Dedra cold starting / running & heater controls

[ian.cleary]

Hi,

I've just bought a Dedra and am working through a few jobs on it. Picture? Oh go on then....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2628041152_c650edece0.jpg

Anyway I've got a couple of issues:

1) The car is very lumpy when starting from cold and stalls unless is manually revved.

2) The hot/cold heater control is stuck on hot and twisting the knob sounds / feels like something is broken or disconnected behind it.

I'm completely at ground zero with the starting issue, all advice and common failed parts welcomed!

With the heater control, does anyone have a diagram or a walkthrough of what needs to be removed to get at the controls? On my Prisma it was very easy as I went in from the front... on this... really not sure.

Many thanks for reading and hoping I get some welcome advice :-)

[mikeymikemcmike]

Looks good in the pic. Re the cold start - what engine is it?

Mike

[ian.cleary]

Hi Mike,

It's a 2000 ie, so a 1995cc engine.

Decided to get stuck in to the heater... as it's already past bedtime and I'm restless. So far lifted all the plenum trim and ascertained there is no heater control beyond the bulkhead, so moved inside...

...cannot believe how many screws...! Am part wazzed off about this and part in awe, no stupid trim clips to break, just screws and patience...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2629681270_dd1cc1d8c4_o.jpg

Looks like the knob is connected to a cable which disappears down behind the glovebox side, so am expecting some kind of valve round there... probably seized though so need to proceed carefully.

Found a broken wire on the centre vent light and a couple of blown dash bulbs so will probably box up under the bonnet for now and put the wipers back on (might as well grease the wiper linkage while I've got it open) and potter off for some bulbs in the morning.

Have got LMC membership pending so might be a good idea to hold off with the heater until I can get a proper schema from the library in the club? Any experience with accessing their data, Mike?

[mikeymikemcmike]

Hi,

Mine is a 1.6ie so a completely different engine / injection system. Sorry - I don't know anything about the 2.0 version!

Mike

[ian.cleary]

No problem Mike,

Well the dash is all back together and working, but it took me two or three test fits of the vent wiring to get the light working and the vent open / close mech not being restricted by the wire... kind of a dumb design that part and I'm still not 100% happy with the routing of the wire... so will have another look at that later on.

All illuminating bits are lighting up as they should now though, and this makes me quite happy. I think I might go for a brighter bulb size in the heater control panel than the 1.2w that's fitted in there now, just a pain to unscrew all that lot again for essentially a very minor aesthetic tweak. It'll need to come off at some stage because I used green bulbs and the shade is slightly different to the clear bulbs with green covers that Lancia originally used... we are talking *very* minor niggles here... but I tend to get a bit obsessive about this stuff.

/ic

[www.deltahpe.nl]

Visit www.lanciaforum.nl and register there. Then a download section appears in the menu. Click there and see the magic....

more than 75 downloads of Lancia workshop manuals and more...!

[ian.cleary]

Visit www.lanciafora.nl and register there. Then a download section appears in the menu. Click there and see the magic....

more than 75 downloads of Lancia workshop manuals and more...!

I think it's possible that I might just have fallen in love with you :D

THANK YOU :)

[www.deltahpe.nl]

Your welkom. They are in all kinds of languages, but most manuals have pictures so it will be helpfull.

[ian.cleary]

Your welkom. They are in all kinds of languages, but most manuals have pictures so it will be helpfull.

Yep, am just now working my way through the Italian workshop manual trying to locate idle valve information :-)

Seriously dude, many many thanks for this :)

[ian.cleary]

Right, located valve in manual and sussed it all out. Did a quick Google for "clean idle regulation valve" and "clean weber idle valve"

Two bolts, two hoseclips, a blast with carb cleaner and some WD-40 later and I have a car that starts and idles more smoothly from cold, idles well @ 850rpm when warm and is much smoother on the over-run than before.

Driving the car now is more smooth overall, just had a blast up to Sainsbury's and filled it up (£49.00 to fill it - with 5p per litre discount voucher).

Am stoked, it was getting dusky outside too and so my newly illuminated dash looked nice (although the oil gauges don't seem as lit as they could be).

The balancer-shaft motor is very smooth and quiet compared to my Prisma and there seems to be an absence of wind noise... a couple of rattles and squeaks from the dash can be sorted over time and I think that somewhere in the front suspension there is a joint or bush (or multiple of) that needs a look... the occasional less cushioned sound from the drivetrain on poor surfaces is quite harsh. Perhaps I can even hear a small grumble from the n/s/r wheel bearing, and I know the discs and pads need changing at the rear...

:D

[www.deltahpe.nl]

I think you will like this link also....

http://eper.deltahpe.nl

[ian.cleary]

I think you will like this link also....

http://eper.deltahpe.nl

The message window will not close on the front page of the http://eper.deltahpe.nl/ website, this means I cannot see the parts... problem with the site?

Very keen to have a look, and thanks for all your help!

[www.deltahpe.nl]

Does not need to.... just click on "spare parts" then "Lancia"...

[DJ]

Does not need to.... just click on "spare parts" then "Lancia"...

I don't think you understand. He can't see the "spare parts" link because of the window on top that won't close. I have the same problem.

See attached screenshot.

[ian.cleary]

I don't think you understand. He can't see the "spare parts" link because of the window on top that won't close. I have the same problem.

See attached screenshot.

Aha, not just me then.

I think it's a fail on the script on the page, for some reason the "close" button on the pop-up window doesn't function. I tried it in Safari, Firefox 3 and IE7 and not working on either Mac or PC...

[ian.cleary]

Following the stripping and rebuilding of the idle valve yesterday I'm pleased to report that the car sat all night in the garage and fired on the key this morning without any throttle and settled immediately into a smooth cold-idle.

Very happy bunny :)

[www.deltahpe.nl]

I see... eper does only work with IE...

Try this link:

direct link to Lancia part of eper (http://77.251.11.230:7080/navi?GUI_LANG=3&LANGUAGE=3&COUNTRY=099&WINDOW_ID=1&KEY=HOME&EPER_CAT=SP&MAKE=L&SBMK=L)

update... also solved the "not closing" problem i think...

ePER (http://77.251.11.230:7080/navi?KEY=STARTUP)

[ian.cleary]

Looks good now sir, seems working :)

[rossocorsa]

cross my palms with £30 in crispy notes and you can have a pucka printed genuine lancia manual send message me if you want it! that's for pick up postage extra weighs a ton

[rossocorsa]

Following the stripping and rebuilding of the idle valve yesterday I'm pleased to report that the car sat all night in the garage and fired on the key this morning without any throttle and settled immediately into a smooth cold-idle.

Very happy bunny :)

that's good i assume you bought steve's old jalopy it appears that he didn't listen hard enough to my advice on air valves as he should have done that already!!! pity that he's turned into an old pensioner with a Rover 800 have you put all the intake pipes back to stop the jungle drums yet?

[ian.cleary]

that's good i assume you bought steve's old jalopy it appears that he didn't listen hard enough to my advice on air valves as he should have done that already!!! pity that he's turned into an old pensioner with a Rover 800 have you put all the intake pipes back to stop the jungle drums yet?

LOL, he's a fine chap and I'm only hoping that I come into money so's I can go back and throw £50 notes at him until he releases that stunning Beta :eek:

I got a really good feeling buying from him, kind of suspected he was having second thoughts about selling so was quite surprised when he let me take it without a fight.

And yes, air valve is done... and it's funny you should mention the jungle drums... I had a "WTF" moment there and was feeling my wallet tighten in my pocket... fortunately opening the bonnet drew me straight to the intake and the soft "whump whump whump" from the induction system. Shall be looking at that over the weekend I guess.

The manual would be top, and seems a very fair price. Might be a couple of weeks before I could get south of the bridge so up to you if you'd prefer a collection or to post? Got a new roof coming on the garage this next week so even £30 will seem like an unfeasible and large amount of money until payday. If I collect then you can see the Dedra again, now that I've slammed it, put 20" alloys on and an "ICE" system in there... oh yeah, sprayed all the wood with aluminium paint and got a neon gearknob too ;)

I'm guessing that you must be Tony? Is that right? :D

Cheers
/ic

[rossocorsa]

is that tony the tiger? nope I'm Alan had a dedra turbo some years ago now after which i had a Delta HPE now I just have a beta but in pieces not shiney like steves I can post the manuals but they are mega heavy if you want you could pay me by paypal but i'd need to add postage and then 3% on the whole lot for paypal fees up to you can't subsidise as the price is cheap anyway!!

[rossocorsa]

and it's funny you should mention the jungle drums... I had a "WTF" moment there and was feeling my wallet tighten in my pocket... fortunately opening the bonnet drew me straight to the intake and the soft "whump whump whump" from the induction system. Shall be looking at that over the weekend I guess.



for some reason beyond me steve liked the jungle sound and deliberately induced it i think it is simply due to the omission of a pipe or something like that!!

[ian.cleary]

Right, not Tony but Alan. Got it... I'm not good with names, faces, birthdays and anniversaries... :)

If it's OK with you for me to collect and you can wait until after 25th of July then I'd love to have the manual. I have a pdf copy of an Italian one that got me out of a hole already but a real book, and an English language one at that would be a treat.

To spread the love a little, if you know anyone looking for a factory Prisma manual then I've got one of those that I'll pass along at the same price, and I've got a couple of front struts for a Prisma lurking in my garage too that are free to a good home.

The jungle drums don't freak me out now I know what they are, but I can't see what harm it would do to get the induction side back to rights, after all I have to assume that the Italians made it the way they did for a reason :)

Seems like quite a few folks have run Dedra turbos on here and LMC boards... wouldn't mind the chance to get one if the right one came up but the colour, spec and condition of this car would make it tough to consider changing it for a while. It's got imperfections for sure, but so far I haven't found anything that's depressed me, I think that the burning oil smell will result in at least a new set of rings sometime in the future and I'd like to get the heater so it's not stuck on hot, but these are all things I can take in my stride. Welding and major paintwork is what normally gets me down, the paint mostly... and touch wood... *knock knock*

/ic

[rossocorsa]

when the time comes put up with left hand drive and find a delta hpe rather than a dedra turbo the delta drives and handles sooooo much better like a proper lancia is still practical and roomy without the discomforts and overcomplication of a grale (plus a lot less rust too!) and if you find one with the recaro seat option (standard on turbos) they are the best seats in the whole world i still miss sitting on them and i sold the car about 3 years ago.

[ian.cleary]

Yeah, I've not really had a good look at one of the later Deltas, hopefully I 'll get a chance to check one out.

[rossocorsa]

I had the only delta hpe around this area bought it new in rotterdam in 1999 brought it over on the ferry, drove it home on a friends trade plates then got it registered here very responsive to drive much sportier than the slightly soggy dedra turbo wider track with the flared arches and fast steering as per alfa make a big difference fastest 'hot hatch' around at the time 193 bhp with masses of low to mid range torque like a bullet at overtaking speeds, rare car in hf turbo form they only made a couple of thousand worldwide ...if I'd know that at the time maybe I'd never have sold it!

[ian.cleary]

Sounds like I should try and check one out.

It sounds like a silly thing to say but after owning a LHD car previously I actually prefer driving them... it feels more "special" somehow.

I'd be quite happy having a LHD daily again, unfortunately my wallet spends its life trailing in the wake of my spending ambition... :red face:

On a more grounded note, I'm ploughing through the to-do list on the Dedra of things that need cleaning, adjusting and repairing. Heater mixture knob is giving up its secrets and I know how to fix that now (thankfully a problem at the control end rather than in the heater box), and I am hopefully sorting out to see a chap in Bradford with a shed full of ex dealer stock that should provide me with the bits I'm needing as cheap NOS (new old stock) parts. He has Fiat, Lancia and Alfa bits and apparently the Dedra stuff is slow moving and taking up space that could hold more profitable stock :D I'm going in with low expectations but if his stock is as good as it sounds then I should be sorted faster than I thought, as I'll be able to afford more in one hit.

Looks like there are missing bits from the induction system after the air filter on the fresh air side... so some investigation to do there, or alternatively I need to work out a bassline to go with the jungle drums.

Wheels are still a big question mark... do I get the ones I've got refurbished (in which case who do I get to do them?), do I get some refurb ones from Zagato (14" OE style and 15" 8v Delta Integrale ones seem available... I keep thinking the Dedra would look good on those) , do I try and hunt down NOS ones (possibly silly money and original lacquer is the reason mine are needing attention) or look at aftermarket wheels (I have a horrible feeling that everything available would look barry though)....

Every direction looks like a spend of at least £300.00 as cheapest option is Zagato refurb at £49.00 a corner and I need a pair of front tyres, or ideally a full set of quality rubber all round... £300.00+ takes some explaining to SWMBO as that's a lot of fish finger child fuel, or almost a full tank of unleaded.

I'm passing the time at the moment by dismantling the interior and putting it back together packed at contacting surfaces with very thin foam and graphite-based grease, replacing missing screws as I go... it sounds like an anorak thing to do but the difference when driving over cobbles at low speed is incredible... squeaks and rattles are being exterminated.

Which only leaves the body to discuss... well, for a well driven 17 year old car the body is a cracker, but there are some bits that need one of those magic dent fellows to come along and have a look (about £50 a panel seems the received wisdom on how much the work costs), and the OSF and OSR wings have some bubbles. If this Bradford thing really does turn up NOS panels then that'll be great, but getting paint on and matched could be an expensive exercise.

The guy that has done my paint since forever recently retired so I'm now looking around for recommendations... know of anyone that you'd recommend in the area Alan?

Mike Roberts in Hull mentioned that he knows someone that paints, but that they're expensive for repair jobs as they're used to doing full cars from bare metal and obviously they make more money with less cost and hassle on that kind of work than from matching panels on older cars.

Think that about brings me up to date with where I am at. My eBay auctions ended and so I'm good for the manual now a little faster than expected, PM or email me (ian.cleary@gmail.com) and we can work out how to sort that.

Coming up to bedtime I reckon, probably enough car geeking for tonight ;)

[rossocorsa]

as regards wheels personally I don't like the original dedra alloys and you will find that they soon start going milky even new ones options to go for would be to powder coat the originals in plain silver this will be much more durable or change for another style Fiat did do 15 inch delta evo style alloys for the delta hpe that would fit and look the business but they are likely to be expensive unless there is an offer on always worth enquiring at your nearest dealer if you need the parts number i can find it otherwise i'd opt for after market wheels 7 x 15 is a good size as you can use 195/50x 15 tyres which are plentyful and cheap Toyo t1-r is a very good performance tyre for a good price. i had momo wheels on my dedra

[rossocorsa]

... know of anyone that you'd recommend in the area Alan?



steve was the man for the mirror finish paint jobs but he's given up painting these days unfortunately and I don't know anyone else to recommend

[www.deltahpe.nl]

I had the only delta hpe around this area bought it new in rotterdam in 1999 ....

There's a really, really good one on a dutch ad website now...

http://link.marktplaats.nl/178257161

http://www.freewebs.com/deltahpe/

I happen to know this car is in excellent condition! I know it's owner and previous owner... Full options, tuned bij one of the best tuners here in the Netherlands, compleet stainless steel exaust, brembo brakes....

[rossocorsa]

i don't want to look! It makes me sad that i no longer have mine! Mine was rosso lampo with grey alcantara most underrated Lancia ever made always knocked by the 'grale brigade but I can remember pulling away from a friend in an evo 2 he couldn't keep up and i was comfortable too unlike him in his cramped up sardine can!!

[ian.cleary]

Hmmmm, not sure about those white dials or the seat inserts... it's otherwise a lovely looking car and those wheels! :eek: They're lovely!

Ahhhh, Steve mentioned he used to paint in the RAF but I hadn't realised he did cars too. What a shame he doesn't paint anymore. Explains the shiny nature of the Dedra though 8)

[rossocorsa]

This was mine you can see why I feel sad to think about it! But I got even sadder with all the repair bills and the petrol so it had to go at the time!

[ian.cleary]

Very nice sir! Good plate too :)

[rossocorsa]

Yes But I Let The Plate Go With The Car As Well .......never Mind Driving This Now Even More Badly Built Than A Lancia!!!

[ian.cleary]

LOL, we just sold our '78 midget... we were sad to see it go :(

[rossocorsa]

I'm sad at having to admit owning an MG hate the things on the whole (in particular MGBs) but the TF is a pretty good driver actually and well thought out (even if there are, shall we say, a few engineering 'shortcuts' that Fiat would never have allowed!) they are just so cheap for recent cars with low miles in near new condition logic couldn't resist ..a TF or a dull hatch for the same money it's a no brainer!