2 Beta Block for Scorpion

[PAV]

Hi Team:

I have a 2L BETA block.
Can someone direct me toward the modifications which need to be done to the block such that the Beta Engine will fit my Scorpion.

Have a 2L block out of a Fiat Spider too; however, it is in rough shape.

So I will go with the Beta.

Am on the way to making a 2L FI Scorpion - Future Turbo.

Thanks!

pv2

[Frezer]

I installed a Beta i.e. (however without the injection, that may become a future project) block in my monte, it's very easy.

The only adaptation you have to do is making it possible to fit the engine mount that is located near the right shock absorber/under the exhaust manifold. You have to saw off an engine support that protrudes from the block because the montecarlo engine mounting bracket has all fixing points on one plane.

Hope this is helpful.

[PAV]

Every time I look at that marvel of technology, I wonder why they could not have figured out an Aluminum Block....!

Thanks for the Advise on Beta-->Monte engine transplant!!

[Timo04]

Every time I look at that marvel of technology, I wonder why they could not have figured out an Aluminum Block....!

Hi PAV,

I'm sure that they (Aurelio Lampredi and his staff) had it "figured out" with regards to the aluminum vs cast iron block. I expect some factors like cost and reliability come into play, especially with an engine that was designed to be mass produced.

In addition to the Fiat twin cam we hold so near and dear to our hearts also keep in mind that during the same vintage of the 60's/'70's some outstanding engines came out of Italy built with cast iron blocks. The V4 as used in the Lancia Fulvia is one example and the Ferrari designed, Fiat built V6 as used in the Dino-Ferrari 208/246 is another example.

Kind regards,

[PAV]

yes in total agreement and thanks for the addtional pieces.
That Dino is a real screamer esp once they worked the buggs out in the later models.

Have fun Timo

[SubGothius]

You may have an easier time rehabbing that FIAT block rather than modifying the Beta lump, as I seem to recall the Scorpicarlos actually used a FIAT block rather than the Beta block, so your engine mounts should bolt right on as-is (can someone check me on this?). This would also give you an excuse to rebuild the FIAT engine with HC pistons, maybe an overbore... :twisted:

[Frezer]

I also heard the Fiat block is a straight fit. But the modification needed on the Beta block is also done within an hour.

I would opt for the one in the best condition.

[sprintcarfan]

The following is an excerpt from a 2L Beta swap article I got somewhere, the LanciaScorpion Yahoo group maybe? I can post the whole document if it's legal. I don't know who the original author is. Ray McNairy possibly.

____________________________
Details
The five main differences between the 1.8 and 2L are block-higher deck- crankshaft, rods, cam belt cover and cam belt. Pistons are interchangable as are the flywheel, seals, aux. shaft, all bearings, crank pulley, oil pump and pan. Crank thrust shims are on the center main in the 1.8 and rear main for the Beta 2L, same shim. The 1.8L Scorp. oil pump gasket is the same as the 2L not the 1.8L FIAT. 2L Beta blocks require cutting off the drivers CV joint mount boss approx .83" and some grinding for front motor mount clearance while some 2L 124/131 blocks fit as is.
Check that the front motor mount plate has the correct mount holes when using a FIAT block. The oil filter blocks are interchangeable and you should use the one that fits your accessories.
All late starters fit if you drill out the center bolt hole for the scorp. alignment bushing.
Use the scorp. water pump as it is unique. Beta pumps fit but have a thinner impeller. There is no real tricks to re-building a twin cam but i will include some hints that helped me. Get a good manual that has all the timing and torque info.
_____________________________

[Will]

Check your PM, I responded with particulars. You want the Beta block, modify the mount, change to FIAT exhaust tower/cam/dizzy if your Beta is block mount (carby).

Water pumps: John is correct about the water pumps, however the scorpion pump is getting harder to find and the Beta pump is serviceable for a stock cooling system unless you are racing, in which case you will actually PREFER the Beta pump IMO, but coupled with a dual pass radiator ( one radiator hose swaps sides at the front of the car).

[Frezer]

Probably not much of a help for you guys in the US, but the Monte/Scorpion pump is the same as the one used in the Beta VX cars.

[PAV]

So am OK on the waterpump.
One of the mirifiori.com friends of mine, Mark S. did a very nice job pulling out the fried Beta water pump and installing the correct impeller model.

I have all the MH bipass bits to put the thermostat in the head along with Silicone Hoses.

This is going to be a FI'd Megasquirt, Turbo with .030 + low compression pistons (hopefully forged) and Total Seal Rings, O-ringed Block with all the nice machine shop goodies.

Balanced assembly for sure.

So I will perhaps be selling off my 2 Weber Carb/ Manifold setups for 1 for Beta and 1 for Montecarlo no external linkages.

Will be missing that dual DCNF sound; however, considering I have to pass emissions and want the Xtra HP.

BR,

Paul

[Will]

By O-ringing the block do you mean Wills rings or wire rings? If the former, what are you using for a head gasket, and where did you find small enough Wills rings, and if the latter, why the heck would you do that? You can buy a nice Integrale 8V turbo gasket.

[John Allen]

why the heck would you do that? You can buy a nice Integrale 8V turbo gasket.

Actually, you would want the Volumex gasket, not the Integrale 8v. I have an Integrale/Thema in my stash and, since that engine is a 'reverse flow', the coolant openings are all screwed up for the 'normal' Scorpion engine. The much larger holes would be on the 'intake' side of a Scorpion and the progression from smallest to largest would be opposite (the Integale has the water outlet on the bellhousing end of the head) so the coolant would tend to flow right up from the waterpump and out the head.

The Spesso Volumex can handle up to 20psi without problems. Too bad they are such huge $$$s.

Its too bad it won't work for me. It is a REALLY nice piece, heavy fire rings with tie back cross strapping between cylinders....