Notes for the Mechanic who's picking up the Monte after 5 years in the garage...

[JGreenslade]

Hi,

I have a terrible confession to make...



...my poor Monte hasn't left the garage in 5 years.

You have full permission to throw rotten vegetables at me.

Anyway, I have the owner of a rather excellent garage coming over to pick it up in the coming weeks. He's a bodywork guy, and his mechanic is ex-F1 (it transpires that he prefers the sedate world of working on ancient Lancias and Lotuses in the leafy countryside to taking part in Mr B Ecclestone's circus - and who can blame him?).

These people are well qualified to work on a Monte to put it mildly, but I'd like to make their job as easy as possible (I don't know how many Montes they get it - it appears that most of their business comes from earlier models such as Appias and Aurelias).

Considering the poor machine hasn't turned a wheel in 5 years (I've been setting up a new company, doing 80+ hour weeks - I know, it's a poor excuse...), these are the notes so far:

Car has undergone minimal mileage since bodywork restoration in mid-'90s

The outer sills need repairing (car passed MOT previous year, but failed when regulations changed – I was told it would cost around £150 to fix at the time)



New cambelt



Brakes will be totally seized no doubt!



Something isn’t right with the steering – I was getting a “knocking” at 70mph and above. I believe this is a common Monte fault to do with a linkage in the rack. Wheel balance is fine



Underneath of bonnet around vents has some rust.

There are probably a million-and-one things I haven't thought of, so if you have any suggestions for things the garage ought to keep an eye on, I'd be obliged, and will forward them to him. I'd prefer to do the work myself, but my garage is tiny and I don't have the tools (I did once upon a time, but that's a separate rant!!).

Thanks in advance,
Justin

[Darren]

Hi Justin,

Welcome to the site! Puts official hat on - you could also take a looksee at www.montecarlo.org.uk and join the Consortium! ;o) Well worth it - although I am slightly biased being the membership secretary!!:D Anyway, this is a great place to come for help and advice too! Where are you based?

5 years - Is that all?? Mine has only very recently made an appearance after 15 years of various garages and barns! There are plenty of others out there in the same position so don't feel bad about it! ;o))

Where is the car going to for the restoration work?

1. Sills - not a big job itself but well worrth having a look at the inner sils and the bottom of the A/B posts.

2. Cambelt - a straightforward job - may well be worth changing the belt tensioner at the same time - Monte Hospital or Guy Croft can help here.

3. Brakes - I am sure that if these guys are a fraction as good as they sound, they'll have the brake system drained down and completely refilled with calipers being checked over. It's also possible that the seals on the master cylinder will have perished and that's a bit more of an involved job to change as the pedalbox will have to come out.

4. Steering knocking - no idea - is it a continual knock - does it transmit through the steering wheel? Racks can be rebuilt - again, the Monte Hospital is your friend.

5. If the rust is bad, you can get a repair panel from you know where!

Somewhere - and I can't put my hand or cursor on it at the moment, there used to be a list of things for new owners to check over, send me an email or pm me and I'll see if I can did it out for you, but it's 8 pages or so or excellent advice from them that know!


Good luck with the car and keep us posted! Look forward to hearing from you!

Cheers

[JGreenslade]

Hi Darren,

The inner and outer sills were restored in the mid-90s. However, when the restoration was done, in order to save some costs, certain areas were left alone on account of not being load-bearing areas. The MOT rules changed, and an area that wasn't restored became mandatory. My apologies for sounding vague on this one - it was 5 years ago. I spoke to my then bodywork people, and they explained that they didn't work much on this area as it wasn't crucial at the time and the bill was costing more than the car was worth.

The knocking only occurs above 70-ish MPH... I thought it was a wheel balance issue, but it isn't. I seem to remember there being something on the Monte Hospital site about a similar issue. I believe the whole rack / steering system probably needs a thorough looking at.

Thanks again,
Justin

[lanciatomcat]

Justin
I think you should plan what needs doing to get an MOT and also what you would like from your Monte. Do you intend to keep it 100% standard or modified to some extent?
The TMH website and the Montecarlo Forum will, like this Forum, give you excellent guidance and you can see how your bank balance relates to things as well. Can be very important!!
Regards
Tom

[JGreenslade]

Thanks, Tom.

Of course, getting the MOT is the main priority - any mods will be further down the line (it already has one or two such as a CSC exhaust, Tarox discs etc). I was just looking to get some suggestions for the mechanic for any specific areas that crop up on Montes that haven't been used for a good while.

I should also clarify that the car's an '83 SII Spyder

Cheers,
Justin

[lanciatomcat]

Justin
May I enquire which area of the UK you are in please?
Regards
Tom

[JGreenslade]

Hi Tom,

I'm on the fringe of Kent where it meets SE London.

Cheers,
Justin

[lanciatomcat]

Justin
Thanks for the information.
Know it well as I lived in SE London, at Sydenham, for many years.
Regards
Tom

[Darren]

Hi Justin,

Paul Dempsey is not a million miles from you, in the Croydon area and he's just getting his Series 2 coupe back on the road. I have located that file, which is full of a lot of useful information. If you would like a copy, send me an email and I'll forward it to you. (Lancianut69(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk

Getting the rack out isn't particularly difficult and sounds like it is a good idea. New racks aren't available any more iirc, but the monte Hospital does do all the bits to refurb it.

What kind of knocking is it? Just a noise, or does it transmit through the steering wheel? Does it make the car deviate on the road?

Cheers

[lanciatomcat]

Justin
Paul seems to have a location in Chiselhurst and another at Edenbridge. Think his car is being done at Chiselhurst.
Regards
Tom

[JGreenslade]

If he's getting his car done at a garage in Chislehurst, about the only garage I know in central Chislehurst who handle that type of car would be The Crown garage. They did some work on my car once. I remember them being good, but expensive! I lived in Chislehurst for a while.

The "knocking" makes the steering wheel oscillate quite powerfully when you approach 70-odd MPH - it starts to "rumble" up and down. It doesn't affect the steering, but it's pretty intimidating none the less.

Darren - I'll pop you an email - thanks!

Thanks to all for the advice.

Justin

[Darren]

Hi Justin - you have mail!

Have you checked the track rods, wheel bearings and the struts? Basically the whole of the front suspension to make sure that it's all bolted together properly and not bent up or dented? Getting the tracking checked is probably a good idea too.

Hope this helps!

Cheers

[1,6 HF]

Justin,

Are you sure the knocking at speed isn't a balance problem? If you have a tyre specialist check, I'm guessing they'll find a 'square' tyre or two--at least one of which is at the front.

If the car has been sitting literally motionless for 5 years, without being moved over the course of a year or more, it's very possible that the tyres will have gone out of round.

[JGreenslade]

Ed - I'm going from memory when I last drove the car 5 yrs ago! I wouldn't attempt to start it without fitting a new cambelt.

Darren - many thanks for the PDF!

Tracking and wheel balance were checked. I believe it's something to do with the steering linkages / rack.


Justin

[Paul Dempsey]

Hi Everyone, Justin congrats at getting on with the car. Mine is now done , mot ect, but it wasn't running very well. I found out the one of the spark plug threads had gone and it was losing compression.
I did take the to the Imperial service station in Chislehurst, but they couldn't or wouldn't deal with it, so I ended taking it to Race Powered Motor Sports on Borough Green. Jim the owner is a wealth of knowledge on these type of cars. They have a rolling road . The car is still with him and I'm hoping to get it back in the week.
By the way, I am in Chislehurst. if you need anything let me know. I will be only to happy to help out if I can, cheers Paul.:)

[lanciatomcat]

Paul
I think many of us have had the problem of a garage not willing to undertake work on a lancia. Some that do have little idea and it can come back worse than when it went in.
Thanks for the delivery to Bob. Appreciated.
Regards
Tom

[Paul Dempsey]

Tom hi, I don't usually get on this site much. Glad to be of help, nice chap Bob. I have posted a parts ad on the Consortium forum that I am giving away if you are intrested, cheers Paul.:)

[JGreenslade]

Hi Paul,

If I manage to get the car ready this summer (very 50 / 50 to be honest - there's a lot more work than I initially thought - the car's still on its original valve stems, i.e. not ready for unleaded...), we should meet at the Rambler's Rest and compare cars. Failing that, it'll be next year...

I too have encountered stupid mechanics who don't realise the car is simple. When my old mechanic got out of the game, I asked him to recommend someone... He said "I wish I could...". He used to say that the Monte was far easier to work on than my '66 Austin 1100 that I had...


Cheers,
Justin

[Will]

There is no correlation beween valve stems and unleaded fuel. Furthermore, nobody has ever been able to document, despite being challenged to do so, ANY of the124's, Betas, or Monte/Scorpions ever suffering microweld valve recession (which is a condition of the valve/seat interface involving old cars with IRON heads.


(The following is from another forum post, I was threatened to be sued by the vendor NOT named herein- go ahead and skip this if you are already familiar with the "unleaded conversion" issue)


At least one vendor has been selling "unleaded conversions" which are touted to prevent your engine from "destroying itself in short order" on "unleaded petrol".

The parts this vendor installs (molybdenum copper guides and seats) are not even designed for, nor, ever were intended to solve iron head valve recession problems! They are racing parts designed to increase thermal transfer to aid in exhaust valve cooling. They might be of benefit if you were spending a great deal of time at WOT at high RPM with agressive cams, but for a street car you might as well tear up your money and throw it, out the window, since valve cooling is adequate as is.

I have even heard argument that UK heads are different from USA heads in terms of valve seats, and that USA heads are made for unleaded and others are not. I have not had the seats tested metallurgically, but they spark test as steel when ground (both US and Italian market heads), and the reason USA cars say "unleaded fuel only" is because US cars use catalytic converters, which can be damaged by lead residues.

My opinion is that since there is a serious lack of evidence to the contrary, you should switch to unleaded without further issue. There are lead-substitute additives, but again there is no reason to assume these are necessary. Also, if you are adding a cat, the phosphorus lead substitutes may not be the best thing for that either.

I will happily change my tune if anyone experiences actual micro-welding erosion and not a regular, ordinary, burnt exhaust valve- but since nobody has managed to produce evidence of this EVER actually having occured in a Fiat/Lancia twin cam motor, (even the 124's going back to the '60s), I can only conclude that this problem is a percieved one, or a manufactured one designed to sell parts and labor for head work.

[Paul Dempsey]

Justin hi, Will beat me to it, there is no need to have the head done. This has been discussed many times by those in the know and you should feel confident that putting unleaded in your tank isn't going to do any damage.
I think that meeting up at the Ramblers would be a great idea. Just imagine the attention we would get from having two monte's there.
It is amazing the reaction you get from people who have never seen one before.
As I said before , if you need any help ,, just give us a call, cheers Paul.