How do I tell a good Fulvia from a bad one?

[ShadowSix]

I live in Germany, close to Luxembourg, but will be moving back to the US this summer/fall. I would like to send a nice Lanci Fulvia back with me but I'm not running into a good source of common problems and things to watch out for on the Fulvia.
There are a couple books on Ebay, but I'd hate to waste euros that could be spent on Lancias on a book that might or might not tell me what I need to know.
Descriptions on the forum are great, but a picture is worth a thousand blah-blah-blah.
Also, is Omicron the accepted best practice in the field of parts aquisition? ...I've been lurking for a couple weeks.
Can't wait to answer random questions from Ohio yokels about my rare italian rally car!
v/r
Joe V.

[1,6 HF]

Joe,

First, welcome to the unlurking end of the forum.

Next, there is a book you should buy. Wim Weernink's The Lancia Fulvia and Flavia - A Collector's Guide (not expensive, and available from online sources). It has a great chapter on examining and road testing a Fulvia prior to purchase--very helpful to me when I was searching for one.

Omicron is indeed a great source for parts. But if you're going to be in Ohio, you'll be quite close to the best US source--Mike Kristick, in central Pennsylvania (MAKRISTICK@aol.com).

And when you do get back here (or even before), think about joining the American Lancia Club (http://americanlanciaclub.org/); the web site is awful, but it does have a membership application. It's a great support network, and a great group of people.

Good luck, and feel free to post any specific questions you may have. But do get a copy of the Weernink.

[SubGothius]

Also, don't miss Viva-Lancia's Fulvia QandA page:

http://www.viva-lancia.com/fulvia/qanda/

...not to mention the relatively lively Fulvia forum on that site as well:

http://www.viva-lancia.com/lancia_fora/list.php?10

(not to detract from Lancisti here, but that seems to be where most of the Fulvia action is)

[ncundy]

You should follow the suggestions already given, but in addition I put some photos up of my brothers stripped shell on this site:

http://www.geocities.com/neil.cundy@btinternet.com/Site_Map.html

and my experience of where corrosion can commonly be found and the consequences.

The majority of the cost will be in the bodyshell and subframe. Get a good one and your exposure will be greatly reduced.

Mechanically they are extremly robust, but they are also 40 odd years old. Evidence of recentish engine work, wheel bearing change and brake work would be good.

Being in the UK I have no knowledge of parts availability in the US but you will get plenty of support from those like Ed who are deeply involved in the "scene". You don't say which type you are considering but 1300 parts are generally much more available and cheaper than 1600 parts, if it is an S1 car the only significant difference for parts availability is the brakes (Dunlop on S1 and generally harder to get bits for).
If you go for an HF, whilst basically very similar those parts that differentiate the HF from the non-HF are becoming rarer and more expensive, and the basic purchase price will be higher.

Good luck (and good choice !)
Neil

[ShadowSix]

Thanks to everyone for the info, I've got the Weernink book on order and have a lot more resources to bring to bear on the Fulvia selection process.
All the Fulvia coupes in the western GE, BeNeLux area seem to be 1.3 non-HF from the early to mid seventies, anything specific to look out for there?
Thanks,
Joe

[ncundy]

Purely a personal opinion, but I would go for a series 2 car (doesn't have white dials) as the S3 cars were subject to a Fiat Value Analysis exercise. Whilst the basic car is the same, the fixings (nuts, bolts etc) are of a far lower standard, as (again in my opinion) is the interior, with lower quality cloth and some questionable colours. I know from experience that taking apart an S3 car is far more of a ball ache than an S2 with bolt heads rounding off and threads on bolts stripping. As a car to drive however there is no difference.
All the best with your search
Neil

[1,6 HF]

I'd second Neil's comments, and try to stick to an early '70s example rather than a mid-'70s "Fulvia 3" with the white dials. I might make an exception for one of the limited production variants--the Montecarlo or the Safari.

In all cases, as Neil suggests, you'll want to look out for the usual corrosion issues--sills, wheel arches, and most especially the rear of the front wheel arches at the subframe mounts. Also check the center of the front wheel arches for cracks or any evidence of repaired cracks; cracks at this spot are evidence of a subframe failure. If there's a current crack, I'd walk away; if there's a repaired crack, it's not necessarily a deal breaker, but carefully check to see that the subframe is sound and that any repairs have been made properly.

And it's always a good idea to check the engine number (it's on the top of the flywheel housing, just next to the starter motor bracket), to make sure that the car has the proper engine type--not an incorrect replacement, as sometimes happens.

But my best advice is still the first I gave--study the Weernink chapter on examining and road testing, and use the book to familiarize with the model variants and specs.

Beyond that, there are Fulvia specialists in the BeNeLux area--one of whom, Huib Guerink, runs the Viva-Lancia site that Tye mentioned earlier: http://www.viva-lancia.com/ It's worth paying someone like Huib to check out any prospective purchase; there's a decent chance he'll already know the car. His contact info is huib@viva-lancia.com (huib@viva-lancia.com) .

[shaun pond]

Joe,

Let me join those congratulating you on your interest in Fulvias!

I also agree with Neil and Ed's advice regarding the ways and means to tell a good Fulvia from a bad one. The scary body pictures on Neil's restoration site are invaluable for identifying the common Fulvia corrosion areas, and, as Ed states, Weernink's chapter nine is very sound on what to look at during an inspection and road test.

I can't comment on the relative desirability of the 2nd vs the 3rd series Fulvias, since I've never personally seen a 3rd series car here in California. But everything I've read from Lancia cognescenti supports the preference that Neil and Ed express for the earlier cars.

I only suggest that you also keep your eyes open for a good Series One Fulvia Coupe, if you can find one. I personally find the 4 speed transmission sweeter to use, at least for daily driver use, than the later 5 speed (Ed, please feel free to differ). And, for me, things like the alloy hinged panels and quirky heater controls of the earlier cars add to the charm.

Ultimately, though, I don't think you can go far wrong with any sound Fulvia, regardless of its age. Buy the best one you can afford, and then drive it.

Good luck, and please keep us posted.

[1,6 HF]

I don't generally subscribe to the "everything went to hell the minute Fiat bought Lancia", but there was some cost-cutting involved in the Fulvia 3. Mostly, though, in my mind they suffer from '70s aesthetics: plastic steering wheel, white-dialed instruments, and what I think Neil correctly describes as questionable interior color combinations. But these are strictly matters of taste, so I would defer to Neil's greater experience with any differences in production quality.

And I'm so used to the dogleg 5-speed that it's hard for me to comment on Shaun's preference for the 4-speed, but I wouldn't dispute his claim that it's nicer in traffic. Having briefly driven 4-speeds (in both Fulvia and Flavia form), I can attest that the 4-speed is indeed silkier than the 5-speed. It's also important to keep in mind that a 5-speed doesn't get you an overdrive gear--top gear is direct (1.000) in both the 4-speed and the 5-speed.

Regarding the S1 Coupes, the typical rap has to do with the Dunlop brakes (S2s had Girling) and the ventilation. But I've never had a single issue with my Dunlop brakes; most issues arise from disuse (I do about 5000 miles a year, so that's simply never an issue). And living in Southern California, ventilation is less of an issue (my heater core has been bypassed, and my ventilation controls effectively consist only of the window winders).

So I wouldn't take any issue with Shaun's suggestion that you consider an S1. Nor with his contention that you basically can't go wrong with any good Fulvia. And, as he says, you always want to buy the best you can possibly afford; it's always cheapest in the long run.

[shaun pond]

...what I think Neil correctly describes as questionable interior color combinations...

Ed, it isn't just the interior colors on the late Fulvias that Joe needs to be warned about, is it?

I believe you have elsewhere cited giallo maio and giallo bangkok as concrete evidence of a sad outbreak of color blindness in Italy in the mid 70s (or words to that effect).

[1,6 HF]

Ed, it isn't just the interior colors on the late Fulvias that Joe needs to be warned about, is it?

I believe you have elsewhere cited giallo maio and giallo bangkok as concrete evidence of a sad outbreak of color blindness in Italy in the mid 70s (or words to that effect).

True enough, but I don't think anyone needs much warning about that. Those colors are pretty rare and, if found, pretty much speak for themselves. Perhaps "bark" is a better term...

[KeppelmanJ]

I have restored a couple of Fulvias and I'd add to the good list above to look out for body repair work. I'd take a magnet shopping with me and I'd go over likely damage spots, fenders hood front, doors bottoms and sills. Most guys doing bodywork can't take the time to remove rust and it get buried where it continues to weaken the car. If the car happens to be a Rally Coupe this wont apply to the doors, hood and trunk lid as they'll be aluminum. In fact, I'd take a special interest in a west coast car, especially a California car, other things being equal.

[alfaromeo]

Joe V.,

You are in a very good position without realizing it. To buy the car of your dreams, just go lurking on eBay.it.... there are always many Fulvias of all sorts. If you can locate one with ASI certification, it might be a very good example. Just spend a long weekend driving down to Italy to get the one you like best.

Now, in regards to S1 Fulvias vs all the others (i.e. S2 and S3), you will find that there are still more S1 parts available in the US. There may be more S1 cars as well. Try calling Mike Kristick at 717-292-2962 to discuss the situation.

In regards to which series Fulvia is best, well, that's a easy answer. It's S1. I have four of em, 2 1300 Coupes, a Zagato and a Berlina GTE. If you look at it this way, the only advantages the later cars have is a alternator and revised heating/vent system that still doesn't function that well. The advantages of S1 cars are everywhere you look. But if I were to harp on one point, it would be the transmission. The Lancia four speed is a extreme pleasure to use. The Fiat introduced ZF five speed of S2 and later will have you questioning your ability with a stickshift, and it would not be your fault.

So, where in Ohio? Western or Eastern Ohio. Eastern Ohio isn't really too far from Mike Kristick.......

Jay