

Cheers

[DJ]

I'd think it has more to do with the fact that the sun is shining and people are finding better things to do than hang out here all day. :D

I've been busy with work and 3 different car events in the last 2 weeks.

[HF Stinger]

I sure wish this car was in the US :O}

As part of another aquisition I got a set of ITB's w/TPS input. The owner was going to use them on his NA Audi 20v 5cyl but sold the car and all his goodies before it happened. I can't wait to hear your reports of the ITB's on your car.

You also have to promise us some audio / video driveby footage hear that car sing.

[Darren]

I sure wish this car was in the US :O}

As part of another aquisition I got a set of ITB's w/TPS input. The owner was going to use them on his NA Audi 20v 5cyl but sold the car and all his goodies before it happened. I can't wait to hear your reports of the ITB's on your car.

You also have to promise us some audio / video driveby footage hear that car sing.

Lol, now that would be a road trip! We are looking at another European tour in The Consortium, but I'm not sure we could stretch it to take in the US too, although that would be great!

Good luck with the ITBs. There's no reason why they shouldn't work, it's just thinking it through and overcoming any hurdles. I found this page tonight - http://www.microsquirt.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6627 which gives good info on a lot of different types of ITBs. I think I now have the specs of the injectors and will start the process of playing with Megatune.

I will definitely be getting some video footage of the car once its up and running - promise! Not sure it will be this week now, but there's still a little time left for it all to come together.

Cheers

[Darren]

I'd think it has more to do with the fact that the sun is shining and people are finding better things to do than hang out here all day. :D

I've been busy with work and 3 different car events in the last 2 weeks.

Hi DJ,

You're obviously having better weather your side of the pond. I have work and a car to work on too, as well as other things - I guess I'm just that sad that I log in more frequently:)

[andybeta]

Nice pics. Your installation is looking smart. Keep us updated on progress.
It looks very promising indeed.
Andybeta.

[FORZALANCIA]

Nice Work Darren!

Will be using a squirt soon 2 :)

[Darren]

Thanks guys, update to follow shortly after the weekend once I've been back out there again.

Cheers

[Darren]

I must be flippin' mental! :o :o :o

I've just taken out the MS loom to redo it having decided on a mounting place for the ECU. It was all connected up, but it all got a bit messy around the relay pack so it's all off again and disconnected ready for another go and hopefully a more tidy result!

I'm still making progress and getting ever closer to being back on the road again. After the oh **** moment I now have the original gearbox back in again with the VX box set asdie ready for stripping and inspection. The rear wishbones have been cleaned and painted, and the toe adjusters have been stripped, lubed and refitted ready to be set once the car goes for it's mot.

I finally got the brakes properly mounted and first stage bled. I'll do them again once the pads have been bedded in a bit. I've removed the last of the dowty washers and retightened all of the oil lines. The undertray has now been fitted and I have a working handbrake again!

The next job - after the rewiring of the MS unit will be to get the dashlights working - no alternator or generator lights at the mo, but all lights now working fine and I finally have a working aerial, thanks to the metal part of the front grille!!

I'll get round to some pics when there's something new to take pics of! Everything at the moment is being done for the nth time! ;o)

Cheers all!

Darren

[Darren]

Another quick update - small steps, some backward, some forward! I am now happier with the wiring having completed the reworking and rewiring of the engine and power unit wiring. That was the step forward, along with getting the oil pressure and temp sensors sorted together with alternator connections. The challenges now are the TPS unit, which was giving some weird readings, but appears to be ok now I've tested it off the car. I'll put it back on tomorrow and recheck it once I've sorted the other issue, which is a gotcha for anyone attempting to do the same. Beware of the EDIS wiring - or at least read it, then read it, and then read it again! I did all that and still made a mistake I think!! The upshot is that I need to add a wire from the ECU to the EDIS unit, which is a complete pain in the A**e!! So the loom will come out again tomorrow before reworking the connections and hopefully that will allow this thing to finally cough back into life! Getting close now! Just got to keep at it!!

Another update to follow shortly!!

Cheers

Darren

I'll take some pics once it's all back together - Im sure you won't see a difference, but I'm happier its now a tidier install:D Oh, one other thing - don't rely on the schematic in the downloads section I posted, as i'm pretty sure it's wrong. I'll update it as soon as I confirm it on the car.

[Darren]

Ok, pictures as promised. I managed to run the new wire into the MS loom and refit it without too much of a problem, which is good to know if it ever has to come out again. All I need to do now is to rework the connections either end and try for a start!

Here's a shot of the power box and the reworked wiring
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01327.JPG (http://lancisti.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8698)

This one shows the box in position and the lack of birds nest!
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01331.JPG

And here's a shot of my workshop assistant, Little Miss Lancisti!
http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/DSC01307.JPG

Update to follow after the weekend.

Cheers

[FORZALANCIA]

Wow Darren, looks mint!

How much did the squirt setup set you back?

Thought of making some kits up?

cheers,
Tony

[Darren]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the compliment - I am much happier now I've tidied it all up. About to head out now to finish off the soldering and have a go at starting if I get the chance before I have to head off.

I bought the kit of bits from here - http://www.diyautotune.com/ You can pick up the basic kit for around $250USD and the rest depends on what you want and what you already have lying around. I will be writing an article for the Consortium magazine detailing the rest of the install, and once it's finished, I'll do a full kit list. Like many projects, the main components are only have the story (and expense!)

I have thought about kits, but there are so many different permeatations depending on sensors, type (ie throttlle body, plenum, EDIS, distributor) etc etc then it would have to be built to order unless I decided on one way to go and did that.

Still got to get mine running first though! Update to follow hopefully shortly!

Cheers

[Darren]

Another update in the ongoing saga. Got everything working on the stim ok and transferred the ECU into the car. I have tps now calibrated properly and I get a tach signal on cranking. Took a bit of playing to get the crank sensor working, but it seems to be ok now.

I think I have everything set, but I don't seem to be able to get the thing to fire. Will do the usual checks but I'm not sure I'm getting fuel or spark at the mo - would expect to smell fuel but nothing - will break out the timing light and see if there's spark too.

Any suggestions from you 'squirters' welcome.

Cheers

[Darren]

Another update in the ongoing saga

RPM signal is from a crank sensor, running through an EDIS system. I have an rpm of around 240 during cranking and the software recognises that the engine is in cranking phase. I have yet to check whether there is a SAW signal getting through, or whether its in 'limp home' mode. What is clear after yesterday's tests is that I have spark, but no fuel. I have power to the injectors but for some reason there is no ground signal to get them to pulse.

I will be doing a manual ground of each injector later today - MS trigger wires disconnected - to confirm that if a signal is received then they should spray.

I have cranked the car and confirmed that I'm not in flood clear mode and run the ECU on the stim again this morning to confirm that all lights are functioning as they should be - I'm getting flashing lights on both injector banks and everything else seems to be working through the rev, tps and temp ranges.

The only other issue that may or not be an issue is that when the laptop is plugged in and cranking has ceased (obviously without an engine start), the rpm remains at just over 200 rpm and the cranking light stays on.

I'm not sure if maybe the pwm on cranking is too short, but it's calculated as per the recommendations. Req Fuel is 15.6 as a starting point. Oh, and injectors aren't marked as far as I can see. I have kept the original part of the loom from the bike for the injectors, so unless they were activated the other way aroumd, ie permanent earth and trigger was a positive pulse, then that shouldn't be an issue.

I will obviously be checking the trigger wires for continuity and treble-reconfirming-sanity-double checking the DB37 wiring and connections!

All sensors MAP, IAT, & CLT are reading a reasonable figure for the conditions. MAP does fluctuate on cranking. I'll be peeved if it is compression - but I can put the other head back on again. Unfortunately, I have nether comp tester or stethoscope at the mo, so fingers crossed I won't need them!

Any input welcomed!

Cheers!

[FORZALANCIA]

Darren ive been speaking to a guy about ordering a unit is this the correct setup/type?

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_IAW_Weber.htm

thanks,
Tony

[Darren]

Hi Tony,

It really depends on what setup you're going with. I would start at www.DIYAutoTune.com and have read through. Matt Cramer there is very knowledgeable and will be able to point you in the right direction and offer advice. I think the link you sent is based on more modern Lancia with FI fitted as standard. The setup I have is completely different; essentially

Port Injection on Individual Throttle Bodies - no plenum and no single throttle body
EDIS - distributorless ignition using a 36-1 triggerwheel and crank sensor
LC-1 WB O2 sensor (innovate)
No MAS
MAP onboard ECU
TPS from bike application
NO MS Relay board

I bought the MS-II kit on a V3 board. DIYAutotTune also do built kits off the shelf I believe. I don't knoe much about the 'extra' stuff as wanted to keep it relatively simple - he said with a hollow laugh!! ;o)

Hope this helps, but feel free to come back if there's anything else I can help with.

Cheers

[Darren]

Well, that was an couple of weeks! The car was finally running!!!! I say was because it isn't at the moment.

A lot of checking since the last update revealed that the triggerwheel was mounted in the wrong position!!! So, off with the pulley and found a local precision engineers who can do a lot of fabricating for me if I decide to start producing the bits for a kit. Anyhoo, I gave them the pulley with the new point marked and they redrilled it and ran it up on a lathe to make sure it runs true - sorted! With that refitted, I was hoping that it would fire up. No such luck!

Next then to suspect the EDIS unit or the coil and to recheck the earthing - I ran a large cable from the battery negative terminal to the engine earth point for the ECU and sensors etc, together with better EDIS earthing, but still nothing.

I am very fortunate in that there are a couple of guys from the MS forum who live locally. The first arrived and got the settings to a point where it was so close to running I could smell it! The other visited yesterday afternoon to have a look at the problem. Happily the EDIS and the coilpack are fine so I have some spares. The crank timing was checked with the SAW lead unplugged and got confirmed 10 Deg BTDC as should be. Once the fueling was adjusted, the engine caught and ran!!!!! http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.montecarlo.org.uk/forum/Smileys/default/grin.gif Sounded like a lawnmower, but it was running - yippee!!

Next step was a compression test which showed a low reading across all bores, pointing towards cam timing being out. When compared to the original, there was a visual difference between the two heads. BIG Gotcha coming up - be very very careful when changing cam wheels for vernier pulleys that the marks on the new wheels match up with the ones you are taking off, or you could have problems. The inlet cam was around 45 Deg out! The amazing thing was that the engine turned over with no interference and therefore no suggestion of a problem, the engine runs but just not very well and with very little compression. At this stage, I'd rather go back to a cylinder head I know rather than try to get the one on there to work where there may be an issue with sealing valves.

So, the car isn't running now as the head is on it's way to being removed. I may even take some more pics as I go and the plan is to have everything back to running for Saturday all being well and no other issues cropping up.

Cheers

Darren

[FORZALANCIA]

Wow Darren,

looks like you found the issue, hope it all works out well for you fella ;)

Cheers,
Tony

[Darren]

I must be the luckiest sod around; that or it was just my turn for a bit of luck. Head off and stripped down - not a single bent valve or any marks to show that they've been in contact!! Inlet cam was over 45 degrees out of tune. All valves taken out, checked and lapped ready for rebuild tomorrow. Watch this space!

Cheers

Darren

[FORZALANCIA]

Excellento!

:)

[Darren]

Quick update - after a full strip, clean, relap and rebuild - head refitted and.....it runs!! Ticks over no problems at all. Lost the light so not able to run up to full temps, but promising start. Hope to get a few little jobs out of the way tomorrow afternoon in readiness for an mot next week. Le Mans in the Monte on Thursday is starting to look like a distinct possibility! ;o)

Cheers

Darren

[Darren]

Todays work involved retorque of the head, recheck valve clearances and tidy up the wiring before a few other tidying jobs. Restart went without a hitch - ran up to operating temps and all seemed to be ok. Also managed to get rid of all the smoke involved in the new exhaust wrap. Just waiting to hear on when I can get it tuned as not sure where it is at the moment as the current map was used to get it running with the cams out of tuning! Update to follow - pics below

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_1192.JPG

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_1196.JPG

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_1191.JPG

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/904/medium/IMG_1197.JPG

Oh, and it's finally back on the ground and off the axle stands!! ;o))

Cheers

Darren

[lanciatomcat]

Darren
Looking very neat and professional. Well done.
I know it has been very frustrating at times, but I believe, there is a lot of light at the end of the tunnel now.
Regards
Tom

[FORZALANCIA]

Looks amazing Darren, well done!

Cheers,
Tony

[davidb]

Stunning job Darren! I particularly liked your engine lid lift strut
placement. Fabbing a mounting plate for the lower spare tire sup-
port bracket opening. Very novel! My lid lifts, lower mounts, are
roughly in the same location. I thought I was the only one who
intuited that was THE logical location for struts. Good for you!

[Darren]

Looks amazing Darren, well done!

Cheers,
Tony

Thanks mate - just need to get it properly tuned now - so if anyone out there has any pointers on how to set this up now it's running, don't be afraid to pitch in! ;o)

[Darren]

Stunning job Darren! I particularly liked your engine lid lift strut
placement. Fabbing a mounting plate for the lower spare tire sup-
port bracket opening. Very novel! My lid lifts, lower mounts, are
roughly in the same location. I thought I was the only one who
intuited that was THE logical location for struts. Good for you!

Thanks David, made sense to me at the time, although I think I'm going to have problems mounting a spare wheel, even if it is a spacesaver!!

Cheers

Darren

[davidb]

Lid struts that would get the lid HIGH enough up in the air to
ACTUALLY work on the engine was more important to me
than a factory located spare tire. My spare will reside in the
front boot. Life is a compromise. God I hated that support bar!

[Darren]

Lol, certainly gets it up and out of the way for normal working - I'll just have to give some more thought to the spare. Certainly wouldn't go back to the usual strut now

Cheers

Darren

[andybeta]

How's the car progressing? What outings are you planning for it, the Lancia AGM by any chance, as would love to see it?

[lanciatomcat]

Hi there
Think you will not get a reply from Darren till, maybe, Tuesday. He is at the Le Mans Classic with the Consortium.
Regards
Tom

[Darren]

How's the car progressing? What outings are you planning for it, the Lancia AGM by any chance, as would love to see it?

Hi Andy,

As Tom correctly surmised I've been at Le Mans and spent yesterday catching up with the backlog of work. Picked up the car from the tuners yesterday and now have to get another lambda sensor before trying to tune it again. Still have a few other jobs to do and really do need to spend some time with the family. For those reasons I won't be at the LMC AGM, but planning to show up at the Silverstone Classic assuming I can get proper parking, although not for the whole weekend.

Update to follow shortly once I've got a bit more work done!

Cheers

Darren

[Darren]

Just to keep you up to date - took the car out for its first long run yesterday to the Auto Italia show at Gaydon - car ran faultlessly - still not 100% happy with the mapping but at least it cruises now and I can drive it while tinkering with the other bits and pieces. As it happened, the Lambda sensor was fine, just needed properly calibrating, but the crank sensor needed to be of the 2 wire variety for the EDIS unit, rather than the powered item I had. A long journey for sure, but ultimately worth it I think. Would I do another one? Yes, definitely, especially as I have learnt a lot of useful lessons!!

Cheers

Darren

[FORZALANCIA]

Would I do another one? Yes, definitely, especially as I have learnt a lot of useful lessons!!



Fly over and do mine :) lol, hows the tune now? Any dyno results? How does she feel response wise and driveability with the efi?

Cheers,
Tony

[Darren]

LOL, pay my airfare, and the missus and I'd happily do it! ;o) Just did a bit of tweeking before I wintered the car - will be overhauling it again in a month or so once I've cleared other projects, but on last drive, it ran great - I also have flames on the overrun, which serves to prevent tailgaters on the motorway!!

I have to make an airbox as it is a lot louder now and I can get rid of the airsocks. I think I've also got a resonance issue somewhere too - always new jobs to do!! ;o))

Cheers

Darren

[Darren]

Update on the continuing saga that is LRB! I hadn't done much tinkering with the car at all and ran it as was to the NEC for the Classic & Sportscar Show where the cars got plenty of medical and other attention - see below! LRB came home from there and straight into a garage for the rest of the winter. Lots of other jobs seemed to take over and no further work had been done.

This year was very much the same and it was only last week that LRB finally came out of the garage. This year I was determined to at least have the car running 100%, even if the comestic stuff I fully intended to do over the winter (ie both bumpers!) hadn't been done. After much searching and gnashing of teeth I decided to take the car to a respected rolling road to have the car properly mapped, especially as it has now been fitted with a Guy Croft 3A inlet cam. Driving the car there presented no fueling problems at all, which makes me think that it was overfueled to start with!

Anyhoo, it's there now and I collect it at the end of the week - more info to follow then on the final evolution of this engine. My original plan was that this would be a short term engine before installing the V6, but because LRB has spent so much time off the road for various mods and improvements, I'll think I'll drive it for a couple of years before the next major works begin.

Keep your fingers crossed that all is well come the end of the week. Valve clearances and timings have been checked, as well as temps and a compression test, all ok so far.

Watch this space!

Cheers

Darren

[FORZALANCIA]

Looking great Darren! Even got some attention from the ladies :)

Cheers,
Tony

[Darren]

Hi Tony,

Well the car did anyway! 80) can't wait to get LRB back so I can go play!!!

Cheers

Darren