Fulvia 1.6 HF on E-bay.it

[Timo04]

Greetings,

I've seen these cars on E-bay.it for sometime now. Does anybody happen to know the history of them and if they are genuine 1.6 HF's (2nd series?)? Please see E-bay item #'s 290193478341 & 260199118872.

Thanks in advance,

[ncundy]

First one looks like an S2 1600. It has the right "stance", the lightweight seats and no door lights - although the black wheel arch flares are additions (only fitted to the S1).A picture of the engine would be good ! The second is a 1300 with a 1600 engine in by the sounds of it. Certainly the bodyshell, suspension and interior are 1300 (standard interior, clock not oil temp gauge etc).

[1,6 HF]

Full marks to Neil on both cars. The second car is clearly an S2 1,3S with a 1,6 engine transplant, and the seller doesn't seem to be hiding this in any way.

The first car does indeed appear to be an S2 HF1600, with the nonstandard items Neil mentioned. It would originally have had bumpers, which have been removed to give it an S1 look (same with the black arches); this also accounts for the tacked-on turn signals. But along with the stance and missing door jamb lights, it has a plain rear bench--more evidence pointing to it being a real S2 HF. Odd, though, that there's no picture of the engine compartment.

[Timo04]

Here is another 1.6 HF on E-bay.it

See item number: 300162233195

Perhaps more original than the 1.6HF example listed above?

Other than the yellow valve cover, which can obviously be reproduced, is there anyway to tell in the photos if a 1.6 engine is installed? Also is the 1.6HF not supposed to have turn signals,
what/where are the "tacked on turn signals"?

This is a great learning experience for me.

Thanks so much,

[ncundy]

Ah, a rather better engine shot for us internet "experts" to flex our muscles :)

the giveaway on any 1600 engine is the distributor cap:

1600's have vertical posts for the leads (as a beta), as this one has
1300's turn through 90 degs and come out facing the head

This looks like a genuine (albeit modified 1600 S2). The carbs and inlet manifold are not standard.

Ed will let you in on the indicators !

[1,6 HF]

Neil's got it again (unsurprisingly). This one does appear to be a real S2 HF1600 with a reproduction Gp. 4 intake manifold and 45 Dell'ortos with curved velocity stacks. I can't pretend to have any problem with that; substitute 40 DCOE Webers, and you've got the set-up on my Fanalone.

The steering wheel is a 2-spoke Sparco, which is close but not identical to the classic 'Sandro Munari' 2-spoke Ferrero steering wheels that were a homologation option in period (and still available).

The S2 HF came with bumpers, which have been removed here, and the brackets covered with the same stainless 'teardrops' that the Fanalone had. On the S2s, however, the turn signals ('indicators' to the Brits) were incorporated into the bumpers. Therefore, remove the bumpers and you lose the turn signals/indicators. The solution that the factory came up with for the Fulvia Monte Carlo, and that has been adopted by the S2 HF owners who remove the bumpers, is a pair of horizontal add-on turn signal bars just to the outside of the 'teardrops'. They're really just sort of stuck on--not very well incorporated physically or visually--which is why I referred to them as 'tacked-on'.

[Timo04]

Thanks so much Neal & Ed for the enlightening/helpful Fulvia information! This is like a classroom/buying guide on Fulvias.

How about this rosso 1.3S Sport see E-Bay.it item number: 320203602386

I guess this car is supposed to be a first series, an "early car" as some call it.

From the photos in this auction can we tell if it has a 1.3 or 1.6 engine fitted? Looks like the distributor cap has what appears to be vertical post. Thanks again!

[1,6 HF]

Tim,

That 1,3S Sport is just what it appears to be--it's a 1,3L engine. The distributor has a flat top with the leads at 90 degrees. If you look closely you'll see that the distributor itself is angled and the leads are comming from the side--not the top.

In any case, it's not that early; this is the third variant of the S1 Sport. The first 202 cars (818.132) were 1,2 liter all aluminum, and the next +/-1,578 cars (818.332) were 1,3 liter (engine type 818.302), the first 475 of which were all aluminum.

This one's an 818.362, with a steel body and a 1,3S engine (engine type 818.303). About 1900 of these were made.

[Timo04]

Tim,

That 1,3S Sport is just what it appears to be--it's a 1,3L engine. The distributor has a flat top with the leads at 90 degrees. If you look closely you'll see that the distributor itself is angled and the leads are comming from the side--not the top.

In any case, it's not that early; this is the third variant of the S1 Sport. The first 202 cars (818.132) were 1,2 liter all aluminum, and the next +/-1,578 cars (818.332) were 1,3 liter (engine type 818.302), the first 475 of which were all aluminum.

This one's an 818.362, with a steel body and a 1,3S engine (engine type 818.303). About 1900 of these were made.

Ed,

As always thanks for the excellent information. One really has to know their engine and chassis numbers with these cars!

Do you happen to know if the later series steel bodied cars are any more or less prone to rust than the early aluminum bodied cars? I have heard (perhaps it's just another urban myth) that where the aluminum body comes into to direct contact with the steel chassis that rust & corrosion can abound more easily than on an all steel car. This seems to make some sense from a Chemistry standpoint of dissimilar metals, ect.

Having asked this question I fully understand, and have direct experience, that most all vintage cars made from the 70's/60's/'50's period and older, have primitive if any, corrosion preventive technology built in.

Take care and have a good one,

[1,6 HF]

Tim

There's not really much mystery to these cars. Like anything else, it's just a matter of doing one's homework. There are plenty of good, accessible reference sources.

Obviously, any steel-bodied car will be more prone to rust than an aluminum-bodied one. However, it's no myth that the Zagato-built aluminum cars are indeed vulnerable to galvanic action between the aluminum panels and any steel they touch. The bodywork was typically built with some isolating material, but this tends to fail over the years, and aluminum will always lose an electrolytic battle with steel--the aluminum corrodes. The same is true for any car built by Touring using their 'superleggera' technique of aluminum panels over a small steel tube framework.

But I wouldn't necessarily rate this as a worse problem than rust on a steel-bodied car. As always, environmental factors will equally affect either rust or galvanic action; moisture and salt will accelerate both, while warm dry air will retard both. And any coating that excludes moisture (paint, waxoyl) will tend to prevent oxidation and electrolysis.

However, having more to do with structural strength than corrosion, the aluminum Zagato cars do have a reputation for being far more fragile than the steel-bodied versions. And they weren't really much lighter. That said, they do seem to have achieved more of a 'cult' status--there's just something about an alloy body...

BTW, if you want to see the steel frame of an aluminum Fulvia Sport without its body panels, you can see this at http://www.verelancia.com/ ,
on the home page where Vere is discussing constructing replicas of the Fulvia Sport Competitizione.

[Timo04]

Tim There's not really much mystery to these cars. Like anything else, it's just a matter of doing one's homework. There are plenty of good, accessible reference sources.

Yes indeed, the Fulvia & Flavia book by Wim H.J. Oude Weernink is a good place to start.