Weird "no-start" problem. 8v cat.

[MaZ]

Since I'm quite new to the Lancia (Mostly Alfa before) I could really need some advice about a strange problem on my Delta Integrale 8v Cat.
First of all, I bought this car in October and has worked on it since to get it in running condition, the car had been standing still for quite some time and stuff like the brakes and such had to be fixed. I don't have all the background on the car but I know it has a "tuning chip" but not what brand and this makes the car fast as hell but also has a big drawback; when accelerating 100% sometimes the ignition cuts out (I presume that this is something Lancia did to save the car in case of too much boost?) and this naturally kills the engine for a fraction of a second until the boost level drop. Don't tell me to change the chip, that is planned but I'm not filthy rich. :wink:

What went down:
Full acceleration (almost, If you don't press the accelerator all the way the engine doesn't cut out) and at 5000 rpm I was about to change gear but as I did that the engine cut out (boost level) and didn't restart -> roll to stop.
Tried to start it with the key but it ran really rough, like on 1½ cylinders intermittently back firing and dying. Fearing that the cambelt might have skipped a tooth or two (cambelt change week before in shop) we towed it to the garage and began the hunt for possible failures.

Whats been done:
-Checked the timing belt - OK (sigh of relief here)
-Almost immediately found a really bad looking hall-sensor in the dist. changed it but made no difference.
-Strange Nippon Denso plugs (thinking maybe fouled plugs) -> changed to NGKs but still no go.
-Got gas in the tank and the battery is fully recharged.

So what now? My prime suspect is the Crank trigger sensor but I haven't found any info regarding how it should be positioned to the teeth on the pulley. Is it supposed to aim exactly at the tip @ TDC? What distance? Surely it needs some clearance but how much?
Maybe the sensor is faulty? Is there some way to check it?

I'm really stuck here so any tips are welcome.

Also, this car has been in the UK so any info regarding the life on the island is most welcome, good or bad doesn't make a defference.
Registration number in the UK was: [G631 PWR] & chassis number is 00511666

Sorry for the longish post. :D

[MaZ]

Disconnected the crank trigger today and tried to start but then it just didn't fire.
Resistance over the sensor is 685 Ohm.

Now I'm all out of ideas... :cry:

[EVO92]

Maz,

Have you checked the fuel presure? there is a few cm's of rubber hose between the fuel pump and the top of the tank which is prone to leaking...(Basicaly the pump is happy working away but instead of the fuel going to the engine it gets pumped straight back into the tank!).

If you want to track down the history go to the following forum which is the biggest for Integrale drivers..

http://forums.delphiforums.com/evoforum/start

Good luck,
Martin

[andyvilly]

:D Hi maz, Your crank sensor resistance should be between 612-748 Ohms. The "air" gap between any of the four reference points on the crank pulley(the four bumps on the pulley located at TDC,+90deg +180deg and +270deg)and the crank sensor should be between 0.4-1.0mm adjustable by the fixing screws?I think! This gap is best measured with non metalic feeler blades as the crank sensor is magnetic. Best of luck. :D

[MaZ]

EVO92: thanks for the reply (finally :D)
I haven't actuallt measured the pressure but from the smell of fuel from the engine I'd say there is fuel getting pumped in... I'll check the pressure just to be sure. tnx for the link as well, I've had it and lost it before... :wink:

andyvilly: THANK YOU! Finally something real and not just numbers for special factory tools. :D

Edit: now I know why I lost the link. The people who coded that forum must have been retarded. :x

[MaZ]

Right, I'm focusing my attention on the temp sensor for the ECU, seems to be broken, no reading at all when trying to measure resistans. so this is interpreted as very cold right?
Are there no limp-home mode in the Grale ECU programs? Very strange...

Cranked the car like a madman today and I got it running for a while (5 sec) but only on like 2 cylinders and backfiring and such. The exhaust smelled VERY rich...

So, waddaya think?

[andyvilly]

hi maz, the temp sensor should have a varying resistance depending on actual temperature! if there is an open circuit the ecu will substitute for a pre-set value.In theory if your plugs are "dry" you should be able to start the car! but it will probably cough out loads of black smoke couse the ecu aint sure whats going on! Dont know any proper values yet but am trying to find some! Best of luck!!!!! 8)

[MaZ]

Temp sensor changed, still no-go. :x

I'm starting to suspect the Immobilizer that was fitted to the car while it was in the UK. It's an AutoWatch Touchkey Immobilizer unit. I got all the documentation but thats no help.

The weirdness got weirder today when I played around a bit, sometimes there isn't even the slightest sign of a spark present ans sometimes when I crank the pump won't run. Very intermittent function.

Frustrating!

[A1.6HPE]

Hello,
This sounds like a problem I had with a Prisma. the wires to the temp sensor had a break so the ecu thought that the engine was cold and gave full richness to the fuel mixture. Easily fixed by re-wiring. The symptoms of a strong smell of fuel and rough running when it died tie in with my situation.
However the temp sensor should have a resistance of about 7,000 ohms when cold.
Have you checked that there are sparks?

Good luck, Leo

[A1.6HPE]

Meant to mention my web site:

http://www.lancia.fsnet.co.uk/mag_mar.htm

Leo

[MaZ]

Found the problem tonight, one of the teeth on the crankshaft pulley had broken off! 8O
No wonder it had timing problems...

McGyvered it by putting a bolt in place of the tooth, the engine fired up right away. :D

Thanks everybody, help is always apretiated.

[andyvilly]

:D Hi maz!!! I,m back off hols now.if you can try bypassing the imobilizer circuits,there are usually up to 3 "cuts" and after locating the main unit and tracing the wiring it will be dead easy to temporerily bypass the unit. After that if you still have no joy giz a shout and i,ll try to find some more ECU info out. Good luck!!!!!!