Anyone know the wheel center bore dimension?

[Itsa Scorpion]

Well, I purchased my first Lancia today!
It's a series 2 Scorpion # 1688 and I can't wait to drive it. The car has been stored in a barn for 15 years and is as far as I can tell is rust free and not at all far from being a nice car. I'll do belts, hoses, etc. before driving it, but as all 4 tires are dry rotted and still on the original bowtie wheels, I'm looking at upgrading to 15s".

There are quite a few threads on wheel/tire options here, but I wondered if any of you know the required hub bore dimension to retain the hub-centricity?

I'm looking at a 15X7 wheel with 4 on 98 bolt pattern, +15 offset and a 58.5 center bore. Based on what I've read so far, I think these will work fine without modifications or spacers? Probably go with 195-50 fronts and 205-50 rears?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

[John O]

I'll do belts, hoses, etc. before driving it, but as all 4 tires are dry rotted and still on the original bowtie wheels, I'm looking at upgrading to 15s". Thanks for any help you can offer!

There are soooo many different opinions as to wheel/tire upgrades and I'm sure you'll get a bunch posted here real soon.

My first piece of advice though is likely not what you don't want to read. Since you are dealing with a car which has sat idle for a very long time, I highly advise you simply put some tires on the bowties before you get too far ahead of yourself - even used tires will be fine as you sort out the car.

You might already know all this, so no offense intended if I sound a bit preachy. Do some research on wheels, check the advice given here since folks have different reasons for their wheel choices, but if the car has been sitting for 15 years like you're saying, you are in for quite a bit of renovation work which will go well beyond changing belts and hoses ...even if it "ran when parked". As robust as I've found old Fiats to be, unless someone has regularly checked in on the car, it may be quite some time before you have it ready to drive. Mine had been sitting for 9 years and it took me a year and a half of constant work before I took my first test drive around the block - vintage cars have special, often irritating, age-related problems not covered in any manual.

I guess I've assumed a lot in the previous paragraph. Does the car run?

Back to wheels:
My personal prefence is nothing over 14" on a vintage Fiat (Lancia). Too big a wheel, with short side wall and too much tire contact patch equals rough ride and high steering effort at low speeds which all adds up to component wear of an already geriatric car and driver! But that's just me, plenty of folks here running 15's who like 'em just fine.

Good luck and welcome to the brotherhood!

John O.

[Itsa Scorpion]

Thanks for the input and suggestions.
The car has been reasonably cared for over the years. He actually did about $1K in brake and other work while it was stored three years ago! While no expert on these cars, I do have a bit of experience, and look forward to doing the work. I'm about 70% done going through what will be a two year redo on a 75 308GT4 so I understand how projects always seem to take longer than planned.... :-)

I definitely want to change the wheels, but would like to maintain the hub-centricity if they were in fact originally designed this way.

Hopefully someone here will have the answer.........

Thanks again!

[davidb]

AH HA! See that Will? A GT4. Na, na.

[John O]

I'm about 70% done going through what will be a two year redo on a 75 308GT4 so I understand how projects always seem to take longer than planned.... :-)

A GT4! :cheers: Shoot, you already know what you're in for!!! LOL.




I definitely want to change the wheels, but would like to maintain the hub-centricity if they were in fact originally designed this way.

Yup, there are plenty of wheels out there which will let you keep hub-centricity. Though not a popular choice 'round these parts (I've gotten some crap for using them), I went with the late Fiat Spider "Turbo" wheel. My reasons were ultimately practical for me: 14" let me upgrade brakes, Fiat wheel is naturally hub-centric, nearly perfect 25mm off-sett (in my eyes), plenty of replacements available if I damage one, correct vintage and style for the car (again, IMO). I think they're pretty handsome on the car, but I might be biased.

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/500/John_O_Scorp_1.jpg

http://lancisti.net/photopost/data/500/Scorp_to_Carlisle.JPG

[Itsa Scorpion]

I wondered about those. They've always been my favorite 124 wheel and IMHO they look great on the Scorpion too!

Thanks for the info. Knowing that the hub bore is the same as a 124 answers my original question.

I've had the GT4 about 5 years and really do look forward to having it back on the road again soon. Italian car day here in Atlanta in October is the goal. It's in the paint booth today in fact! I stripped, primed and blocked it here in the garage, but figured it was better to have someone a lot better than me with a paint gun shoot the color. Its going back the original Blu Scuro (dark Blue) with tan interior. Here's a couple pics from about a month ago.

Thanks guys I look forward to visiting here often!

[davidb]

WOW, nice job on the GT4! When I pitched 20 yrs. of "R & T"
mags the only issue I saved was 11/79 where on p. 164
they test: "A DRIVER'S CAR IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD".
I prefer the light met. blue [Azzuro Portifino] over the dark
blue but those cars look great in almost any factory color.
Compared to Ferrari part prices Scorpion prices will seem like
something for a VW Beetle. Keep in touch & post some GT4
pics when she's done.

[Itsa Scorpion]

Yep, the parts prices is probably the biggest drawback. Having T Rutlands here in town helps a lot and eBay and I have become great friends... :-) Been able to find some good deals on parts there. The car is really very nice to work on, much better than I expected. Probably very similar to the Scorpion in many ways. I know its just an "entry level" Ferrari, and not real fast, but the driving experience and sound is fantastic. The Scorpion should sound good as it's got sidedraft Webers and an Ansa too.

I won't be able to get the Scorpion home until late next week, but will post some pics then.

[Scott H]

Do you know Jeff Davison? He is in Atlanta (Suwanee) and an F-car/Scorpion owner too.

>Scott

[davidb]

GT4's not fast? 0-60 MPH in 7.8 secs. Standing 1/4 in 16 secs.
Top of 138 MPH. [All stock, "R & T" test figures] Not fast
compared to todays Ferraris granted. Compare those values to
a stock Scorpion. Totally different car I know. I'm going off
Lancia topic here . . .

[Itsa Scorpion]

Do you know Jeff Davison? He is in Atlanta (Suwanee) and an F-car/Scorpion owner too.

>Scott

Not sure, does he have a gold turbo charged Scorpion? I did meet a guy at last year's car day who had a heavily modified gold Scorpion and also had I think a 328 or 348?

[Scott H]

Not sure, does he have a gold turbo charged Scorpion? I did meet a guy at last year's car day who had a heavily modified gold Scorpion and also had I think a 328 or 348?

That's him.

[HF Stinger]

Mark, did you get your car from Tennessee about a month and a half ago? If so , I hate your guts ;o} If not it's all good.

Im getting mine delivered today from CA and I will be interested in the same opinions about wheels soon enough.

I have been looking at VW wheels since there are just SO many out there to chose from. The biggest concern is the different offsets (much like putting 14" beta rims on a Scorpion). The other concern is the pattern is 4x100 not 4x98. The two popular ways are to get a set of 'wobble lugs' which make up the 1mm difference at the 4 lugs but you must use the proper hub centering ring. What I will likely do is use these:

http://adaptitusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=26

Not only will you get proper hub centric design, you also have accounted for the difference in the offset.

BTW, show us your car!

[Scott H]

Im getting mine delivered today from CA and I will be interested in the same opinions about wheels soon enough.

Sean,

Did you get the "$800 Sacramento" car?

How long have you been Scorpion-less?

>Scott

[lancia_x120]

FWIW, I have a couple of recommendations regarding wheels for the Scorpion:


Weight. Scorpions being light in the front, are very sensitive to unsprung weight. Pay particular attention to not only the wheel weight, but also the tire weight.
Vibration. Likewise, Scorpions are also very sensitive to vibration in the front. If you're using adapters and/or spacers, they should be both hub centric and wheel centric: http://picasaweb.google.com/markjrawlings/1976LanciaScorpionOrange#5318415953354364818
Tire Size. Don't go too big in the front. Again, because the front end is so light, too big of a tire can mess up the steering and handling. I'm running 15x7s up front and 16x8s in back:
http://picasaweb.google.com/markjrawlings/1976LanciaScorpionOrange#5318415981274155058
Tires are 195/50/15 and 205/45/16. Next time I'll use 195/45/15s up front
.

[HF Stinger]

Sean,

How long have you been Scorpion-less?

>Scott

Well, now that you made me count - it been SEVEN yearsssss Good lord I been jones'ing a long time.

I didn't get the Sacramento car, I got one of the cars I looked at in Napa earlier this month. I'll go into more detail in my own thread, it has lots of goodies on it, but needs full cosmetic in and out.

[1,6 HF]

...

Tire Size. Don't go too big in the front. Again, because the front end is so light, too big of a tire can mess up the steering and handling. I'm running 15x7s up front and 16x8s in back...
I hope you'll all simply ignore me if this is an idiotic question, but for a street Scorpion does it really make sense to run wider tires at the rear?

I drove a Scorp only once, and that quite a while back; it had stock wheels/tires and I don't know if the pressures were correct or if the supension settings were spot on (all of which is why the question may be an ignorant one). I ran it through the same tight, twisting section of road that I ran with my X1/9 (which has 6" ATS alloys and 70-series tires of the same size front & rear). I used to rely on the X's lift-throttle oversteer to get it to rotate in tight corners, but when I tried the same with the Scorp the front end just washed out and the usual lift-throttle tricks couldn't get the front to tuck in very well.

Perhaps I just like 'nervous' cars better than over-stable ones, but unless a car is naturally tail-happy (like an early 911, which wasn't tamed until it got wider rears than front), I tend to think that it's counter-productive on a street car, as it tends to exacerbate understeer. Is this not the case with the Scorp?

[Itsa Scorpion]

The car is from North Ga. It actually belongs to the guy's college roommate who moved to Europe about 20 years ago. Up until about 3 years ago, he'd been starting it a couple of times a year but a fuel line rotted that he couldn't get to easily, so he covered and left it..... I'll post some pictures next weekend after I get it picked up and hauled home.

I can't wait!!

[davidb]

For 13" wheels it's 195 front, 205 rear, max, 60 series. W/stock
springs that shows alot of wheelwell. Some object to that. W/
14" or 15" wheels, being taller, that might not be a cosmetic
issue.

[Scott H]

FWIW, I have a couple of recommendations regarding wheels for the Scorpion:

.

Mark,

I sent you a PM.

>Scott

[Will]

I can't see where anybody explicity answered the original Q in this thread but IIRC 58.25mm is the center bore.

[Itsa Scorpion]

Thanks Will!

[HF Stinger]

Since we talked about some modern wheel sizes in this thread I thought I would address some thoughts Im having about tire size too.

I have an opportunity to get some period-correct 14" wheels for my Scorpion. Before I spent the money on them I started looking for tire options, and Im sorta bummed. I figure that the general consensus will be that 60-series tires are either just fine, or the best selection for a 14" combo. I cant get past my preference for a slightly lower profile tire, mainly a 55 series, possibly a 50. In the 50-55 series range of sizes, these tires are as expensive as tires in the 16" range.

Do I settle for 60 series tires, or just pass on the 14" wheels all together and move into a 15" or 16" combo?

[davidb]

I think the limit for 13" & 14" wheels Stinger are 60 series.
15" & 16" I have no idea. A thorough search on this Forum
for Scorp. wheel/tire combos is my suggestion. I know there
has been MUCH discussion re: same.