Ignition without a distributor

[Pope1]

I would like to find a distributor-less ignition solution for a VX if such a thing exists. Is anyone aware of possible solutions out there?

Chris

[Geoff T]

Guy Croft In UK sells a Weber ignition kit for Fiat twin cams, but I think it is VERY expensive (around 500 UKP)!
Have a look on his website. Search Guy Croft and you'll find him.
There are probably other aftermarket kits available ex USA too if you look around.

Geoff T.
Series II Montecarlo

[Will]

I think you'll find that the Electromotive HPX ( electromotive-inc.com) and FAST Edis ( fuelairspark.com) both offer superior programmability and higher resolution than the Weber-Marelli unit, although they too are pricey.
Your cheap options are to swipe the units of a 2L turbo application or use the DIY rig that goes with the Megasquirt DIY setup, although I personally am going to go all out and just get the Tec-3.
-Will

[Pope1]

Thanks guys. Will investigate further. I received a price list from Guy a couple of days ago and saw his option on there but I believe it is for normally aspirated engines only.

I'm getting fed up of ignition timing related issues and was just wondering whether I could find some more modern technology with greater precision.

Chris

[Pope1]

Will,

That tec-3 thing looked fantastic until I saw a starting price of $2100. The technology is wonderful (all the kit that I have as standard on my Golf GTI) but my god the price!

Can you tell me a bit more about what the 2L turbo cars use please?

Thanks.

Chris

[Hamish]

I'm pretty sure the kit GC markets is suitable for all engines normally aspirated or forced induction - surely that's the key advantage of a switch to a programable system :?: - drop him an email, I'm sure he'll advise you better than I.
Some folk might remember the sadly departed magazine Cars and Car Conversions :?: Dave Walker the 'technical guru' for the magazine produced a fully programable system at his own firm (Emerald Cams/Tuning? don't recall exactly) that I think evolved to become the 'Emerald 3D'. As I recall it cost an entirely reasonable amount when compared with the competition with the software included to let you set the system up with a laptop/PC.
Might be worth a search to track him/Emerald down :?:

[Wallace]

I've brought a second hand Alpha unit for my engine - which might be an option if you don't want/need the latest all singing and dancing version. An alternative might be to obtain a ECU from something common like a Sierra Cosworth and have the chip re-blown when it's set up on a rolling road.

The idea of "setting the thing up" own you own with a lap top never really appeals to me as you're not going to be able to accurately "feel" from just driving the odd horse or so - and it's the optermisation of these individual horses which add up to give you the gains you're looking for.

And having spent (persumably) quite a few notes on the engine, what's the point in not spending a bit more and getting the best out of it ??

[Pope1]

Doing the laptop thing is highly dependent on the quality of the software. I have something that works well on my VW and it is not really a problem to use although I have not messed with engine parameters at all.

The Electromotive HPX seems to be an attractive option that does not require a laptop but once again costs quite a few dollars and requires a timing disc and sensor to be fitted to the crank. As our cars are not that common a standard kit is not available so I am wondering how much hassle that will involve. I'll try and get in touch with GC again next week for some additional input.

[Ken H]

Can you tell me a bit more about what the 2L turbo cars use please?

Chris

Chris, the 2 liter turbos I'm familiar with (Lancia Thema) use a Magnetti Marelli ignition computer. Lancia went distributorless around 1989 with the 16 valve. The MM unit ties into the Bosch ECU, not sure how easy it would be to get it to run standalone. The system uses 2 coils, each coil firing 2 cylinders. Timing is from a signal off the crank pulley and another off the flywheel.

Simplest/cheapest would be to buy a complete setup from a wreckers including all the sensors. But this solution may not have an advance curve that's suitable for a VX.

- Ken

[Pope1]

Thanks Ken.

[Will]

I'm leaning towards the Tec only because I need some in/outputs that you'd only really need under high, hot boost. I'm fitting a large SC, and there's no room for intercooling. The Tec offers outputs for water injection and multi-stage nitrous, basically a lot of stuff most people don't need for most installations. But, by the time you invest the time to do it, a shame if it falls short in the future.
May sound pricey, but still a lot cheaper than an $8000 Motec- and comparable to the less expensive FI solutions and ignition solutions that are seperate.

-Will

[Dave Dutton]

We are fabricating mounts for crankshaft sensors for Lancias and FIATs. We are also adapting the 60 tooth timing wheel to the crank pulleys. We have a machine shop here.

I am a big fan of the Tec3 because of Electromotive's great service.

You don't need to tune with a PC if you have a normally aspirated car because I have some data files that will work fine with the Electromotive. We will make my fuel maps for Electromotive available to all. Sorry we have none yet for forced induction cars.
See www.applemotors.com/fi.htm for info on our adapter that eliminates the need for wiring (most of it) one of these-- either Electromotive or Haltech. And I can switch my programmable ECU from one Lancia or FIAT to another easily.
thanks
Dave