montecarlo engine

[montecarlo]

can anyone supply photos of a montecarlo engine i am trying to put one back together and i have one large wiring loom separate from the car and various electrical items relays wires and lots of pipes to assemble and even with the manuals and wiring diagrams i do not know where to start and some pictures would help at least to show me where things go
anyone out there can help i would be very gratefull
thanks steve

[Wallace]

Hate to say it - but buy a workshop manual from Chad at the Montehospital. Or if you're really strapped for cash - try a second hand Haynes manual for the Lancia Beta (autojumble, e-bay etc).. Engine and box are pretty much the same internally - although the minor details like engine mounts, gear linkage etc are different.

[montecarlo]

thanks for that i have bought both the manuals the one with the lancia parts list and chads manual the problem is i have a montecarlo with a volumex engine fitted and none of the manuals cover the volumnex engine i also have a beta haynes manual but this does not cover the montecarlo

[Hamish]

I'm inclined to say you've come to the right place :!: Plenty of Monte/Scorp owners here and plenty of VX owners past and present to help, so what do you need to know :?:
First thing I'd point out is that the loom for the VX and IE betas are quite different to to the earlier cars and, I believe, the Monte..... so to an extent it'll be cut'n'hope :roll:
Anyway, what's worst at the moment :?:

[montecarlo]

thanks for the reply i have a vx engine fitted but none of the oil/ coolant pipes are fitted i also have a load of parts that are to go into the engine bay but no idea where the go they do not line up with any holes or bolts that are already there i believe that i have beta parts as well i also have a loom about twenty feet long not atached to anything having looked at a beta in a scrap yard it looks like it came from a beta? i need to maybe look at a real picture of a montecarlo engine to see where these part should fit that may give me a clue the loom i also have has been chopped of one end and there is no where that it could possibly join on i also hace a bank of two relays and two fuses to fit somewhere they are not the ones from the front they are all there but i also have two relay conectors fitted too the engine compartment already even though they are just hanging not on a plate or anything i just need some idea of where bits could or should go so any help will be gratefully recieved the engine area has also been modified
thanks steve

[Hamish]

Sounds like you've got a Beta loom there alright :wink: Are there round multi-plug connectors in profusion:?:
In truth, it shouldn't be too hard if most of the Monte loom is 'there' as they all do pretty much the same job. The VX engine has a few more senders that require feeds, but you'll get away without some of them.
You will need the oil cooler though 8O as VX engines run pretty hot. Make sure you get a baffled sump in that engine as well.... it might cost you a bit to have it made (or make it yourself if you're handy :!:) but it will save you a bigger bill later on 8) .
A key thing for the 'Beta' loom is that the round multi-plugs go to the 'bottom' of the engine so a process of elimination will give you an idea of what should go where. I don't suppose that Lancia changed the wiring colours across the models that much, so you have some fortune in that regard.
This Monte you have, wouldn't be red by any chance :?:

[montecarlo]

yes
i have posted a picture

[chrisc]

And if you are needing an oil cooler, check out my listing on ebay. The oil cooler from my vx was one of the best condition bits of kit to come out of the car.

Those extra relays will be your doom. They were a bit of a continual problem source for my vx anyway.

[Hamish]

yes
i have posted a picture

Didn't come off eBay by any chance :?:

[montecarlo]

no it ts not off e bay i dont trust to many cars off e bay
it is a montecarlo spider fully restored just needs putting back together
in areas like the engine

[chrisc]

Sure? there was one that matches that description that was sold on ebay not too long ago, it was in reading at the time... small paint problem on the lhs rear flank if i remember...

[Paul Dempsey]

If you leave your email address I have a lovely picture of my engine with out the head on if it's any good to you, cheers Paul

[Hamish]

fully restored just needs putting back together
in areas like the engine

I have some "issues" here.... the Monte and VX engines, whilst similar in appearance, are very different..... If it's the VX engine that's been fitted then you have problems, I'm lead to believe that there are mountings on the Monte engine which the standard Beta engines don't have.
If the engine has been built up from the Monte block with VX internals and a hybrid VX/monte head then you should be OK - if the latter is true then you might as well throw away the VX loom and use a standard Monte loom.

Will should be able to point you in the right direction, he seems to have built more weird and wonderful Monte(Scorpion) hybrids than anyone else I know :!:

[Tom McGaffigan]

I have installed a 2 liter Volumex in my Lancia Scorpion (now has Monte valances and other mods) and changing of the wiring is not required. Keep the standard Monte wiring, sump, cam towers, distributor, oil pump etc. I hope your Volumex is from a Beta Volumex and not a Trevi VX or Argenta VX as the casting that holds the oil filter, alternator and bottom of the supercharger is different for those models. You did not say if the engine had actually been in the car before but if not, you will need to make some mods to make it fit as the factory Beta Volumex carb will not clear the firewall without changes. All the addditonal plumbing on the Volumex, fuel vapor extraction, miles of vacuum lines etc can be removed and the ports at the supercharger plugged. David Beal in the UK may be able to help you out as he has installed a Volumex in a Monte also.
Tom McGaffigan
California, USA
1977 Lancia Scorpion
1977 Lancia Scorpion Volumex, supercharged since 1989
:D :twisted:

[montecarlo]

thanks that would be really usefull
my e mail addres is lyons.pride@ntlworld.com

[Will]

Hamish overcompliments me, "building" would be the operative word, Tom's certainly way ahead of me on the basis that his car is done already!
(Thanks anyway, Hamish!)

And of course I can't find the time lately....

Anyway, if you are setting this up initially, you want to investigate whether the lower bracket/ oil filter assembly will FIT in the car, and clear the crossmember. I think the Beta fits, as Tom pointed out, the ones for the vertical-engined cars, like the 131 I have, do not, and it's caused a major headache.

The block mounting problems that Hamish mentioned are easily solved. In the case of the Beta block going into a Monte/Scorp, there's a mount on the exhaust side by #1 cylinder that secures part of the engine mounting bracket which must be cut down, and the hole in it tapped a bit deeper. The FIAT blocks are very soft, and tap like butter.
In the case of a vertical engine block, i.e. 131 going into a Scorp/Monte, there is a mounting ear very low on the exhaust side near #1 cylinder that will pass very very close to the drive shaft. I don't think it will actually hit it, but it will be close enough that you may want to cut it off. Then you can proceed to mount the motor in the standard fashion without extra drama.

As TOM also pointed out, the vapor extraction pump is extraneous. The bigger ABARTH blowers have no such provision.

A great number of those hoses are for a single purpose- warming the intake between the blower and carb to prevent fuel puddling. If you can do without this feature, it simplifies things enormously. The stoch system uses a thermovalve at the base of the carb which controls vacuum to a vacuum-actuated valve which in turn controls coolant flow to the mani. Unless you live in a cold climate, you can rip ALL this stuff out and bypass it, saving endless hours of plumbing.

AFAIK, wiring should be pretty much standard spec, the oil pressure switch, etc. may be in slightly different position based on which donor the motor came from, but it should all be fairly straightforward.

All the volumexes and larger ABARTH units I've come across use a thermostatic sandwich adaptor on the oil filter to feed a small external oil cooler.

Good luck!
-Will

[andybeta]

How do you get the volumex engine in under the bulkhead? I've a volumex with standard supercharger that will run off a Weber 45 sidedraught. Whilst this will fit in a coupe/hpe, it will not in a Monte? I might be missing something, I'm sure I am, but can anyone sat how they've done it - Dave or Stan? I guess one needs a different anlged inlet for carb into supercharger and can really only use a down draught I'm not sure having not seen a supercharged engine in a Monte yet.

thanks,

Andybeta

[Hamish]

I've seen pictures of this somewhere - maybe here in someones gallery pages :?:
Seem to remember it was a 40 DCNF carb on a standard manifold (therefore the OE set up from a VX should fit into the Monte :?: :?: ).

I remember the one on eBay (last year :?: ) had the engine in place but the installation was incomplete, maybe I'm thinking of that - I'm sure the carb was in place, but it looked like a tight fit in there.

[Will]

....that's the trick- getting the carb to fit. You have a couple of options:

a) Make up adapters starting just behind the supercharger and another in front to kick the carbs below the stock package shelf for a DCOE(what Tom did).

b) Make a tight double-radius inlet manifold that drops below the package shelf for a DCOE (what Dave did).

c) Making a manifold that comes around over the transmission to use a DCOE pointing rearward (haven't seen this yet)

d) do some cutting of the firewall and package shelf to allow a DCOE (not so pretty)

e) move to fuel injection (really good idea, where I will eventually be going)

-Will

[Wallace]

Or perhaps make up a different mount for the blower that sits it further down Then use a standard EFI plenum chamber and runners, could even find space to fit an intercooler if thought worthwhile .. .

[Will]

Good idea Wallace, except with one caveat: If you move the blower down, you lose the only location left for your alternator, since the alt can't go on the exhaust side. So then you need to add a jackshaft, drive off the cam, relocate the alternator 180 degrees into the brake booster pocket, or some other scheme. Also, once you have to start making up custom manifolds, there are better choices for a supercharger than a volumex.
If I were going all custom, I would probably opt for a Powerdyne blower because of its compact size.
-Will

[Wallace]

Well- yes - - if you're going to add a blower - not specifically a volumex - then you might as well go for a more effecient unit (like a Sprintex).