Throw in the towel?

[Randy Brown]

It's been quite a long time since I have posted anything here, mostly because it's rather depressing reading posts dealing with keeping your cars running when I have NEVER EVEN DRIVEN mine. I picked up #221 and began a ground-up restoration in the October before my youngest son was born. He celebrates his NINTH birthday this month.

Every trip to the garage is brutal. She is always there, silently taunting me. I have done everything for her that I can - lastly it was a complete set of fiberglas door and interior cards from TMH, complete with new upholstery. But, there is always that next problem. That nagging issue that will not quickly or completely resolve. First it was the gas tank that had a crease in the metal and needed reshaping and resoldering. Then it was the top hold-down catches that I had to fabricate. Then the entire wiring harness had to come out to have every connector replaced and the entire length re-wrapped in 3M Super 88. Then the dash that crumbled in my hands, God help me. Now, its the latest problem.

The interior is upholstered. The carpet is ready. The wiring is reinstalled. The windscreen is ready to go in. All but for one more demand she has put upon me: the interior windscreen trim.

Yes, the two gray plastic channels that go around the interior of the windscreen. They are plastic. They are in pieces. They are not salvageable.

This may be the final insult I can tolerate. I have looked far, but cannot find them. I have found substitutions, but they do not look befitting. I have looked into fabricating replacements, but after the dash re-creation debacle, my strength and enthusiasm for such a project has been sapped.

So, this may be the sign that the end is near. I am losing the desire. I don't know if I can go on. The effort, not to mention the funds, has been enormous. But - I just don't know. This nearly decade-long project may come to an end because of two unobtainable pieces of plastic.

P.S. I have uploaded the entirety of photos relating to #221 here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15055374@N04/sets/72157614316539148/

Perhaps that will be her photographic eulogy. I am done.

[DJ]

NOOOOOoooo!!! You're that close and NOW you're gonna give up? :confused:

Your only problem is that you have a serious case of "DJ-retentiveitis". In fact, you're obviously even worse than I am. Maybe we should call it "RandyBrownitis". :)

That has got to be the best and most comprehensive restoration ever done on a Scorpion.

I've no idea what those pieces of plastic look like but there some out there somewhere. I guarantee it. Got any pictures or a more detail description of exactly what they are and look like? Dimensions? Could they be fabricated in short lengths in a rapid prototype machine (modern ABS plastic)? I have access to one and would only need a good 3D CAD file to work with.

BTW, you should make more of those dashes. They would sell well.

Also, what's the status of #424? Sean McClane was just looking for some rear wings and those look to be in good condition in the few pictures you have there. Here's the link (http://lancisti.net/forum/showthread.php?p=18095#post18095) to his recent post.

Alternately, he's been looking to buy another Scorpion for some time so if you're absolutely dead set on quitting the business, he might be a good prospect if you could come to agreement on things. But I'd be sincerely saddened to see you quit now.

Don't let us get you down. Most of us are always griping and tinkering this time of year anyway. Except for Will, of course. He gripes and tinkers year-round. ;)

My car will actually be road-ready again with just a few more days worth of work. I'm just taking advantage of the cold weather to make several improvements and repairs that I've been putting off. Now I'm just waiting for proper electrical multi-connector housings to arrive from the UK to complete the wiring. I was proceeding using Weatherpak connectors but it got messy really quickly with all those wires coming from 3 different directions.

This summer will be Lucia's best yet with a brand new NOS VX gearbox and a new Megasquirt FI to help her deal with the thin air here in Colorado. Might even win me some more of those bowling trophies. :rolleyes:

Here's one vote for NOT giving up. You've got a beautiful car and have done some awesome "above and beyond" work to get her where she is today.

[DJ]

On the other hand, I'll give you a couple hundred bucks for the old hulk and come drag her off quickly... :twisted:

Wish I had those headlights.

[HF Stinger]

Randy, I can't begin to tell you how envious of your project I am.

I went through a very intense project last spring. It was different from yours in a way that I had a time frame and gave 110% until the night before I was scheduled to drive the car to Colorado for a 25th anniversary gathering of the UrQuattro. I ran up against so many brick walls in the 5 months I gave myself to complete my list. There were also times when I confronted my buddies on the internet for support along the way, be it a shoulder to cry on or a kick in the ass. I got the car done and drove it round trip 1400 miles over that weekend.

Im going to put a link to a post that really drew alot of support and ideas from the guys on the particular site where I tracked my progress.

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24021&highlight=pcb

Forgive me DJ for directing away from Lancisti. I felt this was relative to what Randy was up against.

On the other hand, Randy, please give me the opportunity to finish that car for you if it proves beyond your interests at this point. I want another white 77 worse than you can imagine.

[DJ]

I want another white 77 worse than you can imagine.

Pssst! Sean! It's not really a '77 (#221). But PLEASE don't let that stop you.

[HF Stinger]

I realized that by the # but I saw the blackouts for the buttresses'sess

[SubGothius]

Holy cow. That Scorpicarlo porn was enthralling! :D

The job you've done so far is frankly incredible; I'm deeply envious of the results, if not of the blood, sweat and tears you've obviously sacrificed to get there. You can't give up now! You just have to know you'll kick yourself in hindsight if you do, no matter how frustrated and fed-up you may feel right now. Keep your eyes on the prize, imagine yourself driving and admiring the finished product, let that motivate you!

Just... wow. 8)

[Darren]

Hi Randy,

Don't give it up at this stage chap - you're home free! I know what you mean about long term projects - I had my car for over 12 years before I actaully got to drive it and I can tell you without shadow of a doubt, all of the work, time, effort and cuts where worth it! I got my car on the road again for the first time this year last weekend and it's instant smiles when you're driving and I have still yet to come across a car that does that for me each and every time I drive it!

You're so close and looking at the photos you've done a first class job! You WILL regret it if you get rid now and moreso if you see someone else enjoying all your hard work!!

I'm pretty sure I have the trim you're looking for in black, which you're welcome to for the cost of postage. Let me know

Cheers

[davidb]

Easy for any of us to say keep @ it. A bare bone restoration would
burn me out too. You're obviously incredibly thorough & particular.
So getting to the end & wanting it perfect then not finding new bits
to finish her off would incline me to think similiarly: if I can't make
it perfect then it goes bye-bye. I've often reached the point where
I've had to back off my perfectionism & compromise a little. As in:
I'll just finish what I can for now & wait for a trim piece to appear
in the future and/or the goal is to make her presentable & driveable
[for now]. I also sometimes tell myself: "It's time to stop the $$$$,
you've aleady got 2 - 3+ times in it more than it's worth, get it to-
gether & on the road". I have been concurrently restoreing an '82
Zag & '76 Scorp. 38 months and untold money. God knows when
I'll finish. You'd be surprised what parts you thought were NLA pop
up over time. The Lancia Fates do smile on us over time. I've had
friends view my examples & are astounded they remain on jackstands
after this long. But they know I'm a perfectionist, yet willing to com-
promise when push comes to shove. Some people never really finish.
D.J. has gone from [no order] a stock engine to 2 ltr. w/injection,
then DCNF now MegaSquirt. Plus a gearbox change, interior panels,
etc. In summation [you saw this coming] I say finish it. That said you
do have interested parties here. Good luck !

[sprintcarfan]

I'm restoring an original east coast car (#921) with a bad rust problem, but not surprisingly the interior is completely intact, nothing brittle/broken, especially the trim you are talking about. There has to be literally several Scorpions in on the east coast or in Canada that have terminal rust yet good interior parts.

[John O]

I am done.

Then, let this be your liberation. You can let your dream car go and finish building the Scorpion you're going to drive while looking for the rest of the parts you need.

The best advice I every received from anyone regarding vintage cars and our (my) willingness to allow little things to get in the way of enjoyment was from a friend of mine (Turbo Spider owner) who said to me, after I was getting freakish about getting all the accumulated condensation out of my 124 Coupe's instruments ..."Just drive it".

Perfect. Just drive it.

I'm gonna play motivational coach here for a minute.

So Randy, are a couple little trim pieces really standing in the way of you driving your car? I doubt it.

Prioritize. Put everything which gets you a running/driving car at the top of the list. Everything which is a finishing bit which gets you your dream car, but has nothing to do with running/drivng, goes to the bottom.

Once you drive your imperfect car, and get some basic gratification from it, your motivation will return.

Get to work.

John O.

[Darren]

What he said!:D

[Randy Brown]

I guess I was in a bit of a pique when I posted my screed, but the continual frustration of seeing the unfinished beast day after day finally reached my tipping point. That windscreen trim just happened to be the latest of a long series of frustrations.



So Randy, are a couple little trim pieces really standing in the way of you driving your car? I doubt it.


As I see it, I can't really drive her without a windscreen, and before I can install the windscreen I'm pretty sure that these notorious trim pieces need to be installed. Since I have not had the opportunity to inspect a car with these pieces intact, my suspicion is that the process of installing the windscreen is apt to get adhesive on the pieces, or at least pinch them so tightly that installation of them after the fact is impossible. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, thanks to everyone for their encouragement. It does all come down to motivation.

[1,6 HF]

Just drive it.

...Once you drive your imperfect car, and get some basic gratification from it, your motivation will return.

Or not. If I were doing a complete restoration of my HF, I'd sort all the wiring under the dash, returning it to perfect original condition (except with added tags), and routing it neatly and precisely. But, personally, I find the motivation to drive is much stronger than the motivation to re-route wiring. I drive the thing 5000 miles a year--it's a car, not a taxidermy project.

The perfect is the enemy of the drive.

To sort the wiring now, I'd have to stop driving it for weeks--I get antsy if I go for more than 3 or 4 days without taking it out. So, I'll agree with the main point--do what it takes to get on the road and drive it--and then sort out whatever seems to make sense as you go.

[John O]

...before I can install the windscreen I'm pretty sure that these notorious trim pieces need to be installed. ...Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am pretty sure that the windshield only makes contact with it's adhesive, and the adhesive only makes contact with the bodywork. Conversely, I think you can completely gut the interior without taking the glass out. Even if I'm wrong, it doesn't matter anymore if you've concluded the missing pieces can't be found. Move on and come up with something else that works even if it's a compromise.

John O.

[John O]

The perfect is the enemy of the drive.

I often say to my theatre students, "perfect is the enemy of done" ...which is not so different that what my old drafting teacher used to say, "done is beautiful".



I'll agree with the main point--do what it takes to get on the road and drive it--and then sort out whatever seems to make sense as you go.

That's the essence of it.

I've read some people who write that they get all of their enjoyment from wrenching, but I can't believe that takes you all the way to a finished car. There has to be joy and defeat as a car unfolds, with hopefully more joy in the balance, and how do you get either of those if it's just sitting the garage? When my son restored his MGB-GT, he was VERY smart about it; it was completely drivable throughout ...and as he retrimmed the car after it came back from the bodyshop, he'd run it by the house every weekend to show off his progress. At first the car seemed half naked, but he drove it with pride anyway. An interesting effect of that was I felt compelled to keep moving on the Scorp so I'd have something new to show him too.

John O.

[Randy Brown]

Pssst! Sean! It's not really a '77 (#221). But PLEASE don't let that stop you.

Yes, it is really a '76 that the P.O. hacked '77 buttresses to. But it would be more work to change them back, and I'm not going for "original."

[Sebastian]

Good day Randy,

I am the owner of #106 since 2004. I had the car up on stands for one year and went over the whole car just to fix the issues that had accumulated over the years. I did not do a ground up restoration like you did. That is quite an undertaking. It took me a whole year to get her road ready. I remember that the following spring I just could not wait to take her for a long ride. It was very tempting to do such a maticuolous job in everything I did to that car. I had the same issue that you had with the interior surface rust. I took the entire interior out and took care of the driver side floor rust issue and the entire inside where needed. I took the approach if it is not proken do not take it apart. I replaced the Cluth and Brake master cylinder as they were leaking. I washed the entire floor covering myself and put everything back after I insulated the entire inside cabin with duct insulation for sound and temp barrier.
You have done an excellent job in a ground up restoration project. I would have to say that from time to time you will have feeling that this project is not getting completed. But in reality it is getting completed and the car looks fantastic. I don't know where you live but If you live in the Boston Area, I would for sure give you a hand some saturdays have a few beers, while getting her put back together.

Someone that has a parts car must have what you are looking for, or there has to be a way to make new once. I have bought parts for mycar at the local bycicle shop (accelerator cable) and all the insulation and plastic fittings at my local home Depot store. You be surpriced what you can find or modify to suite your needs.

Good luck my friend and my vote would be to finish the restoration, get a local "Lancia, Fiat, Alfa" buddy to give you a hand and make working on her fun again.
Sebastian

[OperaHawk]

Randy:

If you ever venture on the Beta forum, you can find a lot of posts from yours truly threatening to give up - and my parts are a lot easier to find than yours, from what I've read! ;)

But MAN, have you done a fantastic job - I'm not a Scorpiocarlo guy, but I visibly drooled over your pics on Flicker. This will be a glorious example of the marque when you're finished. It's great now! And it'll look sooooooo good driving around the streets of Cedar Rapids, Iowa City and the reservoir (I'm originally from Coralville).

I can't agree more with those who say you will stay with it as soon as you can drive it. Fenice is no where perfect, but I have a lot of pride when I drive her. I've learned that there's always something more to do, some piece we don't have or can't find. Get it on the road and work from there.

Hang in there!

SBJ

[Scorpionista]

I know the feeling of losing inspiration on a project, but don't be rash. You've spent a lot of time, energy and money getting the car to this point. Don't let minor setbacks derail you.

Sometimes I have found it's best to just let it sit for awhile to get some perspective. We car guys can get a little/lot obsessive!

I agree, getting it on the road and enjoying it will be a big boost of satisfaction. You can gather the rest of the parts as you keep searching for them.

We sometimes let perfection be our worst enemy. You are doing this because you enjoy it.

Keep up the faith!

[Vinnie]

Hi there,
My restoration took 18 years; yes no joke, 18 years.
I had the getting married, having three children and renovating a house thrown into the mix.
Include starting a new business and that pretty much sums it up.
But in the end I got the car to a level where it could be registered and driven again.
It still needs to be run in, but it is a special feeling driving it after all that time and having so many people admire the car and ask me what it is.
I too still have a couple of pieces of trim that need to be fixed, but as someone else has suggested, that doesn't stop the car from running.
The restoration and the photos you have taken are fantastic.
Keep up the good work and hang in there.
Regards,
Stephen

[Randy Brown]

Status update: After our tiff of a year or so ago, #221 and I have kissed and made up. She felt ignored for too long, and I think she'll be fine as long as I dote on her often. I just stripped, painted, and sealed her gas tank, so that should count for something. We have an agreement that I can drive (and even work on - but not too much) other Italian autos if I feel the need, until she is fully back in good form and roadworthy.

I'm not entirely sure what happened back then, but I'm putting it down to having my original account, from when #221 and I first met, deleted on this board. I was reactivated and apparently possessed by some evil spirit.

- Randy (member #666) >:D

[HF Stinger]

That's some great news, glad to hear you have come to terms with her.

I have been in lurker-mode lately as well. The garage temps in Vegas have been prohibitive to getting anything done until this week. I hope I don't upset my Italian mistress by working on her German counterpart, the German is on a strict timeline for a big event...

I'm very anxious to get back to work on my gold car, so many cool parts are gathered in the garage I can't wait ;O}

BTW, I scored those love-em-or-leave-em 037 bumpers that were posted here a week or so ago. I had wanted a set of these since way back when Rodger was still churning them out...

Keep some momentum and show us pics along the way, the positive comments from the group really helps keep you going...

[Darren]

Hi Randy,

Damned glad to hear you're back in the saddle again with #221. Keep pushing and you'll get there - a little and often makes more progress than isolated weekends of wrenching. I'm still learning about smart working having only just put the car back on the road after completing a few 'simple' jobs like FI and oil cooling!! First run out last weekend and I had a smile on my face for the whole day! Can't wait to get out there again this weekend, and maybe a little play one evening this week.

Keep going and keep those pics coming!

Cheers

Darren

[Randy Brown]

Darren and Sean - thanks for the support. I think the black period has ended.

I would love to post some photos if I could figure out how the gallery works.

- Randy

[Darren]

No probs - setting up a folder is pretty straightforwad I think - you'll probably need to register again on that page - or maybe DJ can set you up with one?

Cheers

Darren

[Fingers]

Quality takes time.

That's what I keep telling myself, and I've been battling away at the Fulvia on and off for (only) four years, I don't feel so bad now. Keep at it, imagine how good it will feel to drive it. Or walking towards it in a car park or on the street knowing the effort you put in.