Coupé 1300 Gearbox oil drain

[Modano]

Hi all,
While I was checking the dipstick of the gearbox on my 1981 Coupé (clutch changed) I dismantled (how the hell did my mechanic refit it...) the coolant hose that goes from the coolant tank.
A few centiliters went down before I stopped the fall. Level in the tank has decreased a little bit (not that much as the level is still in the range I guess)....but the dipstick was removed at this time...

My assumption is that some coolant went into the gearbox. Oh, not that much, but most probably a few milliliters.
It is in a parking now. My decision was not to start it until I drain the gearbox. Am I too pessimist or can I go in my private parking (5 kms in town) ? Am I right to drain it now without running ?

If I drain, shall I remove both nuts ? (gearbox & differential ?)
I suppose 1.8 liter is the right amount to fill up everything, but as the oil will be cold, how much time should I wait for the drain to complete while both nuts are out ?

Many thanks for your help

[Modano]

I managed to get my car in my private garage.
Now time to choose the Gearbox&Diff Oil.
Very tricky.

Lancia recommended Tutela/oliofiat ZC90 (80W90 GL3 non EP).

I can put GL4 but I want a clear statement that it is not dangerous for yellow metals.
GL1 are under specs. GL5 excluded.
80W90 mandatory. (85W90 possible).

I cannot find this locally nor by internet (except Russia and Czech Rep...)

Anyway, I looked in virtually every Oil maker, and only a few of them provide(d?) what I need :

-> Agip : ROTRA 80W90....but impossible to find.
-> BP ENERGEAR EP 80W90 : GL4 with no clearly identified no danger for yellow metals....But hard to find here (in France) any online seller ?
-> Gulf TDL 80W90 : GL5/MT1 but with clear statement of non danger for yellow....couldnt find one.
-> Q8 ZC90 :...perfect! seems to replace Tutela ZC90, designed for FIAT...couldnt find one neither.
-> Same for TAMOIL Tamgear 80W90 ZD.
-> PENNZOIL GearPlus 80W90 GL4, seems to match pretty nicely. Any knows an online reseller of Pennzoil to Europe ??

Thanks for your advices..I cannot imagine that every beta owner that gear drained his car had so much difficulties than I'm having :(

[SubGothius]

I've only ever seen GL1 and GL3/4/5 (combo) gear oil, never seen the latter specs sold individually, but Europe may differ from the US in that regard. I gather the problem for our cars with GL5 in particular is not so much that it's unsafe nor causes premature wear, but only that the additives in it make it too slippery, so the syncros don't mesh as quickly/smoothly, making for difficult gear shifting. I don't know that there even is any yellow metal in our gearboxes, at least not that I've ever heard of.

You might try farm or industrial suppliers, as plain gear oil is sometimes also sold as "tractor oil" or "hydraulic fluid", or contact a petroleum distributor about getting some "straight mineral 90 weight" oil stock -- either way, it's all just plain oil of a certain (common) viscosity, no additives nor anything specially-formulated about it. A lot of folks like Redline MTL (80 weight) or MT90 (90 weight) synthetic GL1 gear oil, which I've had in my car the last couple years; it seems to work fine, but it's expensive and also seems more prone to seepage, and I've heard that cheaper non-synthetic oil actually works better, as that's what the gearbox was engineered to use.

SAE viscosity ("weight") grades are different scales for motor oil vs. gear oil (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html), so a 30-40 weight motor oil is equivalent to an 80-90 weight gear oil. Many have used regular motor oil (10W40 or 20W50, usually the exact same oil they put in their engine) with good results, although you'd be paying extra for engine-oil additives you don't really need (but they shouldn't do any harm, either).

I just got some straight SAE 30 "Non-Detergent" motor oil (often stocked wherever you get motor oil, for antique cars) to replace my gear oil, will report back how that turns out.

P.S. to DJ -- I went to get that NAPA gallon jug of GL1 you recently referred us to, and I found it has doubled in price (to $16.77) since you recommended it!

[ontrack2]

Its quite common to see GL4 or GL5 Gearbox oils - at least it is here in Australia.

Now (this is not a lancia but) my unimog has Yellow metals in the transmission and so it is recommended to only use GL4 and not GL5. This is one of the biggest argument's in the Unimog Forums - the GL4 V GL5 debate.

The issue revolves around the EP additives that are generally found in GL5 Oils, which tend to eat and slowly destroy any yellow metals. AFAIK GL5's have a high sulphur content which is what eats away at the yellow metals

However SOME GL5 Oils are Yellow metal safe (generally they stipulate that on the container), these tend not to have the EP additives that other GL5's do.

On the other hand some people folks have been running GL5 oils with no problems and think it is not to much of an issue. In all the time I have been looking at the GL4 V5 debate I have yet to see a definative answer.

In regards to oil a lot of people use Redline Tansmission oils, I swapped to that in my Unimog and BOY what a difference..like getting a new gearbox. Did not think it would make that difference.

[Will]

+1 on the MTL.

[Modano]

Thx for your comments. I saw in the forum that RedLine has made its proof on Betas, and as it is not corrosive to yellow metals, the testimonials are really a good proof for me that it is suitable.

But wouldn't it be better to go for a MT-90 (75W90) rather than a MTL (75W80) oil ?
Is there a specific reason ? My Lancia handbook recommends 80W90 so I thought at first glance that MT-90 would be better ?...

I also saw a Pennzoil GearPlus GL4 80W90 not corrosive towards yellow metal...


Edit :
anyway in France it seems I cannot get these oils easily unless shipping worlwide (and yet I have to find an easy way....with low shipping costs).

[DJ]

Most vendors who sell it for FIATs and Lancias recommend the MT-90.

As previously mentioned, Lancia recommended straight SAE 40 motor oil as one option here in the US and it works exceptionally well in the Beta gearbox.

[Modano]

Hi all,
I finally found a local reseller which will send me some quarts of MT90 :D
Hope this won't be tooo long or too expensive :/
Many thanks.

[Grundo Farb]

This is all very interesting, on the Colotti Transmission website they specify only SHELL SUPER GEAR LS 90 for the diff which also equals gearbox. So I search for that product and it doesn't exist but, if you go to Shell.com and select under consumer lubematch you can find the local equivalent under lancia. So for New Zealand under Lancia Coupe 1600, 2000, -Volumex it comes out with:

Manual Transmission:
Premium XGO Gear Oil 75W-90 1.7 / 1.8litres
Standard SPIRAX GX 80W-90

[SubGothius]

IIRC, the issue with GL5 and EP additives in Beta transaxles is not a yellow-metals issue, just that the EP additive makes the oil slipperier, whilst our syncros were engineered to function expecting a certain controlled degree of friction as provided by plain dino oil, but GL5's lower friction means less-effective syncro action means slower/balkier shifting.

[Modano]

IIRC, the issue with GL5 and EP additives in Beta transaxles is not a yellow-metals issue, just that the EP additive makes the oil slipperier, whilst our syncros were engineered to function expecting a certain controlled degree of friction as provided by plain dino oil, but GL5's lower friction means less-effective syncro action means slower/balkier shifting.

THAT is what I wanted to be sure of....I'm blocking my vehicle because I'm afraid of putting oil that will disintegrate my synchros or whatever.
Anyway I'm also blocking it due to the small amount of Coolant that fell into the dipstick hole :'(