Lancia Clubs in the USA

[DJ]

OK, I'm going to resurrect this subject because I think it's important and I'd truly like to help figure out and fix what I see as a significant deficiency in the availability/viability of Lancia clubs in the USA. I'm a big proponent of car clubs and belong to several. But I see nothing really happening on that front for Lancia owners here in the States. In fact, the most active and organized club I currently belong to is in the UK!

Please don't take the following rant as simply criticism. I truly would like to see something done to rectify what I see as a poor situation and I am willing to help in any way that I can.

In January 2008 I made a post here in the Fulvia forum about my reticence to join the American Lancia Club because of the poor image they portray on their website and the overall dearth of "visibility" of the club within the Lancia community as I know it.

I pick on the ALC because they are the only Lancia-specific club here in the US and, to my knowledge, the only one chartered with the international Lancia Club. If a new Lancia owner stumbled upon that website today they would find a very amateurish website with:


a "Gallery" with pictures/mentions of only 4 models: a Flavia, a Flaminia, an Aurelia, and a Beta. (The link to the Beta pictures has been broken for some time.),
a link to pictures of club events from the 1980s,
a web links page with several broken/outdated links (but none to the biggest and bestest Lancia site on the web!) :(
an events page with info about one club event: the East Coast Reunion held in October of 2008,
a discussion forum with one test post made in April 2003,
a "Mercato" with for-sale ads dating back to at least 2004,
a Membership application, and
a list of all the club officers.


After that initial post Ed Levin (1,6 HF) responded as follows.

All that said, even though image is important, a lousy web site probably is a pretty lame reason not to join the ALC.

OK. I agreed with that so a little while after we had that discussion I decided to join the ALC to see what I was missing. (In case anyone wishes to check, I'm member #003576.) So it's now a year later and I thought I'd enumerate the things I've got out of my membership to date.


A new member packet with a 2007 Membership Roster and two VERY nicely done back issues of the club's journal, Lanciana.
The "2008:2" copy of Lanciana (excellent)
The "Winter 2008" copy of Lanciana (also excellent)
ZERO communications along the way about club events, activities, or plans
A letter with request for 2009 membership dues


I sometimes wonder where my other 2 copies of the "quarterly journal" went. And, somehow, I just don't feel like I've derived much benefit from my membership so far and I'm having trouble convincing myself to ante up the funds again. It's NOT just the bad website. To loosely paraphrase Ed's words, with the exception of the new Lanciana publications, I find the current ALC to be a pretty lame excuse for a car club.

Added to that is the fact that there are only 2 "Chapters" in the club: west coast and east coast. Nothing at all for Lancisti out here in flyover country. To me it comes across more as two small enclaves of owners who portray themselves as a national organization in order to boost their declining membership and financial situation. I see nothing going on other than the excellent Lanciana journal to grow membership, promote the Lancia marque outside of our extremely small community, or even communicate with existing members. I just don't see a lot in the future for the ALC.

Contrast all this to Fiat Lancia Unlimited (FLU) and the UK-based Montecarlo Consortium which both have very active membership, lots of events, excellent communications, and a nice website with online forums for their members.

So why not join these other clubs? Well, I have. I'm currently a member of the Consortium and am a past member of FLU. I've not renewed my FLU membership for a few of reasons.


They seem to me to be mostly FIAT-oriented. This is fine in my view but I just didn't get much out of my membership there because I don't own a FIAT badged car. I may give them another try but sometimes it seems to me that they only included Lancia in their purview so they could have a cooler and less insulting acronym (FLU Vs FU) :eek:
The small amount of Lancia focus there seems to me to be more post-FIAT than all-inclusive. That's probably just a function of their membership but, like the ALC, they don't seem to have a very strong plan/approach for growing membership or expanding their "tent".
While they have very active chapters all over the USA, their chapter in my part of the world is virtually non-existent.


So where does this leave us? What can I do to improve this situation? What can WE do? Can the ALC be saved from a slow and ignominious death? Is anyone else even interested?

Here's some random thoughts I have. I'd love to hear yours.

I've offered in the past to host electronic copies of club newsletters/journals. That would at least give clubs one avenue of distribution that they don't currently use. It was noted that clubs are reluctant to provide free copies to non-members who aren't helping to pay for their creation. That's a fair comment but it's an issue that can be handled easily. I can easily create areas of the site where only clubs members would have access. This could be in the form of a special forum area for registered club members and club business, a private Social Group specific to various clubs which are controlled and moderated by club members (other than me), or some combination of both. You'll see that I've already created social groups for ALC and Montecarlo Consortium members. Darren has agreed to own the Consortium group and I'd like to find an ALC member to own that group as well. Ed? Johnny K? :)

I've often thought that perhaps we should even consider founding a new club. A new KIND of club. I'd even offer up the Lancisti.org domain for a new website, provide hosting space, and help create and maintain the site. Alternately, we even could convert the entire Lancisti site here to a formal club resource.

It could be an international organization (Lancisti International?) with chapters in each country or simply a US club. I don't really care at this point. I'm just spewing thoughts.

It could be a web-based organization that doesn't even need to collect dues as long as we had people who would volunteer time to do things like create newsletters, write articles and reports, take pictures, etc. Everything could be done online to virtually eliminate the normal costs of standard publishing and distribution.

Even if we found that we did have some financial needs, they could be covered by sale of club regalia, donations, etc. or handled by the individual chapter organizations in whatever way they see fit.

Of course, we'd have to have a lot more discussion to address things like organization, how to address things like insurance and liability for formal club-sponsored events, etc. But we have lots of folks with all kinds of experience here and I think that would be easy to facilitate.

The more I write and think about this, it seems that we already have the beginnings of such a thing right here. Is this crazy talk? Am I just trying to create a shi*storm? Do I just need to get a real life?

[davidb]

I count my blessings for this [sole] forum even existing. Much
less it's constantly being updated & improved. Thanks D.J. I
subscribed to "LANCIANA" in the early to mid '80s & even back
then you'd be lucky to get 2 - 3 quarterlys. Plus the content was
often a waste of paper. I've personally never been a car club
joiner no matter the flavor [marque]. Meets were always too far
a drive. It's down to Dan C. & me in the St. Louis area. Sigh ...

[Will]

You've already started a club, DJ- this one!

Whether you opt to collect dues, have official events or make a newsletter, people from all over the world get on here to seek advice and/or BS with other like-minded Lancia owners, that makes it a club in my book, even if not explicitly in name.

One problem faced by the ALC, and to a lesser extent by FLU, is the population density of members. I think that to organize regular events in any region in the USA except maybe California will meet with very limited success. There are a TON more FIATs on the road and even FLU can barely get regular event attendance, despite the heroic efforts of a few organizers like Tim Beeble here in the NE.

My issue with FLU is that they relied on the concept of dues-in-exchange-for-a-newsletter, which IMO is a poor formula for a club. A web portal like we have here is better. Take a look at Mira and how they manage to operate totally grassroots and having one major event and discussion/relationships sustained via internet and I think you have a much better model.

What would be a helpful feature IMO to have here is a pin-location map so that members could find and contact other members in their geographic region.

You might also consider contacting the regional chapters of FLU and getting their event schedules to cross-promote. I think if any club is going to survive for our little marque it has to be coopereative, rather than competitive with other entities.

You could charge dues or sell a "premium" membership to access the downloads section, but IMO (and I don't hold a JD by any means) you would have to evaluate the potential legality and copyright issues of some of the stuff we have here in a different light. I think most of us (I know I have) taken some liberties with some of the FIAT owned or derived or reprinted documents because there was never a monetary remuneration.

I think if you are going to collect money, a Paypal donation link would be more prudent, or an auction-proceeds type deal.

I don't think a newsletter will fly (too much work) although I could be wrong. If you need some help managing modules or whatever, I'd be glad to help out. I don't have any PHP experience but I can do graphics and JS forms, etc. If you have a use for a cusom QT player or something, give me a holler.

Best,

[1,6 HF]

DJ,

You make some fair points, and I was going to write to take you up on your generous offer to moderate an ALC discussion group. I want to be careful in a public forum, so I'll just say that there is some agreement that the current ALC web site isn't working, and this will be addressed.

Regarding the missing 2 'missing' issues of the 2008 Lanciana, you should be receiving a 48pp double issue (2008:3-4) next week; they were picked up from the printer this past Friday, and should be mailed out Tuesday (tomorrow being a holiday). We're very firmly committed to 4 issues per year.

[To David, I can only say that the current Lanciana is a very different publication than the one you knew in the '80s. It's now full color, with diverse articles; the current double issue has a 10pp color spread on Pebble Beach and an equal-length article on a cross-country trip by a handful of Appias and Fulvias. There's also a 6pp article on the Ardea, which could just as easily have been a 6pp article on the Scorpion or the Beta had anyone offered to write one.]

It's certainly true that the ALC is structured much differently than the FLU. Aside from its heavy Fiat bias, FLU is a loose confederation of regional/local chapters with only 1 annual national event (honestly, DJ, how close are you to the Pocono Mountains of Eastern Pennsylvania?) and an insurance umbrella. The individual chapters are of course free to organize their own events, under that insurance umbrella, but other than that it's essentially one major event and a half-decent web site with a forum. The FLU newsletter is hardly worth describing, except to note that its title is Ricambi.

The ALC holds 2 annual Reunions; one on the East Coast and the other on the West. With well fewer than 400 members, it's a little hard to see how it can support more. The annual East Coast Reunion tends to take place in Pennsylvania and the annual West Coast Reunion tends to take place in California due, as Will quite correctly pointed out, to the Lancia population distribution. Historically, Lancia had dealers and distribution on both coasts (distributors were in Philadelphia [Main Line] and Beverly Hills), but never a lot of dealers in between. The reality is that we have only 3 or 4 members in Colorado and more than 75 in California--about 1/4 of the entire current membership.

But Colorado isn't Mars, we regularly have West Coast Reunion participants from as far east as New Mexico. This year it's in the California Gold Country, to make it a bit more accessible to the Oregon and Washington members; Denver is actually close than Albuquerque. Frankly, it's not at all inconceivable to organize a WC Reunion in Colorado, but it takes someone to negotiate that and to organize it.

I have personally begun some informal discussions to see if/how ALC and FLU can cross-promote and somwhow cooperate, but as you might expect this is a difficult political exercise from both sides.

As far as 'a new kind of club' is concerned, with all due respect, what you're describing is an online forum--not a club in any sense that's worthy of the term. Please don't get me wrong; this is a great forum--nothing less, but honestly nothing more. Because the 'new kind of club' you're describing is just FLU without an annual meeting and without the insurance umbrella for the local chapters. Given the current state of liability, without the insurance umbrella, FLU chapters couldn't hold an event other than lunch. That's got to be the primary reason FLU has dues; insurance can't be web-based and isn't free.

And I'm not sure why you believe a regional club/chapter structure would work. As I said, there are fairly few ALC members in Colorado and the surrounding states, but have you tried to contact any of them to see if they're at all interested in occasional regional get-togethers? If not, what's the point in it being more than an online forum? And if you can get people interested, there's no reason you couldn't do that under the current ALC organization; I can't believe you wouldn't get support if you made the effort.

So while I understand your frustration, I'm not at all sure I understand your expectations.

[DJ]

DJ,

You make some fair points, and I was going to write to take you up on your generous offer to moderate an ALC discussion group.

That would be great. I'd like to see current Lancisti ALC members start using the group area and I'd also like to see it's availability drive more Lancisti membeship/participation by ALC members. I know those folks would be a valuable resource here.

I want to be careful in a public forum, so I'll just say that there is some agreement that the current ALC web site isn't working, and this will be addressed.

That's great to hear. Unfortunately, I also heard it a year ago so I'll just reserve judgement until I see what really happens.

Regarding the missing 2 'missing' issues of the 2008 Lanciana, you should be receiving a 48pp double issue (2008:3-4) next week; they were picked up from the printer this past Friday, and should be mailed out Tuesday (tomorrow being a holiday). We're very firmly committed to 4 issues per year.

Great. I'd really like to see them come on a more regular basis, though.

[To David, I can only say that the current Lanciana is a very different publication than the one you knew in the '80s. It's now full color, with diverse articles; the current double issue has a 10pp color spread on Pebble Beach and an equal-length article on a cross-country trip by a handful of Appias and Fulvias. There's also a 6pp article on the Ardea, which could just as easily have been a 6pp article on the Scorpion or the Beta had anyone offered to write one.]

I think an article on the Beta or Scorpion could probably have been put together easily had anyone ever bothered to ask an owner to write one. Unfortunately, I think you may have missed one of the key points of my diatribe. There's simply no communication between this club and it's members.

It's certainly true that the ALC is structured much differently than the FLU. Aside from its heavy Fiat bias, FLU is a loose confederation of regional/local chapters with only 1 annual national event (honestly, DJ, how close are you to the Pocono Mountains of Eastern Pennsylvania?) and an insurance umbrella. The individual chapters are of course free to organize their own events, under that insurance umbrella, but other than that it's essentially one major event and a half-decent web site with a forum. The FLU newsletter is hardly worth describing, except to note that its title is Ricambi.

Like most national clubs I've belonged to, yes, FLU has only one major National Event per year. But the ALC doesn't even appear to have that. It's more like it's actually two clubs with the same name. But the local FLU chapters have numerous events per year. And I'm not even talking about "formal" meets or shows. I'm talking about club participation in other car events, regular social get-togethers, charity work, organized local drives, etc. ALC doesn't seem to do any of that. There are lots of ways to get/keep people engaged and to promote the marque.

The ALC holds 2 annual Reunions; one on the East Coast and the other on the West. With well fewer than 400 members, it's a little hard to see how it can support more.

See, this is the main point of my rant and it seems like a very short-sighted statement. The whole point here is that the ALC will continue to have low/declining membership because they aren't doing anything to reverse the trend. They seem to be lacking in any sort of ideas or plans for the future and are just saying "We've done all we can. and (rhetorically) What more can we do?" without actually asking current and potential members that question.

The reality is that we have only 3 or 4 members in Colorado and more than 75 in California--about 1/4 of the entire current membership.

There's that fatalistic view again. Actually, the reality is that there are MANY more than 3 or 4 Lancia owners in the Midwest and Rocky Mountain Region but the ALC has really done nothing to promote itself here in the middle of the country.

But Colorado isn't Mars, we regularly have West Coast Reunion participants from as far east as New Mexico.

No it's not Mars, but I'm not just talking about Colorado. I'm talking about the entire middle of the country that seems to get treated like Mars by the ALC.

Frankly, it's not at all inconceivable to organize a WC Reunion in Colorado, but it takes someone to negotiate that and to organize it.

Nope, it's not. In fact we did just that for a small "unorganized" group a few years back. I'd love to do more. But, again, it would also take the interest of all those folks on the west coast and support, promotion, and COMMUNICATION by the ALC. Listing an event in the back of a "quarterly" publication that doesn't even publish regularly simply isn't communication.

I have personally begun some informal discussions to see if/how ALC and FLU can cross-promote and somwhow cooperate, but as you might expect this is a difficult political exercise from both sides.

I think that would be great and kudos to you for the effort. But right now, I honestly don't see that ALC has a lot to offer FLU unless we get our house in order first.

As far as 'a new kind of club' is concerned, with all due respect, what you're describing is an online forum--not a club in any sense that's worthy of the term. Please don't get me wrong; this is a great forum--nothing less, but honestly nothing more. Because the 'new kind of club' you're describing is just FLU without an annual meeting and without the insurance umbrella for the local chapters. Given the current state of liability, without the insurance umbrella, FLU chapters couldn't hold an event other than lunch. That's got to be the primary reason FLU has dues; insurance can't be web-based and isn't free.

Nope. I think you're wrong. I think new media provides us an opportunity to do a lot more than you're envisioning. I certainly don't have all the answers but I have some ideas. Which is the whole point to starting this thread. Yes, here at Lancisti we are currently really nothing more than an online forum. But I'm saying that could change.

And I'm not sure why you believe a regional club/chapter structure would work.

Perhaps because clubs are all about groups of people with common interest who interact frequently, know each other, have actually met each other, etc. Clubs function best and most actively at the local "grassroots" level. In it's current state, it seems to me that the ALC is just really an infrequent journal publication entity that has annual events for it's 2 largest centers of membership. It's hard to grow or even sustain a club that way.

As I said, there are fairly few ALC members in Colorado and the surrounding states, but have you tried to contact any of them to see if they're at all interested in occasional regional get-togethers?

This is the whole point of what I would like to see us do. Yes we have done a few such things but none of us have grasped the initiative to take it further, nor have we had an acceptable umbrella organization to do it under.

And if you can get people interested, there's no reason you couldn't do that under the current ALC organization; I can't believe you wouldn't get support if you made the effort.

Again, my main point. This sounds to me like you expect the membership to come up with all the ideas and do all the heavy lifting. It should be the other way around with some sort of overall strategic vision for the club. And I just don't see that yet.

So while I understand your frustration, I'm not at all sure I understand your expectations.

I don't really understand why you don't understand. My expectations are fairly simple.


I expect a National club to actually put a lot of effort into expanding the club, promoting the marque, and communicating with it's members.
I expect such a club to portray a professional image.
I expect said club to promote AND facilitate socialization of all it's members wherever they may be.


So far I've seen none of this from the ALC. All I seem to hear is "We're going to do something about that..." and "What more can we do?"

Maybe the USA is just too big for the ALC. At least for the current ALC leadership's mindset.

[1,6 HF]

Concerning the ALC web site, all clubs have internal political issues; I think there's a real willingness to address the web site at this point.

I completely agree that Lanciana should come out more regularly. Donald Osborne, the editor, and I are acutely sensitive to this. We both volunteer our time and we try to see that it gets out regularly, but occasionally our respective professional responsibilities affect the schedule.

I think an article on the Beta or Scorpion could probably have been put together easily had anyone ever bothered to ask an owner to write one. Unfortunately, I think you may have missed one of the key points of my diatribe. There's simply no communication between this club and it's members.

This gets back to my comment about expectations. Donald does try to reach out to get articles written, but communication is a 2-way street. Every club journal that I know of accepts unsolicited material--certainly every one accepts offers to author an article. If it's something you care about, why are you sitting back and waiting for us to come to you?

Like most national clubs I've belonged to, yes, FLU has only one major National Event per year. But the ALC doesn't even appear to have that. It's more like it's actually two clubs. But the local chapters have numerous events per year. And I'm not even talking about "formal" meets or shows. I'm talking about club participation in other car events, regular social get-togethers, charity work, organized local drives, etc. ALC doesn't seem to do any of that. There are lots of ways to get/keep people engaged and to promote the marque...

The whole point here is that the ALC will continue to have low/declining membership because they aren't doing anything to reverse the trend. They seem to be lacking in any sort of ideas or plans for the future and are just saying "We've done all we can. What more can we do?" without actually asking current and potential members that question...

There's that fatalistic view again. Actually, the reality is that there are MANY more than 3 or 4 Lancia owners in the Midwest and Rocky Mountain Region but the ALC has really done nothing to promote itself here in the middle of the country...

No it's not but I'm not just talking about Colorado. I'm talking about the entire middle of the country that seems to get treated like Mars by the ALC. ...

Perhaps because clubs are all about groups of people with common interest who interact frequently, know each other, have actually met each other, etc. Clubs function best and most actively at the local "grassroots" level. In it's current state, it seems to me that the ALC is just really an infrequent journal publication entity that has annual events for it's 2 largest centers of membership. It's hard to grow or even sustain a club that way.

You're quite correct that the ALC does not have a single national event; as I said, it has two; the EC Reunion and WC Reunion are both natinal events. This year a group of mostly California member drove across the country on US Highway 6, and timed that drive to be able to join the EC Reunion; most of them had attended the WC Reunion a couple of months earlier. A single national event is a real problem for a small club. AROC does this, with rotating venues, but they have over 3000 members, and can always count on a substantial number of participants--not to say a substantial percentage of their membership. Given the scale of the country, this tends to be a big problem for any small club; there's a real difference between a 500-mile drive to an event and a 2500-mile drive.

In any club, the more local events you describe, "regular social get-togethers, charity work, organized local drives, etc.," virtually never depend on the national club for organization; they tend to be organized by one or a couple of the local members. Again, if it's something you care about, who do you expect to organize such things in your area?

That said, I think it's a very fair question to ask whether it might make sense to develop more grassroots support by introducing a chapter structure into the ALC. It's something I'll take up with the current ALC officers. I can well understand how someone out of easy driving distance to either coast would feel basically left out; it's hard enough to avoid that between northern California and southern California. And I completely agree that a "national" club cannot sustain itself unless it truly is national.

...again, it would also take the interest of all those folks on the west coast and support, promotion, and COMMUNICATION by the ALC. Listing an event in the back of a "quarterly" publication that doesn't even publish regularly isn't communication.

Even if it's published like clockwork, listing local events in Lanciana is certainly useless; it's exactly why we need a decent web site and/or an ALC 'module' within Lancisti. But that still doesn't get local events organized--in order to promote something, there first must be something to promote.

...But right now, I honestly don't see that ALC has a lot to offer FLU unless we get our house in order first.

Fair point, but it's a double-edged sword. FLU doesn't necessarily have a great deal to bring to the ALC; Lancias are a tiny percentage of the cars in FLU, and FLU's representation in the West is extremely limited. California isn't the be-all and end-all (no matter how much we Californians imagine it to be be so), but given the nature of car culture here, it speaks volumes about a "national" car club that it doesn't have a single California chapter. I think it's a worthwhile dialogue, but it's not at all clear where, if anywhere, it will lead..

... Yes we have done a few such things but none of us have grasped the initiative to take it further, nor have we had an acceptable umbrella organization to do it under.

Again, a very fair point. I just don't think that a new umbrella organization will be able to get the job done; much better to take the best organization we already have--and I think that has to be the ALC--and improve it. To which end, I sincerely appreciate your comments and the spirit in which they have been made.

I'm going to make a number of people aware of this thread.

[LanciaDave]

You make some very good points DJ. As does Ed, and many of the others. I've been an ALC member since the early nineties with a brief lapse in the middle. (That reminds me, I need to send in my club dues). I would like to see some improvement, especially in local informal gatherings and the webite (especially continually updating the Mercato section).

The ALC is a little focused on West Coast (mostly So Cal and Seattle) and the East Coast, chiefly because that's where the most people and the highest concentration of Lancia's are. I think partly due to the high number of aerospace engineers interested in the marque, engineering, and build quality.

There is a big focus on pre-Fiat cars in the ALC. There's a big focus on post-Fiat cars in FLU and similar groups.

A large number of the ALC membership (and especially long-time leadership/organizers) are aging, beginning to have health problems, and slowing down.

Clubs are not governments or large corperations that are led by 'someone else' and funded by (nearly) unlimited money. They're cobbled together on a shoe-string by enthusiastic guys like us.

I think the perfect answer here is to renew your ALC membership and be the one to make something happen in the ALC. Write an article here and there. Organize a local or regional chapter. Put together a drive or informal show. Help with the website and/or Mercato section. Get involved. Make a difference. The club's already there. All it needs is the one I nominate:

YOU.

The Lanciana has already been recreated nicely. I hope you can help recreate the rest of the club as nicely. I eagerly await your progress and ideas.

Best Wishes,
Dave
a few Lancia's (and Fiats)
Oregon

[DJ]

I truly appreciate everyone's willingness to engage in this discussion.

I'm certainly not really looking to create a new club. As I said, I was just try to put forth some thoughts and ideas to spur the discussion.

I agree that we should all get more involved with the ALC if we are to be members. And I'm all for every Lancia owner being a member. But it has to be fruitful for us all.

The big question is, how DO we get more involved? There just doesn't seem to be any real mechanism in place to foster involvement. I'm hoping that discussions such as this will help to change that.

And, Dave, one of the main points of my diatribe was that there is no local chapter structure within the ALC. If there was, I'd bet we'd have people working to organize them. I know I would.

As for writing articles, stay tuned because I have some plans that should allow us all to become authors. :eek:

And I'm trying to help with the website issues. But again, I'm asking how? I've set up an ALC social group here that Ed has graciously agreed to own. We'll see where that takes us.

It would take very little time to transfer the ALC domain to my server and set up a much more comprehensive website for the ALC. But I just couldn't (and shouldn't) be the "sole proprietor" like I am here.

Let's keep talking because, like I said, I think this is important.

[Charley]

I belong to AACA,FLU,and ALC. AACA is of course the most well organized of the clubs,but I have not affiliated my membership with any local AACA chapters because of the negative attitudes toward "foreign" cars (unless they are MGs or Austin Healys). The Hershey AACA national fall show was the first one I've attended where I saw a quite a diversity of foreign makes displayed. But at local chapter AACA shows I have attended,I have always felt like an outsider. Members have actually made rude comments about my car (like "Fix It Again Tony" ha,ha),or simply walk on by to look at the 64 Falcon parked next to me. I don't fit in. Then there's the ALC. I became a member and attended the ALC east coast reunion in Wellsboro,Pa. (I have some photos of the event posted on Lancisti). I again felt like the odd duck because I was probably the only post Fiat Lancia present at the reunion. I wasn't snubbed or anything but I received a lot of blank stares and "Oh's" when I was asked what kind of Lancia I drove. I had wine and cheese on Friday night with the other members. Awhile later I got so bored with the Aurelia/Appia/Flaminia small talk,I went across the street to a local bar and got drunk. Then I spent a very cold autumn night in the smelly old ancient Penn Wells Hotel. In the morning I walked down the street to Dunkin Donuts and had breakfast by myself. Then I went on 1/2 of the Saturday drive. After examining the "real Lancias" at the lunch stop,I booked for home. I just felt I didn't fit in. FLU always seems to be trying to improve things,and they are without a doubt the most accepting of the clubs I've joined,but again Lancias just aren't 124 Spiders. At least I feel welcome and most of the "local" chapters of FLU try to have activities occasionally (if you don't mind hanging out with about twelve 124 Spiders and an occasional X1/9). I have gone to quite a few Del.Val. chapter drives and shows and have always been treated with respect. I think some kind of affiliation between FLU and ALC would be great,but it's very unlikely. I am all for any kind of cross promotions or event sharing between clubs,even if it's with an MG or VW club. How's that ? BTW,Freak-Out is going to be held at Valley Forge,Pa. in 2009.

[Zagato78]

Interesting discussion guys.

I've had years of involvement with ALC between my father and myself(i actually still have all our Lanciana's dating back to the '80s). The club is a wealth of info and some really great people. For the Midwesterners, it was always difficult to truely get involved given the time/distance thing. Mind you this was well before the internet.

DJ, I think you have created the most accessable Lancia gathering around! It's this or Viva-lancia. Perhaps those of us who frequent here should make our own get togethers. Ken Dickson(rest in peace my friend) was very active in St. Louis with the Italian car scene. Every fall he scheduled a River Run, open to any I-car in the area. True mine were the only Lancias to ever attend, but it's going to be like that. There aren't that many Lancias left here.

It would be great if the ALC were to utilize the site as well. That membership focuses heavily on the older Lancias, it would be great to see more discussions about them.

How about some Lancia only TSD rallys? :D

Dan

[shaun pond]

Like DJ, I'm pondering whether to renew my ALC membership.

I've very much enjoyed the issues of Lanciana that have come this year, but I have otherwise not received any communication from the club except for a renewal notice. And, though the dues are not high, there are a number of alternative uses for this cash (e.g. contributions to one of the forums that I regularly participate in; membership in an international Lancia club) that seem to provide more value to me than the ALC has.

This thread has already covered some of the challenges the ALC faces, such as the relatively small pool of potential members and the very large geographical distances that separate them. But I think there's another, non-Lancia specific factor as well: how relevant is a national club today?

I'm old enough to remember the pre-internet car club scene (though with MGs, Opels and Austin Healeys, not a Lancia). Then, the monthly or quarterly club newsletter was the primary (sometimes only) way owners communicated. The club publication featured active correspondence between members, as well as reports, articles and how-tos; and it also contained -- albeit usually in the form of ads -- information you couldn't find anywhere else about non-local sources for marque specific parts and expertise.

If you were lucky in your choice of car and where you happened to live, you might also have the benefit of a network of local fellow owners. But, for most of the time for most of us, the thread of common interest was maintained by the club publication.

It seems to me that, today, much of this traditional raison d'etre for -- and much of the day to day value of -- a national car club has been superseded by the internet. Without being a member of a national club, I can today use the internet to find and communicate with other owners (overseas as well as in North America), ask technical questions and get answers, read about restoration projects and attempts to improve the breed, find and order parts, read about the history of the marque and the current doings of owners, drool over pictures of cars in better condition and/or more interesting situations than mine, arrange to meet up to go on drives, rallys and runs, watch and listen to Lancias on YouTube, and so forth. I still appreciate the tactile and graphical pleasures of a well-produced magazine, but most of my regular activities with other Lancisti happen, or are at least initiated, over the internet.

So, if many of the things that a national club formerly did to provide value to its far flung members are now being done -- for free and without the need to join anything -- on the Web, what's the proper role for a national club today?

Reading what I've written thus far, it sounds like I'm building up to say that there's no need for a national club anymore.

I'm not.

Every single ALC member and officer that I've had the opportunity to meet has proved to be an interesting person and a committed Lancisti, and I'm loathe to give up on the club for that reason alone. A club is an organization of people with common interests, and I find Lancia people uncommonly interesting.

Additionally, there are a number of potentially valuable and interesting things which would be easier to accomplish on the basis of "clubbing together".

But only if there is enough interest in doing them. For example, are there really enough North American Lancia owners who are willing to support (money, time, personal effort) national, regional, and/or local events? Will people contribute time and effort to regularly produced magazines, websites, blogs, wikis, and registries? Is there interest in funding a parts or special tools scheme, and/or in having regalia produced? What are the other common interests that Lancia owners have -- regardless of what type of Lancia they own or where they live -- that they would be interested in supporting?

I don't know. But I suspect that the ALC doesn't really know, either. The fact that I learned about the status of the remaining 2008 issue(s) of Lanciana from Ed's remarks in this thread, rather than through some club channel, is an example of how poor the current communication within the club is and a clear sign that it needs real help.

One way of getting this help would be to take DJ up on his offer of this forum's venue to allow ALC members to regularly and easily communicate with their officers and with one another. Right?

And, if not, why not? What am I missing?

Regards

[1,6 HF]

...One way of getting this help would be to take DJ up on his offer of this forum's venue to allow ALC members to regularly and easily communicate with their officers and with one another. Right?

Shaun,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I think your comments are well taken on the role of a national club vis-a-vis the internet, and on the issue of value for money. That was at least part of the impetus for taking Lanciana beyond a strictly club-focused, technical advice magazine to something that would seem to represent more value for ALC members.

Maybe more importantly, though, I'm currently working on trying to take advantage of DJ's extremely generous offer to host the ALC web site. I think there could be great synergy between Lancisti.net and the ALC.

[Scott H]

All good points.

It is interesting to read this because the Chicago area is a perfect test case for what you are describing DJ. It is the new(est?) FLU chapter and has grown from nothing to about 60 or so in one year. Up until a few weeks ago I was the only Lancia.

What has made it work? I would say a few things. There is a local forum:
http://www.meetup.com/chicagolandfiatandlancia/

In a lot of ways it is like this forum with a big difference that nearly all of the members are within the greater Chicagoland area. There are some up in WI, across the lake in MI, and all of the way down in St. Louis.

There are regular meetups. These vary from casual driving events that are put together in a couple days to some pretty major events. We have had a track day at Autobahn Country Club:
http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/

There are BBQs, group wrenching days, and a group photo of a bunch of cars with the Chicago skyline in the background. A photo contest that turned into a calendar for sale. Fall colors tour and so on.


The local Italian repair shop is a big supporter and promotes the club.
http://www.autosprint-imports.com/
Giovanni is holding a free tech session this Saturday.

I am not the sit around and BS at the car show type. There are quite a few events that I do like and enough of all different types that there is something for darn near every one.

To make it all really work is through the efforts a few people who take care of the details. Having a well organized web site sure helps out. The Meetup.com program works nicely as I think a large portion of the maintenance is part of the package. It does take time from a few dedicated people. I am grateful they can do. I just don't have the time myself.

Scott

PS - Keep in mind that for 4-5 months there are no driving events because of the weather.

[1,6 HF]

It is interesting to read this because the Chicago area is a perfect test case for what you are describing DJ. It is the new(est?) FLU chapter and has grown from nothing to about 60 or so in one year. Up until a few weeks ago I was the only Lancia.

What has made it work? I would say a few things. There is a local forum:
http://www.meetup.com/chicagolandfiatandlancia/...

To make it all really work is through the efforts a few people who take care of the details. Having a well organized web site sure helps out. The Meetup.com program works nicely as I think a large portion of the maintenance is part of the package. It does take time from a few dedicated people. I am grateful they can do. I just don't have the time myself...

Interesting, and the meetup.com looks like an interesting resource.

As previously discussed, of course, the biggest issue with FLU is the Fiat bias; as you note, 60 members and only 1 (or very few) Lancias. And that's fairly typical. This Sunday, I'll be doing a mountain drive with a group that's trying to put together a FLU chapter in Southern California; it's a repeat of a similar eveny last Thanksgiving, at which there were a dozen Fiat 124 Spiders and X1/9s and 1 Lancia--mine. Not even any Scorpions [edit: wrong; there was indeed a single Scorpion--but there should have been more]. This Sunday, we'll have a Flavia Coupe as well as my HF; it's anyone's guess if any other Lancias will show up, but it's a sure bet that there'll be 3 or 4 (or 5) Fiats for every Lancia. Don't get me wrong, the Fiat guys all appreciated my Lancia, and (as an early X1/9 owner) vice versa. But a Fiat/Lancia group will almost always be dominantly Fiat, simply on the basis of relative numbers sold in this country.

But the real problem, as you point out, is that someone has to take the time to organize the events and/or maintain the web site. Anyone--FLU, ALC, anyone--can do this anywhere. Right now, in many parts of the country, FLU seems to be doing a better job at grassroots organizing and managing online resouces, but not a great job at serving the Lancia audience. The ALC is just the opposite, but we're working on the online resources, and some of us are beginning to address the grassroots issues as well.

[Scott H]

Using the Meetup format seems to me to be a great way to do it because it is somewhat generic and I don't think it takes as much time as what DJ invests here.

Yes, it is the people. There are some extremely good people who are dedicated running the Chicago FLU. Without them the club would not exist.

Here is the group pic that was taken last year:
http://lancisti.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=37&pictureid=212

The cool 500 that is next to me is the owner of the Italian repair shop. This was a pretty neat event. We had to meet at 7:00AM in downtown Chicago. For many that was over an hour drive in. Just to the left out of view is the street. We are all on the sidewalk! There was a bit of concern that we were all going to get tickets for driving and parking on the sidewalks. There were a few joggers that stopped as they went by. They all thought it was neet seeing all of the cars there. The hope was that the sun would be behind us and the city would be lit up with the bright direct sun. It was cloudy :mad:.

The total time we were there was maybe 15-20 minutes as the photographer took individual shots too. No cops. 19 cars was a pretty good show. Mostly Spiders and Xs. A few 600s too.

The other issue with clubs here is there are just not a lot of Lancias around. I know of maybe 6 cars total in Chicago. I am guessing there are a few more but there can't be many.

DJ, why not have a club links section that tells a bit about each organization and most importantly, where they are located. I seem to have four different Lancia lives; my private hobby where I work on my car and drive it among the corn fields, the local FLU club, the web forums, and then I visit a few of the people I meet as I get to travel around for work. I would guess that others have something similar to satisfy their car needs. A local fix (club), broader knowledge and casual social network (web forum).

I just signed up for the Montecarlo Consortium. I really have no expectation of ever meeting most of those members since it is a UK club. I do like their approach to the cars so I joined. But who knows? I have met other Lancisti in person in Dallas, Southern CA, San Francisco, New York, New Jersey, and Atlanta. And I've met up with DJ a few times at odd places around the country.

Now I have to explain to my two teenaged daughters why it is bad to meet people on the internet. I am such a hypocrite :D.

>Scott

[1,6 HF]

...The other issue with clubs here is there are just not a lot of Lancias around. I know of maybe 6 cars total in Chicago. I am guessing there are a few more but there can't be many....

There are at least a handful of ALC members in Chicago and the surrounding areas--some great guys and some very interesting cars.

Now I have to explain to my two teenaged daughters why it is bad to meet people on the internet. I am such a hypocrite.

Yeah, it's a particularly bad example when it involves guys with cars...

[KeppelmanJ]

Guys, I just came across this thread. Wish I'd found it sooner. Now it may be comatose, but on the chance that someone may look at it again let me share some thoughts. I was editor of Lanciana for more years than I like to think about and an active member of ALC since the early 80s. There are really two kinds of networks involved here. The ALC is pre internet, and to the extent that it is a community it's a real community rather than a virtual one. The website is the creation some time ago of one member and the club takes little ownership or interest in it. It's a appendage to a club whose reason for existing is love of the Lancia marque historically, but mostly long term friendships within groups up and down both coast mainly. Don Stonefeld attemped to start a band in the midwest and was named MW VP but I think he fell victum to the critical numbers issue mentioned above. The group never really got going, I believe. Enthusiasts on the coasts get together and communicate about the cars regularly on their own or around particular restorations, regional feeds, vintage races (Pittsburgh, Monterey, Portland, Seattle), rallies and concours, particularly Monterey and, of course, club reunions which are annual. Participants in these meetings are fewer than the 400 or so club members, of course, probably less than half, and the rest belong to the club for the Lanciana. Lancia is a very interesting marque and many of the cars are innovative and wonderfully engineered, but I think what keeps it going is really the friendships.

Given that the core of the club is based on FTF community the website doesn't matter for communication, but it would be a great way of being more visible and for that reason it should get a good refresh. Due to the obscurity of Lancia, it's eccentricity as a marque, and the fact that it hasn't been imported to the US since '82, the club has always struggled with gaining membership. It didn't help that it's last model here, the Beta, got such bad press for rusting, didn't apparently prove collectable and was mostly left at the side of the road by ALC members when it got too expensive or difficult to repair. So the youngish Lancia buyers, starting with Betas, weren't around as a group to buy Aurelias once they had the wherewithal.

I'm sure members of the club would support a well intentioned interest in a better website and I think the same is true of organizing member groups anywhere. Both would have to come from within the club. Personally I have always found great friends in the ALC regardless of what model they collect or where they are. Lancia is one of those vehicles which mysteriously collects very interesting and lovable enthusiasts.

[1,6 HF]

Johnny, Thanks for the thoughts

...The [ALC] website is the creation some time ago of one member and the club takes little ownership or interest in it...

This is going to change; I'd like to see it happen this Spring, but undoubtedly it'll take more time than that.