$800 Scorpion - Sacramento

[lancia_x120]

Not Mine:
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1084599341.html
Went and looked at it. More of a parts car than restoration contender.

[HF Stinger]

Can you give me some details of your opinion? I have been talking to the kid for most of the week about it. He seems to be hee-hawing around about selling it. Does the body look as good in person?

I'd be giving him a sight-unseen offer so your help would be greatly appreciated

[lancia_x120]

Sean -

In my opinion, based on 25 years of Scorpion ownership and restoration of five Scorpions and numerous other Fiats and Lancias, is you'd be better off spending $4-5K on one without so many issues (in order of importance):

Big dent in driver side rocker panel and panel behind door - structural Big PIA
Broken windshield - numerous cracks
Trashed interior - someone sprayed black paint over everything
Doesn't run - can't road test the car
Probable rust under carpet & rear panel - based on loose windows
Holes drilled in engine cover - could be welded
Rust in back side of hood - not to terrible
Front grill broken
Nose panel missing
Rear bumper panel melted beyond repair
Front bumper panel broken
Front sheet metal under nose panel dented up - not too major
Rear tail light panel cracked in several places - can be repaired

Not to say it isn't restorable; just not worth my time or money. Otherwise I would tow it home.

Mark

[DJ]

With all due respect to Mark, he's a California guy and those guys have been known to crush cars that East coasters and UK folks would kill for. ;) I'm sure he can give you an excellent detailed report, though, and his opinion certainly should carry weight. To me it looks like a car easily worth more than the asking price even if it was only parted.

No pics of underneath or engine compartment but the body looks quite solid. The interior has obviously been redone in some manner at some point because it's all black which was not available new. It also appears to have a new windscreen.

I'd say it's probably a good candidate if one wanted to do a total restoration or Monte clone. But not so good if you're looking for a quick and/or easy resto. But for $800 (or less) you could put a lot of money into it and still have a car worth more than you've invested if you did it right.

[lancia_x120]

I'm sure an amateur will by it and learn the hard way; just like I have done numerous times myself:'( My point was, the cost to "fix it up" and put it right will exceed what you can buy a proper car for. Not to say it can't be or shouldn't be restored.
BTW, the engine is bone stock, but isn't running, The interior is stock, except that someone sprayed it black (looks like a paint can exploded inside). The windshield is the original, but is broken in several places.
Mark

[DJ]

Sean -

In my opinion, based on 25 years of Scorpion ownership and restoration of five Scorpions and numerous other Fiats and Lancias, is you'd be better off spending $4-5K on one without so many issues (in order of importance):

Big dent in driver side rocker panel and panel behind door - structural Big PIA
Broken windshield - numerous cracks
Trashed interior - someone sprayed black paint over everything
Doesn't run - can't road test the car
Probable rust under carpet & rear panel - based on loose windows
Holes drilled in engine cover - could be welded
Rust in back side of hood - not to terrible
Front grill broken
Nose panel missing
Rear bumper panel melted beyond repair
Front bumper panel broken
Front sheet metal under nose panel dented up - not too major
Rear tail light panel cracked in several places - can be repaired

Not to say it isn't restorable; just not worth my time or money. Otherwise I would tow it home.

Mark

Great report, Mark. Did you happen to get the VIN? I'd like to make sure it's in the registry.

The pictures obviously don't reveal the body damage adequately. Sounds like it's worse than it looks. Same with the windscreen. No obvious cracks in the pictures that I saw.

FWIW, my car also had loose windows but only had a small amount of minor surface rust under the carpet. It depends on the climate and Sacto's not particularly wet. Hard to say either way without actually pulling the carpet to check, though. But loose windows are definitely not a good sign.

Front nose panel dents likely indicate previous damage so there could be other things lurking under the paint. The fact that it has a replacement windscreen also points to other potential damage.

Regardless, I'd hate to see the car wasted. I can still see where it's possible that $4-5k invested in this car could make it as nice as (or possibly even nicer than) a $4-5k car. Is it likely? Dunno. IMO Mark's a better judge, having seen the car up close. It's easy to sit here at a distance and think such things without actually having seen the car, as Mark has.

[lancia_x120]

Didn't get the VIN, I could call and get it possibly. Believe me, I wanted it to be worth $800. To someone else it probably is. I was only interested in it as a car to put straight and sell. Just wasn't worth my time or money. And I have lots of spare parts:). If someone had a rusted out hulk, it'd be a good candidate for a transplant.
Mark

[DJ]

I'm sure an amateur will by it and learn the hard way; just like I have done numerous times myself:'( My point was, the cost to "fix it up" and put it right will exceed what you can buy a proper car for. Not to say it can't be or shouldn't be restored.

I'm sure you're right if an inexperienced person buys it. I guess what I was trying to say is that an experienced owner could possibly do OK with it. Whether it's worth their time is only for them to say. I'd probably be like you and pass.

The windshield is the original, but is broken in several places.

OK, this point I'll take issue with. I'd almost bet real money that this car has a replacement windscreen. I'd be interested to know what leads to you believe it's original and how you would be sure. Not trying to be argumentative here. Just trying to unravel another one of those little details about these cars. This is something I've been looking at for a long time and I've yet to see an original 1976 Scorpion windscreen with a tinted band at the top. It's possible some '76s had them but I've not seen it yet. Not sure about '77s, though.

None of the brand new Scorpions I've seen had it, my brand new car didn't have it, my current car with original screen doesn't have it, and none of the numerous press photos or marketing materials I've seen show '76 Scorpions with tinted bands in the windscreen. In fact, the ONLY cars/press photos/marketing materials I've seen of cars with tinted bands in the windscreen are RHD UK market Montecarlos.

FWIW, I'm as certain as I possibly can be that my current windscreen is original because:


It still has the original dealer's Dymo tape stock number label in the bottom left corner of the windscreen, which is typical of the period.
The car was sold directly to the second owner, then directly to me without having ever been on another car lot after the original sale by the dealer.
I have what I believe to be complete records on the car.

[HF Stinger]

Mark and DJ, I really appreciate the discussion on the car. I trust your opinions completely. Over the last couple weeks I have looked at 2 cars in NorCal and was considering this one as a third candidate. I have just in the last 2 hours opted for one of the cars in Napa.

The good: 1977, konis/euro springs, dual downdrafts, 40/80 cams, ansa header w/quad tip, early large brake conversion (rear beta rotors w/fr calipers), new in box rear facia, spare 2L engine, spare early pre-EGR head...

The bad: drivers rear quarter panel damage, slight passenger side rear damage, interior needs a complete re-do. There have been some 'enhancements' which I will determine later whether or not I agree with.

All in all, Im buying the car for less than it would cost to buy the above mentioned parts. With the exception of the damage I mentioned the car is remarkably rust free and very straight.

I assure you once I share pics of this car I will become the poster child for the Save-A-Scorpion Foundation.

Mark, your orange car is my inspiration. I hope to see it in person one of these days.

[davidb]

Agree w/D.J. re: windshield glass, tint/no tint. My '76 SIGLA
[Made in W. Germany] is clear. Confident it's original 'cause
it's starting to coming loose @ the top seam! Further there's
been past discussions here representing the replacements had
a tint band.

[lancia_x120]

Well, any Scorpion owner worth his salt can tell an original windshield:) What looks like tint is mylar film.

[DJ]

Well, any Scorpion owner worth his salt can tell an original windshield:) What looks like tint is mylar film.

Well, that makes more sense. If I had looked more closely at the lower edge I might have deduced that. Thanks for the clarification and gentle slap upside the head. :red face:

I have had knowledgeable Scorpion owners argue this point with me, though.

[Brad Smith]

Boy, you guys sure can rub it in. I bought my 77 Scorp #1526 about 3 years ago in non-running condition with an air cleaner bolt stuck between an intake valve and seat and hitting the piston. I knew the windshield was broken due to an installer using the wrong glue on the mirror. I knew it had some extremely serious rust in the battery area (Fred Flintstone car). I also knew that one wiper pivot was broken off and 1 rubber roof strap was broken. It also had bubbles and a pin hole in one door and a pinhole at the top front of the LR qtr panel. I jumped in with both feet because it came with 2 headers, an ANSA 4 tip, an Alquati intake with 2 sets of DCNF's (1 set is NIB)
I trailered it home and started looking for parts, buying a set of CD 1's that I am having mag welded and redrilled in 4x98, a new windshild, Whoa brakes and a bunch of small stuff. Getting my reciprocating stuff back from the machine shop this afternoon. Took 2 1/2 pounds off the flywheel per Guy Croft and had to have the big ends resized-so much for the footprint on these rods, still needed to be redone.
The pictures on craiglist look good compared to what I have. Is the dent in the LR really that structural?
Once I got my car up on the lift I found that both front strut rods are rusted/torn away from the trunk floor and both floorpans are junk. Time to buy stuff from TMH.
I don't mind the drive to trailer this possible project back here. I went to San Francisco a couple years ago to trailer a 79 Beta coupe parts car and am taking the heater core out of it at this moment since my VGC 79 coupe sprung a leak.

[Brad Smith]

Got an email back from the kid in Sacremento and he sold the $800 76 Scorpion. Hopefully it will show up with someone driving it, or it might show up as parts in ebay...