White smoke by RF tire?

[OperaHawk]

Uh, help...

I pulled into the gas station two days ago after getting off the local freeway. I was noticing that my brakes were a bit spongy, but the real worry was a thin cloud of white smoke coming from the right front wheel well.

When I stopped, I opened the hood and looked down - I was still getting smoke (no coolant smell; no real smell of any kind) but it was coming from the wheel and not the engine. So I figured I had a brake line leak. I carefully drove the girl home (no smoke after that at all), and yesterday checked the hoses and setup. No leaks at all - hoses could need to be replaced (a few cracks, but expected for OEM), but I can't find any obvious leaks.

Any ideas?

SBJ

[Jim Keller]

Sounds like the calipers are hanging up, probably rusty crusty slides and brackets, that's the normal cause for sticky calipers, that will cause smoke from the brakes pads, but it normally has a burnt electrical smell that will about make ya puke too, maybe the type pads you have don't stink so bad when they are hot??? or maybe you just drove thru a puddle of something that was burning off when you pulled in and noticed the smoke/steam

[Jim Keller]

I bet it's a caliper hanging up though due to your description of spongy brakes, that says the fluid and pads are getting very hot

[Will]

If the brake lines are old, I'd add a collapsed brake line to Jim's list. They will tend to allow high pressure fluid through when you step on the brake and trap it, keeping pressure on the pad until it cooks. Over time, the fluid can manage to seep back through the blockage and leave you with a situation devoid of externally visible symptoms.

[davidb]

Gez Louise Steven what next ? I agree w/Jim & Will. Tear off
the front calipers. Fancy, smancy DBA Super Duplexs. Have
the caliper guts re-built, new hoses [2 per side], new pads.
As Jim stated look @ the sliders & their mating sufaces.
Notorious for rust, pitting & sticking. Obviously a rotor check
too. There's no "run-out" or re-surface on these rotors, buy
new ones. Front brakes on these cars are a life saver. Luck !

[OperaHawk]

Hey David - I signed up for the various travails of Lancia Beta ownership... I'm amazed a wheel hasn't come off yet! ;)

I'm having it checked out tomorrow - if I find out it's a bad caliper, I'll be REAL pissed, since they're NEW...

As always, I'll let you know.

SBJ

[DJ]

The calipers may be new but are the sliders? Most of the time the answer is no and if they weren't cleaned, "smoothed", and greased properly, I'd definitely suspect them, as well.

[davidb]

It's tedious but one can "dress" the sliders w/alum. oxide
sandpaper [plumber's cloth]: sand, Sand, SAND! Then filed
down w/a flat bastard file. Opinions vary on anti-seize com-
pound useage. Copper, moly or none @ all. Vick's has new
sliders but they're off dimensionally a little.

[Jim Keller]

My stuck brakes on Lancias with exception to a couple, (This Coupe being one of those when I bought it the first time from the original owner, rears were seized tight and had to replace the calipers back then), have always been the slides and caliper brackets.
My Coupe came back to me with sticking and poor brakes, all I did was new pads, rotors and cleaned/antiseized the brackets and slides.

I just used a 4" wire brush wheel on my "corded" drill to clean the rust and crap off the brackets and slides. I mount my drill in my vise using a couple pieces of wood shims to protect the body of the drill. Then I lock it on high speed and work the pieces around on the wheel till they are down to bare metal. I use my vise grip pliers to hold the slides as they get pretty hot while doing that. I then applied Permetex brand "Anti-Seize" compund and have had no trouble in the last year of driving, although, it hasnt' moved since the first week of October due to colder and snowyer that normal weather this year.

I did just recently pickup a nice "new" but factory reject due to a bad connection on the power switch I fixed for $5 bench grinder, so I will eventually get a wire wheel for that instead of the drill routine! LOL


I alwyas forget about metioning the hose problem as I haven't had that yet, buldges and leaks, but no coolapsing and trapping pressure yet. Fiat Spiders are good for that too I hear tell

[OperaHawk]

For those of you who were wondering, it must have been a short. I'll start looking for it later.

On to the brakes:

I've just ordered pads from Vick (LAST ONES! ;) ), and I'm in the middle of cleaning up the sliders and brackets, but I've noticed something weird. On the RF (where I started), the bracket-attached 'spring/clip' units that hold the sliders in are facing away from the sliders and towards the center of the disc. The is correct, according to the Haynes manual. However, on the LF side, they are facing towards the sliders and away from the center of the disc. I had to pull the rear 'spring/clip' away to allow the sliders to pass it.

Which is correct, and how do I move those 'spring/clips' - it's not covered in the Haynes (whoda thunk?). Also, would that have anything to do with the smoke from the RF? The plot thickens...

Feeling much better now that Fenice runs. Had a bad day, and I'm glad people didn't jump down my throat, like other forums...

Thanks!

SBJ

[Jim Keller]

Actually, I just use a flat blade screw driver and a small 16 OZ hammer and tap them in and out.
I am not sure what you mean by spring clip got a picture?

[OperaHawk]

Jim (and all):

I can take a picture, but I think I can describe it.

On the ends of the 'yoke fitting' which is bolted to the hub carrier assembly (Haynes words, pg. 147), there are spring clips that fit into small holes on the inside of the yoke. The clips are shaped like a 'T,' and looking at the pictures (3.4 and 3.5 if you have the manual) they are bent towards the brake pads. Does that help?

Like I said before, they face in on the RF yoke, but face out on the LF yoke. I have been able to move one on the LF yoke and switch it around. I just need to know which way they're supposed to fit.

Thanks!

SBJ

[Jim Keller]

I am pretty sure your speaking of the support spring the calipers float on?, the slides just keep the caliper centered on them and in the bracket pretty much. They bend or point in towards the hub or disc like in the 3.4 picture. all of them, someone may have instyalled them wrong last time it was apart

[LanciaDave]

You should be able to pull the cotter pin from the slide and then tap it out with hammer and punch (or screwdriver) from the opposite side of the tang that sticks out of it (or second cotter pin). Then push the caliper in towards the hub bearing and up (or down) away from the slide you've tapped out. Then do same and pull the other slide. Then maneouver the caliper the same way to remove it. Unbolt the carrier piece where it bolts in the back. With this removed and in a vice you can remove the wire spring peices with needle nose pliers and install the correct way, so that they place tension against the caliper to center and locate it in the right spot. They should essentially conform to the shape of the carrier. One on the top and one on bottom of the carrier.

Luck,
Dave

[OperaHawk]

I flipped the tangs/clips/springs/caliper floating doohickeys on the LF without much of a problem - used a small punch to push the ends out of the holes then compressed it with needle-nose pliers to put it back in the the correct direction. Thanks, guys...

Also, I cleaned up the surfaces on the yoke, caliper and sliders on both sides. The RF was dirtier and 'rustier' than the LF, so I guess the shop didn't do a proper job of cleaning everything when they replaced the calipers. From now on, I do the brakes myself (as I should have done in the first place). FYI, I'm using copper-based anti-seize.

Once again, lancisti comes through!

SBJ