Beta center muffler

[Charley]

My friend owns a 1982 Beta Zagato that we are working on after long term storage and needs a center muffler. I can't seem to find one at any of the usual vendors. A new muffler is preferred but a good used one would also be considered. Thanks!
Charley

[Jim Keller]

May I recommend going to a mom-pop muffler shop and having a bullet type glass pack installed, as long as it has the rear resonator and the cat, it will sound nice, not obnoxious. I have the cat, straight thru bullet glass pack then the ANSA twin tip resonator/muffler, it's actually pretty quite till ya wind it up. I paid $75 for muffler, custom bent pipes, hangers and labor, (already had the ANSA on it), and they weld them on, no clamps. Do not bother with any of the chain muffler shops, I have found for the most part, (I am sure you may find a rare exception), they do not know how to frabricate exhausts, they deal in pre-bent stuff only

Oh, and the new set up weighs about 20 pounds less than the stock muffler and pipes! ha ha

[Charley]

Thanks Jim,
That is actually our "plan B" if we can't source a replacement. I know of a shop that does nice work.They fabricated complete dual exhaust for my 1971 Chrysler Custom Coupe a few years back. He didn't have the pattern parameters for the system either.

[DJ]

My friend owns a 1982 Beta Zagato that we are working on after long term storage and needs a center muffler. I can't seem to find one at any of the usual vendors. A new muffler is preferred but a good used one would also be considered. Thanks!
Charley

I believe that this one (http://search.ebay.com/270362434907) would work wouldn't it?

[Jim Keller]

Not sure if this is what DJ is pointing you to, but I just went to eBay and there is a brand new ANSA center section and twin tip muffler, bit pricy, but new

[Charley]

I believe that this one (http://search.ebay.com/270362434907) would work wouldn't it?

Yes it would. Thanks DJ. ! I will send my buddy the link. :)

[Charley]

Not sure if this is what DJ is pointing you to, but I just went to eBay and there is a brand new ANSA center section and twin tip muffler, bit pricy, but new

They are both offered by the same seller.I sent the link to my buddy and I bet my buddy will bid on both. I bought an Ansa twin tip rear muffler on evilbay a few years back and paid like $400 for it. :eek: It will be interesting to see the final selling prices these will bring ! ;)
Kinda makes you wonder if the seller is watching the Lancisti classified because you hardly EVER see those two items offered.

[davidb]

Cautionary note [s] here. I believe [ANSA] Coupe & Zag center
sections are NOT the same. Sedan ctr. sections will fit by
re-welding the cat. flange to the new unit & slightly re-bending
one of the curves. Bruce had new ANSA Sedan "hockey sticks"
back when. This is what I did w/a CISAM resonator from Di Fatta.
ANSA resonators do not fit Zags well. On my 1ST '81 Coupe it was
a good fit. On my 1ST '82 Zag it hung much lower & wiggled around
much more than on the Coupe. Adjusting the hangers was futile.
Jim's had more experience than me. These have been mine. I've put
put 4 full ANSA systems on over the yrs.: Sedan, Coupe & 2 Zags
so this not pure conjecture on my part. Critique [s] welcome.

[Jim Keller]

All underpinnings are the same for Zag and Coupe David, the exhausts are identical.

Your right on the Sedan, you just have to do the cat flange, Bruce may still have stock centers for Sedans, I haven't heard from him in a while though so I am not sure what he's doing these days with Lancia stuff, he was heading for retirement and cutting out a lot of Lancia and other make stuff

[davidb]

Well I beg to differ on the ctr. section issue but I'm likely wrong,
it's been years. IIRC the cat. position on the Zag's passenger floor
[pan] is much more raised/intrursive than on a Coupe. Fairly con-
fident floor pans were different Coupe to Zag back when. Hmmm?
We're still talking '81 Coupe to '81-'82 LBZ w/cat. here. Enough
dissection. I merely wished to spare that guy buying all that E-Bay
ANSA stuff & NOT have them fit. As for Bruce, last few Lancia items
I've bought from him? Resembled "close-out" prices. V. reasonable
IMHO. We bicker/agree on this forum, advise & keep working on ours.
Let's all keep working on our Betas! USA-side Spring is coming soon.

[DJ]

Fairly confident floor pans were different Coupe to Zag back when. Hmmm? We're still talking '81 Coupe to '81-'82 LBZ w/cat. here.

I don't see how. AFAIK, the Zagato/Spider is nothing more than a Coupe with body mods by Zagato and it wasn't a different car built from scratch. Could be wrong but I can't see why they would modify anything like that underneath and I've never heard that anywhere else. But I'm certainly not the end-all for Beta knowledge. Just a parrot repeating what I've heard/read.

To my knowledge, the only real differences were in the Sedans and HPEs.

[davidb]

Said been yrs., implied uncertain. Yes Zagatos only vary body-
wise halfway toward the back. Yes I know HPEs & Sedans share
components neither any Coupe nor LBZs did. I assume I based my
posts upon speculative, incorrect knowledge. I apologize to Jim,
D.J. & the entire community proper. Caveat emptor anything I
say in the future. Perfect I ain't, neither are these damn cars.

[DJ]

Said been yrs., implied uncertain. Yes Zagatos only vary body-
wise halfway toward the back. Yes I know HPEs & Sedans share
components neither any Coupe nor LBZs did. I assume I based my
posts upon speculative, incorrect knowledge.

Perhaps not, David. I'm just trying to learn here myself. You could be correct.

[davidb]

No acrimony intended. I base my posts on what I believe to be true
via my experience. I freely admit I am no Jim Keller in any manner,
sense nor form vis-a-vis Betas. Plunging into two re-furbs @ the
same time 3+ yrs. ago, the '82 LBZ & the '76 Scorp, has stretched
my check book & patience to the limit. Imprudent choice. Enough ...

[DJ]

Well, David, having gone from stock 32 DATRA carb to 34 DATRA, to dual DCNFs, to Beta FI, back to dual DCNFs, then to Megasquirt, I'm certainly not one who should comment upon (or attempt to define/identify) imprudence. :red face:

[Jim Keller]

IIRC the cat. position on the Zag's passenger floor
[pan] is much more raised/intrursive than on a Coupe. Fairly con-
fident floor pans were different Coupe to Zag back when.

Nope! they are exactly the same. Difference is all on the sheet metal above the floor pans, but only rear quarters, trunk lid, rear light facia, roof, door window "frames', (doors are the same), and the rocker panels are doubled on Zagato/Spider causing them to bump the bottom of the front fenders to match on Zagato/Spider, front fenders will cross but you have to modify the bottom to match the models rockers your working on.

Don't worry David, I just got corrected on my short shifter plan! ha ha, I gotta quit engineeering things drunk! LOL

[len_newstrum]

This is somewhat tangential to the subject, which seems to be catalytic converter equipped cars; but might be of some use to those with non-cat Betas.

I recently put a brand new HPE Ansa system on my '78 coupe. I had purchased it as part of a van-load of "stuff" (much NOS) for $200. :cheers: It was a near perfect fit after trimming a few inches off of the center section inlet pipe. The rear muffler extension may protrude a couple of inches further from the bumper, but I'm not sure. On a non-US car they would be obtrusive.

I'm considering putting one of the braided stainless steel flexible couplings (about US $50) in between the headers and the center muffler to reduce the effects of engine rocking on the exhaust system. Has anybody done this?

Len

[Brad Smith]

If you are still looking for the center muffler I have this one sitting up in the rafters as a spare that I got w/an 81 Beta coupe that used to belong to Val D. I have a header w/ larger pipe connected w/ a braided flex-joint and have an ANSA 124 muffler out back on my 79 coupe so I don't need this one. It is new but has obviously been kicking around for awhile as reflected by the ugly gray primer covering the surface rust. I havn't check shipping from out here in Seattle Wa back to you the east coast. Send me a PM if you might be able to use it.




http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/betamuffler.jpg

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/betamuffler1-1.jpg

[Jim Keller]

I recomend using the Honda braided flex joint, I hear tell theirs is the best on the market. That said, I put to rest a 98 Ford Windstar last summer with 200K salt belt Ohio miles on it and the originals on it were still fine........................I highly recommend the idea Len

How about some photos and specifics on your setup Brad?

[Charley]

Hi Brad,
PM sent!

[Brad Smith]

I will try and get some photos in a couple of days. I have to have my other half help load the photos as I am kinda lame on computers, other than typing anyway. I also have cars up on all my lifts and am trying to finish up a Bronco engine swap from a 351M to 429. I have a flex joint sitting on a box that I plan on using on my Scorpion between the header and the quad tip ANSA, hoping to splice it into the pipe as it crosses above the muffler so that I don't have to leave the 3 bolt joint loose as recommended. I got a generic 2 1/4" diameter braided flex pipe from Summit.
I have to push my car onto the lift as I have the dash, and then some ripped out while I put a heater core in it. :eek:

[Jim Keller]

I just went thru a dash swap/heater box rebuild/wiring repair/speedo upgrade etc myself......UGH!......still and heck of a lot easier than a Mustang! Watch the heater control wires, I got mine plugged in wrong and it caused constant power to the blower motor if you turned on the heater until you disconnected the battery, key on or off!.......just two wires! LOL

If you look back in the Beta threads to last spring, you'll see threads and photos of it, I don't have those uploaded in my photo album of the Coupe

The only thing about using a racing style parts is I tend to shy away from them on my street cars, reason being, they are generally not built for longevity but instead, weight savings, so you have to watch out for durability, I'm not saying race parts are all bad at all, many are heavier duty than stock, but many are not, you do have to be careful if you dont' want something your going to have to address frequently. I see stupid little things, (oil/water fittings, electrical connectors/wires/componants, suspension pieces etc...), sidelining friends at the track all the time

Bronco sounds fun, that's something I could use around here!

[Brad Smith]

Ok, included are photos of my Beta coupe exhaust which consists of a header w/ 2" length 2 1/4" flex joint right beyond the collector flange. Then after the generic cat I have 2 1/4" pipe all the way back to my Fiat 124 Ansa muffler which clears everything under the car just fine including the 205 65 BFG Touring TA's and the factory tie downs which I still have on the car. I included a photo of the generic Summit flex-joint for my Scorpion which is 14" OAL while the flex-joint itself is 9 1/4" for 2 1/4" pipe. The heat shield I made is 11 3/4" x 13" w/a notch at the bellcrank. I had to rivit a small piece of aluminum flatbar onto the corner which I attached to the bellcrank mount. I was able to attach the bottom of the sheet metal shield to the crossmember which already had rivnuts in it for something else that was missing already. I had to put a small dimple in the shield to clear the shifter side of the bellcrank and everything clears fine. I decided to follow everyone's advice after replacing my bushings with some I bought from Vick down in Texas and add/make the shield. I powder coated the whole nine yards before putting it on while Val Danilov was pressure checking another PS rack for me which I installed at the same time. The torn boots on the old ZF rack were making a mess under there....

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/flexjoint8.jpg

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/flexjoint1.jpg

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/flexjoint7.jpg

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/flexjoint.jpg

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/acidrock429/muffler/flexjoint4.jpg